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[原创-历史] 在古代中国,外国人受到了怎样的对待?

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发表于 2019-6-2 10:32:48 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 龙腾网翻译版务 于 2019-6-4 09:22 编辑 龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com

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原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:跑龙套 转载请注明出处
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How were foreigners treated in Ancient China?

在古代中国,外国人受到了怎样的对待?



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原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:跑龙套 转载请注明出处
论坛地址:http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-486365-1-1.html

Feng Xian, former Research Associate at Eurasian Center (2017-2018)
It's a long story but I'll make it short for you:
1: if foreigners well behaved, it would be a matter of time for them to assimilate. Examples would be Southern Xiongnu, Xianbei, Turkic, Shatuo(Western Turkic), Goguryeo, Iranian, viet, Yamato, Khitan who were fully assimilated into Han after they arrived.

这个说来话长,但是我会简短说明一下:
1、如果外国人表现良好,那么他们被同化是迟早的事。比如南方的匈奴人,鲜卑,突厥,高句丽,伊朗人,越南人,日本人以及契丹人,在他们抵达中国后都完全融入汉人。



Mongolian also once faced 90 percent population deduction when it attacked Qing dynasty in 18th century. Hui once suffered 95 percent population deduction after it attempted to set up an Islamic state by jihad in China in 19th century.
Due to the uniqueness of Confucianism and history oriented ideology, foreigners who wanna settle here would be very respected and treated equally as long as they assimilated. If they didn't, it's gonna be problematic for them in the long run.
And when I say assimilation, I mean it by incorporating their culture into the Han culture rather than being swallowed. A lot of dance, music, arts, martial arts, Buddhism, family names that are considered traditional in China are from the foreigners who assimilated into Han identity.

18世纪蒙古人攻击清朝时自己也损失了90%的人口。
由于儒家思想和面向历史的意识形态的独特性,来中国定居的外国人只要愿意同化都会受到尊重和平等对待。如果他们不愿意融入,那么他们就会面临长期的问题。
当我说同化时,我的意思是说将自己的文化同汉人文化融合,而不是被汉人文化吞并。很多的舞蹈,音乐,艺术,武术,佛教,家庭姓名等等被认为是中国传统事物的东西其实都是来自于与汉人同化的外国人。

Benjamin R Williams
Very nice summary of everything. Although, one thing it makes me wonder about - if there was this expectation inherent within their culture that foreigners make a concerted effort assimilate in to Chinese norms, why was the same not reciprocated by the many generations of Chinese diasporas who would most often form their own cultural enclaves within the foreign lands instead of integrating with them as you point to non-Han ethnic groups doing here?

你总结得很好。但是我有一点想不通的是,既然中国文化中一直都期望外国人可以融入中国文化,那为什么在海外的海外华人只愿意形成自己的小圈子而不努力融入当地文化呢?

Eward Ho
The idea wasn't that minorities had a responsibility to assimilate into the majority, the idea was that Han culture was better than non-Han culture. Minorities in China were still able to retain their own identities, language, and religion if they chose to anyway, there were probably just more opportunities for them if they adopted Han culture.
Nowadays there is a certain amount of assimilation that Overseas Chinese undergo in the countries they live in, but they won't give up their own culture unless it happens naturally over the course of multiple generations. That's probably a lot like the kind of assimilation that minorities in Ancient China went through.

不是说少数族裔有义务融入多数族裔,而是说汉人文化比非汉人文化好。中国的少数族裔依然可以保留自己的身份认同,语言,和宗教,如果他们采用了汉文化,他们会拥有更多机会。
如今海外华人也在一定程度上融入了当地国家,但是他们不会放弃自己的文化,除非经过几代人的时间渐渐发生。这很像古代中国的少数族裔所经历的。

Wong Jat-Lam
Please cite your source about the Christians, Jews and Arabs trying to control Canton before they were slaughtered in the Yangzhou massacre in 760. I see no mention of that.

你凭什么说在公元760年前在扬州被大屠杀之前这些基督徒,犹太人和阿拉伯人想要控制广州啊?有什么依据吗?

Nettuno Rossi
and what about those who phisically destroyed chinese and controlled them for centuries? Qing were not chinese for instance and we can say the culture you have now is not pure Han but a mix between han and those who ruled on han

还有摧毁了中国并控制了中国几个世纪的那些人呢?比如清不是中国人。你们现在的文化不是纯种的汉人文化,而是汉文化和统治汉人的外族文化混合在一起的文化。

Feng Xian
What's the evidence of Qing weren't Chinese?

你凭什么说清不是中国人?



But through the Zhou dynasty, the 楚Chu in the south were considered a people apart, and there were all sorts of minorities all over. There still are. So if you’re talking about Ancient China, the question is practically meaningless.

但是在整个周朝期间,南方的楚被认为是与众不同的人,而且拥有各种的少数族裔。现在还是。所以如果你谈论的是古代中国的话,这个问题基本上是毫无意义的。



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发表于 2019-6-2 11:02:03 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2019-6-2 11:03:30 | 显示全部楼层
Very nice summary of everything. Although,one thing it makes me wonder about - if there was this expectation inherentwithin their culture that foreigners make a concerted effort assimilate in toChinese norms, why was the same not reciprocated by the many generations ofChinese diasporas who would most often form their own cultural enclaves withinthe foreign lands instead of integrating with them as you point to non-Hanethnic groups doing here?
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com你总结得很好。但是我有一点想不通的是,既然中国文化中一直都期望外国人可以融入中国文化,那为什么在海外的海外华人只愿意形成自己的小圈子而不努力融入当地文化呢?龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
只有低级文明学习高级文明,哪有倒过来的道理。
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龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com我不争气的大表弟就算是崇洋媚外到极点了,到了美国也根本不想融入,他们大学生聚会玩什么:倒立喝酒,往杯子里弹乒乓球,弹不进去就罚喝酒,然后掰手腕喝酒,吸大麻喝酒,端着纸杯酒尬聊喝酒,喝醉了就往外砸酒瓶……我弟说根本没兴趣融入进去啊,除非是低心智酒鬼,不然根本感觉不到乐趣。


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发表于 2019-6-2 15:18:35 | 显示全部楼层
喂老虎可还行
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发表于 2019-6-2 18:13:08 龙腾移动网页版 | 显示全部楼层
龟甲就是南太平洋?这傻屌没见过乌龟?
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发表于 2019-6-3 23:26:40 | 显示全部楼层
原来上古时候,黑人都喂老虎了,我说中国怎么没黑人捏~~~~~~~~~~~~龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
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发表于 2019-6-4 07:06:45 龙腾移动网页版 | 显示全部楼层
来个纯种日耳曼瞧瞧
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发表于 2019-6-4 08:45:32 | 显示全部楼层
这个没有色的皮一知半解就学人家装,感到有一点恶心
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发表于 2019-6-4 23:42:56 龙腾移动网页版 | 显示全部楼层
想要在古代中国看到黑人,那还真不是容易的事情,毕竟我们不缺人,阿拉伯人搞贩奴没赚头,而且黑人大概没法游泳到广州。不过文献上确实记载过万历朝鲜战争期间,明军有一位来自东非的黑人士兵,他是被佛朗机人带到中国,后来因缘际会加入了明军,被朝鲜人记住。
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