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[原创-其它] 面对非议,瑞尔森大学取消小组讨论校园言论自由

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发表于 2017-9-13 15:52:31 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
Facing pushback, Ryerson University cancels panel discussion on campus free speech
面对非议,瑞尔森大学取消小组讨论校园言论自由

The event was slated to feature controversial speakers including U of T professor Jordan Peterson and journalist Faith Goldy, who works for the far-right Rebel Media




【日期】2017年8月16日

【连接】http://nationalpost.com/news/can ... 3-b10d-003e1c348c44

【备注】59条评论   无需翻墙   无敏感词

【全文】



Ryerson University has canceled a panel discussion called “The Stifling of Free Speech on University Campuses” following pushback from activists who said the event was giving a platform to fascists.
瑞尔森大学最近取消了一个名为“大学被扼杀言论自由”的小组讨论活动。一些活动者认为该活动为法西斯主义者们提供了一个表达的平台,表示抗议。

The event, which was set for August 22, was slated to feature controversial speakers including University of Toronto psychology professor Jordan Peterson, who rose to prominence after refusing to use students’ preferred pronouns, and journalist Faith Goldy, who works for the far-right Rebel Media. Behavioural scientist Gad Saad and psychologist Oren Amitay rounded out the roster.
这个活动原定于八月22日举行,并邀请了一些受争议的知名人物前来演讲,其中包括多伦多大学的心理学教授Jordan Peterson,因公开反对中性人称谓而备受关注的、以及为右翼反对派媒体工作的记者Faith Goldy。行为学家Gad Saad和心理学家Oren Amitay也在邀请名单之上。


Jordan Peterson speaks to a group at the Carleton Place Arena on Thursday, June 15, 2017. Darren Brown / Ottawa Citizen/Ottawa Sun
2017.6.15,Jordan Peterson在卡尔顿竞技场发表演讲。

Ryerson Communications Director Michael Forbes cited safety concerns as the reason the event was shut down.
瑞尔盛大学的联络主管Michael Forbes称,该活动由于安全问题取消。

“After a thorough security review, the University has concluded that Ryerson is not equipped to provide the necessary level of public safety for the event to go forward,” he wrote in an emailed statement. “In light of recent events, Ryerson University is prioritizing campus safety.”
他在邮件中写道,“在进行了彻底的安全审查后,校方认为无法为该活动提供必要的公共安全保障。”“鉴于最近发生的一些事件,瑞尔森大学决定以校园安全为先。”

Christeen Elizabeth, one of the organizers of a planned rally against the event — “No Fascists in Our City!”, the Facebook event page for which originally featured a header photo of a crossed-out swastika, before the photo was changed Wednesday — said it was important to speak out against what she sees as violence against oppressed groups.
计划对该讨论会进行抗议活动的其中一位组织者,Christeen Elizabeth表示,“我们的城市不允许法西斯存在!“他们FaceBook的页面上以一个打了叉的万字旗作为头像,后来在周三换掉了它。Elizabeth在页面上声称,把所见的对被压迫群体施加的暴力公布出来,意义重大。

“Transphobia is violence, Islamophobia is violence. Violence is contextual,” she said. “We can’t be complicit in this.”
“对变性者、穆斯林的歧视是一种暴力行为。而暴力会产生连锁反应,”她说。“我们不应参与其中。”

Elizabeth said activists inundated Ryerson with calls and emails protesting the panel. She said she also collaborated with the school’s student union, who added to the pressure.
伊丽莎白表示,活动者们对讨论小组的抗议电话和邮件像海潮一样淹没了Ryerson。她还与参与施压的学校学生会合作。
It's a time to bloody well hope that everyone takes a deep breath and walks backwards a little bit from the edge of the abyss
在事态变得不可收拾之前,现在是让每个人都冷静下来各退一步的时候了。

Peterson said the cancellation is “an indication of the crazy absurdity that characterizes the current political situation. There’s an element of surrealism to it.”
另一方面,Peterson则认为讨论活动的取消“表明了当前政治形势的疯狂荒谬”,超现实得如同小说情节一般。

But he has increased sympathy for a safety argument, he said, given the “inflamed rhetoric” the protesters used.
但他又表示鉴于抗议者们使用了“愤怒的言辞”,他对“安全问题”的说法可以理解。

“I think there’s no excuse for what they’re doing, with the Nazi symbolism. It’s very, very dangerous to engage in that kind of casual vilification,” he said.
“我认为他们的行为根本无法解释,这样随便地污蔑他人为“纳粹”是很危险的做法”他说。

The group organizing the panel was thinking of delaying the event themselves because of the recent violence at the white supremacist march in Charlottesville.
因为最近在夏洛茨维尔由白人至上主义者引发的一系列暴力事件,讨论小组也正在考虑推迟自己的活动。

“We’re drifting into a scenario of increased polarization, and it’s not an advisable time to contribute to that, wittingly or unwittingly,” Peterson said.
“我们的社会正在加剧两极分化,不管你是有意还是无意,在这种时候给局势加火添油非常不理智。”彼得森说。

Elizabeth said she might have been a bit hasty to put the word “fascism” in the event title, but defended its use.
伊丽莎白亦不讳言,用“法西斯主义”这个词来形容这次活动可能过于轻率,但仍然为之辩护。

“The seeds of fascism, that’s how they start. It starts with this ‘othering’ of people,” she said. “Regardless of whether or not they themselves are preaching strict fascist ideology, who are they preaching to?”
“法西斯主义的种子,就是从排斥特定人群开始生根发芽,”她说。“无论他们是不是在宣传严格意义上的法西斯思想,他们是在向谁宣传呢?”

Elizabeth said she has received death threats as a result of protesting the panel. She sent a screenshot of one of them to the National Post, which said, “Im coming after your kids you bitch. You just wait.” She said her step-mother has received similar threats.
伊丽莎白说表示因组织这次抗议活动,她受到了死亡威胁。在她给国家邮报发送的一张截图上写着:“我要干掉你的孩子,碧池!”。她的继母也受到了类似的威胁。

“It really just goes to show what kind of calibre of people they are that they would do something like that,” Elizabeth said.
伊丽莎白说:“这就清楚地表明了他们是什么人,会做什么事。”。
The seeds of fascism, that's how they start. It starts with this 'othering' of people
法西斯主义的种子就是从排斥特定人群开始生根发芽

What happens next, Peterson said, “depends on how rapidly the positive feedback loop between extremists on both ends of the political spectrum expands, and how effectively sensible people in the middle are at dampening it.
Peterson说:“接下来会发生什么,要看两派极端分子间不断增加强度的循环对抗扩大的速度有多快,以及中立派的智者们能否有效地将其抑制。

“It’s like people are batting back and forth a bomb that gets bigger every time someone hits it,” he said. “They’re not attending to the fact that with each mischaracterization they alienate a larger part of the population. It’s a very bad idea.”
“就好像两个人用炸弹来打网球,每次有人击中它的时候,炸弹就会变得更大。他们不承认,每个污名化对手的行为会使他们离真正的民众意见越来越远。这实在不可取。”

Peterson repeatedly echoed U.S. President Donald Trump’s assertion that ideologues on both sides were responsible for violence.
Peterson多次引用美国总统唐纳德·特朗普的说法,称意识形态对立的双方都应为引起的暴力事件负责。

“It’s a time to bloody well hope that everyone takes a deep breath and walks backwards a little bit from the edge of the abyss,” he said, but noted that now was not the time to discuss the “sins of the radical left.”
“在事态变得不可收拾之前,现在是让每个人都冷静下来各退一步的时候了。要讨论‘激进左派的罪恶’的话,现在并不是时候。”

“The time right now is for denunciation of what occurred in Charlottesville,” he said.
“当务之急应该是去谴责夏洛茨维尔发生的事情,”他说.

Though the panel is no more, Elizabeth is still planning a rally. She said she’s reaching out to labour groups and looking to change the tone from anti-fascism to pro-diversity — “sort of celebrating the people that this forum panel was targeting.”
尽管讨论小组已经不复存在,伊丽莎白仍在筹划一次集会。她说,她正在与劳工组织接触,并打算将集会主题从反法西斯改为促进多元化——“可以说是被讨论组所针对的人们举行的庆祝”。

Peterson said he’ll talk with the other would-be panelists about potentially using another venue, though he’s still not sure the timing is right for the talk.
而另一方面,尽管不能确定举行讨论的时机是否恰当,彼得森说他将和其他可能的小组成员商量能否使用另一个场所举行讨论。

“We’re going to figure out what we can do that’s least harmful,” he said.”Let’s start with that.”
“我们要找出我们能做的什么是最无害的,”他说,“从这个开始。”

【评论】
Yu Brown · 12 hrs +70
Perfect Example of the self-righteous dictatorship of the left. Silence a legitimate professor that holds “unacceptable” views.
让一位持有“不当观点”的教授闭嘴——真是教科书般的左派独裁。

The left quashing free speech, forcing media, companies and even universities to stifle dissent, be eco-chambers of the lefty ideology. And then they wonder why people radicalize!!
But … but … they “love freedom of speech” … lol … suuuuuure !
左派压制言论自由,迫使媒体、公司甚至大学作为左撇子的意识形态温房,消除一切异见,但是他们不知道为什么人们激进!!
不过…不过…他们“热爱言论自由”…哈哈…我信了!

Tim Boyle · 11 hrs +15
Agreed Yu, though it sounds like even Peterson was agreeing that now is not the time and Ryerson not the place to conduct the discussion. It is truly sad that although the Left appears well represented on the panel their activists seek not to win the debate but to end it peremptorily.
同意Yu的看法,虽然看来连Peterson本人也同意现在不适合进行讨论,也不适合在瑞尔森大学举行讨论。左派们的理念很能体现这个讨论主题,但他们不去尝试赢得辩论,而是强行取消活动,真是令人难过。

Kelly Stilling · 11 hrs +20
Well said....C'mon people! Stifling speech is more Nazi/Marxist! Allow this man to speak and be free to debate, discuss & understand each other. Please don't destroy the freedom to think otherwise.
说的不错……大家要搞清楚!钳制言论是纳粹或马克思主义者的做法!【译:?】一个人应该可以自由地说话、辩论、讨论和理解彼此。请不要理所当然地破坏自由。

Claude DeRoche · 10 hrs +1
My father got 13 bullets in his body in World War II
to combat these nazï b....ards why bring them back!
我父亲在二战中中了十三枪。
如果要与纳粹杂种们对抗到底的话,现在为什么又把他们弄回来!

Brian Vaselenak · Fort McMurray, Alberta · 10 hrs +4
So True Yu. The Loony Lefties hate Free Speech. Unless it suits their Agenda.
说得对极了。除非刚好符合他们的心意,否则左派偏执狂们仇视一切言论自由。

Vladimir Smejkal · 9 hrs
@Kelly Stilling Hitler was eventually allowed to speak and the rest is history...
希特勒最终获得了发言的自由,后来的历史我们都知道了……


Jesika Voit · Calgary, Alberta · 9 hrs +4
Vladimir Smejkal you set a dangerous precedent comparing this to that of Nazi Germany. It shows your complete disregard for polarization and it's inherent impact on society.
Vladimir Smejkal你将这个事情与纳粹德国相提并论,是作了一个危险的先例。这显示了你对两极分化以及它对社会的内在影响的全然漠视。

Doug McLeod · Victoria, British Columbia · 8 hrs +2
Vladimir Smejkal That's why accepting it now is a mistake. Except for you Hitler types of course.
Vladimir Smejkal这就是这件事为什么不可接受的原因。当然了,除了你这种希特勒那一型的。

Norman Wells · 8 hrs
Claude DeRoche Which ones are you referring to?
Claude DeRoche 你说的纳粹混蛋具体是指?

Doug McLeod · Victoria, British Columbia · 8 hrs +1
Claude DeRoche "My father got 13 bullets in his body in World War II
to combat these nazï b....ards why bring them back!"

I reject completely that any rational person would admit to being your father. You have no idea who he is.
Claude DeRoche说,“我父亲在二战中中了十三枪。
如果要与纳粹杂种们对抗到底的话,现在为什么又把他们弄回来!”
任何有理性的人都不会承认是你的爹,所以你根本不知道你爹是谁。

Ceiteach Mac Mathúna · 2 hrs +1
Claude DeRoche Have you even listened to any of the people on this panel speak before? If you are going to claim they are "Nazi ba...rds", please provide evidence to back up your claim, or else you are no better than having extreme Nazi values yourself...
Claude DeRoche,你之前听过这个讨论组的人说的什么吗?如果一定要把他们称为“纳粹杂种”的话,就拿出你自己的证据来,否则只是证明了你才是纳粹……

Cole Jones · Works at Paper Street Soap Company · 53 mins +1
Claude DeRoche my grandfather fought the Nazis too you a$$. None of these people are Nazis.
Claude DeRoche,你这个*,我爷爷也打过纳粹,我可以担保这些人可不是纳粹。


Arturo Daly · 12 hrs +52
Ha ha, we will shut down the voice of the fascists by being fascists before they can be fascists. The glaring hypocrisy of the hysterical left.
哈哈,我们将会以法西斯的手段来遏制法西斯,虚伪得多么光明正大。

Claude DeRoche · 10 hrs +1
We should not opress neo nazï white suprematists,
we need to jail them, no matter what the Hïtler/Putin lovers think.
No need to repeat the errors in Germany in the 30's.
We won World War II didn't we?
It's no secret that president Putin and president Bannon
want to destroy the USA!
我们不应该压制这些新纳粹白人至上主义者,
而是要把他们关进监狱,无论希特勒跟普京的崇拜者们要怎么想。
不要重复30年代对德国犯下的错误。
我们不是赢得了第二次世界大战吗?
普京总统和班农总统想毁灭美国
已经不算什么秘密!
  

Glyn Lewis · Sherwood Park, Alberta · 11 hrs +9
Claude DeRoche Adolf Hitler very effectively shut down freedom of speech, so why would we cheer it 80 years later.
Claude DeRoche ,因为阿道夫希特勒有效地控制了言论自由,所以我们80年后要庆祝他的倒台。

Rick Edmonds · 11 hrs +14
Claude DeRoche take your meds and come back to reality.
Claude DeRoche,吃点药吧。

Kyle Anders · Waterloo, Ontario · 10 hrs +8
Claude DeRoche spoken like a true fascist.
Claude DeRoche看起来就是个铁杆法西斯。

Richard McIntyre · Ottawa, Ontario · 10 hrs +6
Claude DeRoche You're one gross, ugly cuck, Claude.
Claude DeRoche,你真是个恶心的傻鸟。

Winnie Holland · 9 hrs +2
Claude DeRoche so the panellists are nazis?? You are delusional.
Claude DeRoche,认为讨论组成员都是纳粹?你真是个妄想狂。

Everett Duncan · Austin, Texas · 8 hrs +2
Claude DeRoche Please seek out and return with anything, anything at all, offensive and disrespectful Peterson has said. Good luck with your journey.
Claude DeRoche,说话请拿出依据,什么依据都行,这可是那个混蛋Peterson说的,祝你好运。





Chris DiCesare · Hamilton, Ontario · 12 hrs +33
this has nothing to do with 'othering' fascism or any other derogatory phrasing - this all about stifling political dissent that is critical of ideas of the protestors nothing more nothing less - I wonder if they see the irony of their actions - the viccrat is alive and welll at Ryerson, but as I have read recently Ryerson has a problem with tolerance of voices they dont agree with - seems our SJWs are terrified of independent thinking and articulation of ideas
wonder if it isnt time to for an investigation into the fascism that exists in the adminsitration at Ryerson
这与排斥“法西斯主义”或其他贬义措辞无关,抗议者们完全是为了压制政治异见者——不知道他们能否看到自己行为的讽刺意义——viccrat本来在瑞尔森校园里好好地【译:viccrat没查明白,望指正】,但就我最近所知,瑞尔森似乎不能容忍异见的存在,看来社交媒体上的正义战士们似乎害怕独立思考与表达思想呢。
不知道现在适不适合去查一下瑞尔森大学官方里有没有法西斯呢。

Claude DeRoche · 11 hrs +1
Hitler said exactly that in the 30's with a consequence.
三十年代希特勒也是这么对人说的,引起了一些后果。

Glyn Lewis · Sherwood Park, Alberta · 11 hrs +5
@Claude DeRoche Hitler effectively shut down free speech!
@Claude DeRoche希特勒完全地掌控了言论!

Andrew Swan · 10 hrs +8
@Claude DeRoche I do not believe Hitler said anything about the administration at Ryerson University. I hereby call your bluff, sir.
@Claude DeRoche 我倒不信希特勒对瑞尔森大学校方有什么看法,你在瞎吹。

John Edward · 10 hrs +2
@Andrew Swan It's not a bluff, just a mindless troll being his usual a$$hole self.
@Andrew Swan 他不是在瞎吹,只是在进行一个脑残喷子的日常修养。

Everett Duncan · Austin, Texas · 8 hrs +1
@Claude DeRoche Really?! Prove it, go ahead and give us that exact quote or translation. Good luck with that.
@Claude DeRoche 是吗?证明一下,去找些具体的证据回来吧,祝你好运。


Dennis Egan · Works at Freedom 55er · 12 hrs +38
Ryerson should lose its status as a University and go back to being a Community College if it cannot manage to hold an adult discussion on the relevant issues of the day. C Elizabeth should get an F for providing rhetoric nonsense and nothing of substance in her argument against the event.
如果连就近日的热点展开一场成年人间的讨论都做不到的话,瑞尔森也不必自称大学了,还是做社区学院吧。C Elizabeth在这一系列的抗议活动中,凭借着花言巧语和空洞的虚言,可以拿一个”F”。

Claude DeRoche · 11 hrs +1
May be better to hold it in Moscow or SA (among friends).
A sword dance would be awesome.  :-)
讨论会可以考虑在莫斯科或者沙特阿拉伯举行(那里有更多的朋友)
还可以来场剑舞助助兴(笑)

John Edward · 9 hrs +3
Ryerson has never been a university except in official nomenclature
瑞尔森只是被官方命名为大学,其实从来就没够格。


Shawn Burstyn · U of Alberta · 12 hrs +25
No problem. As long as the agenda involves anti Israel or antiesemetic rhetoric, all is well on Ryerson campus.
没什么问题,只要校园议程包含反以色列或者反宗教修辞,瑞尔森校园一切安好。


Mo Jones · 12 hrs +30
So, alt-left fascism shuts down a perfectly legitimate discussion on free speech by intimidating our cowardly public leaders. The rule of law is dead. Fascism has already won.

Ryerson and Canada should be thoroughly ashamed of this action.
所以说,极左法西斯通过恐吓我们胆怯的公共领导人,结束了一场关于言论自由的完全合法的讨论。法治已死。法西斯主义已经赢了。
美国和加拿大应该为此羞愧。


Lewis Rossman · Ottawa, Ontario · 11 hrs +13
Ryerson University should be embarrassed and ashahed for caving in to the leftist fascists..Even discussing free speech is no longer acceptable if the speakers are not Right Thinking.. 1984 here we come..
瑞尔森大学应为向左派法西斯屈服而感到羞耻 ..如果演讲者没有“正确地思想”就不允许讨论言论自由……1984,我们来了……

John Edmonstone · West Hill Secondary School · 7 hrs +1
1984 here we are.
1984,我们到了。


Franco Prairie · Works at Self-Employed · 11 hrs +10
The media and the left are virtually at war with anyone who opposes the destruction of north american values, traditions and history.
Like islamic terrorist they're resorting to bring down statutes, monuments who causes them to retrieve to safe spaces.
What will they do next, bomb to pieces entire historical buildings, like their terrorists ISIS cousins did with ancient sacred sites?
Crazy times.
左派与媒体们实际上在与所有维护北美传统、历史和价值观的人交战。
像伊斯兰恐怖分子一样,他们运用法规,给将他们带到安全的地方的人们立碑。
他们接下来是不是会像ISIS炸掉古圣地那样去轰炸整座历史建筑?
真是疯狂的时代。


Doug McLeod · Victoria, British Columbia · 7 hrs +15
Simple solution - Director Michael Forbes gets fired. If a person running a University cannot guarantee free speech on it's very grounds, one of the most fundamental and principal requirements of a University he is clearly useless in that role. Leaving Forbes in that position is like keeping a pilot on that can't fly. Get rid of him and put someone in who can do the job. Happens every day in the real world. Simply punt him for cause and bring in someone who can do the job. A secondary benefit, would be that I'd be willing to bet that every other University Director in the Country would up their game to the same level almost immediately
我有一个简单的解决方法,就是把校主管Michael Forbes给炒了。言论自由是大学最基本也是最重要的要求之一,一个人经营管理大学却不能保证大学的言论自由,那就是摆设,留着他就像留着一个不会飞的飞行员一样,干脆把Michael Forbes推出去顶罪了事,再换一个能干事的人来。此外还有一个好处,就是可以让加拿大其他大学的主管们引以为戒。


Doug McLeod · Victoria, British Columbia · 11 hrs +19
"“The seeds of fascism, that’s how they start. It starts with this ‘othering’ of people,” she said.

Yes, because nothing fights fascism like stopping any discussion on or preventing ideas and speech from seeing the light of day that don't mirror your own. And nothing exacerbates the "othering of people" quite like suggesting that those who believe in free speech are Nazi's. A perfect example of Orwells "Doublespeak" but I'd be willing to think she is either too obtuse or too uneducated to even know what it is. You don't know whether to laugh at her imbecility or cry at the fact that she apparently doesn't understand that she is the problem - totalitarianism on the rise. 70 years ago we went to war against people like Christeen Elizabeth, now they are in our Universities.
她说:“法西斯主义的种子就是从排斥特定人群开始生根发芽,”。
是的,因为没有人会以压制异见的做法去反法西斯主义,这是最“排斥他人”的法西斯范例,而这些人正是乔治奥维尔所说的“两面派”。但我宁愿相信她出于无知并不知道自己在做什么。最让人感到哭笑不得的是,她正是自己所抗议的“大问题”。在70年前,我们与Christeen Elizabeth这类人斗争,而现在他们却成了我们的大学同学。

Vladimir Smejkal · 9 hrs
You morons have ideas no decent human being is interested in hearing, whence the ban. Live with it old man...
什么禁令,正常人类都不想听这些白痴的想法,忍着点吧,老古董…

John Edward · 9 hrs
Vladimir Smejkal If no one was interesting in hearing other ideas there would be no need to ban them. Live with it, child.
Vladimir Smejkal ,如果没人想听他人想法的话就无需禁止了,忍着点吧,小鬼。

Doug McLeod · Victoria, British Columbia · 8 hrs
Vladimir Smejkal When you achieve the intellect and knowledge to qualify you as a decent human being, give us a call. You're a long way from it yet.
Vladimir Smejkal 当你达到人类应有的最低限度的智能和知识的时候再来联系我们,现在还差得远呢。

Cole Jones · Works at Paper Street Soap Company · 58 mins
Vladimir Smejkal ah yes, Vladimir. The other board troll. Haven't seen you in a while, where have you been? Busy with your GRU handler?
Vladimir Smejkal 好啊,又一个论坛喷子。好久不见了,到哪去啦?领你的5卢布去了吗?


Jim Patterson · 11 hrs +9
.. another day of being embarrassed to say I am a Canadian!!
……又是让我羞于承认是加拿大人的一天!!

Vladimir Smejkal · 10 hrs
No need to be embarrassed, you're not a Canadian...
你并不是加拿大人,所以不用害羞……

Brian Vaselenak · Fort McMurray, Alberta · 10 hrs
Vladimir Smejkal you should move back to China

Vladimir Smejkal 你早点回中国吧(译:?)


Denis Barker · 11 hrs
Although I disagree with Peterson, she should not be barred from expressing her ideas in a public forum. Her critique of politically correct gender pronouns is particularly relevant given her gender ambiguous Christian name, Jordan.

尽管我不赞同Peterson的看法,但不应该禁止她在公共论坛上发表自己的言论。特别是她对政治正确的性别代词的批判非常重要,因为她那性别模糊的教名:Jordan。

Doug McLeod · Victoria, British Columbia · 8 hrs
Jordan Peterson is a male. Unconfused, evident, and outward, even dressing the part with no mental issues and recognized as one of the best minds in Canada. You should be so lucky.
Jordan Peterson可是个男性,有着清晰的头脑,有品位的穿着,还被认为是加拿大最聪明的人之一,你可没有那么幸运。

Steve White · Crusty SOB at Retired · 10 hrs
You must feel awfully stupid by now, eh?
你现在一定觉得自己很蠢吧?

Sandi Nickerson · 10 hrs +3
Doug McLeod, Denis knows full well that Peterson is a man, he's purposely misgendering him to make a silly point, not realizing that Peterson is on record saying he would willingly address a trans man as he and a trans woman as she. People like Denis don't listen to Peterson beyond headlines and regurgitated bs so he doesn't actually grasp Petetson's point beyond what he imagines it to be.

Doug McLeod, Denis很清楚Peterson是个男人,只是故意乱用称谓来表达他的傻瓜观点。他不知道Peterson曾表示乐意用“他”和“她”来称呼变形人。像Denis这样的人看媒体新闻只会看标题,而根本不去了解实际内容,所以要对他们想象中的Peterson观点狠喷一番。

Doug McLeod · Victoria, British Columbia · 8 hrs
Sandi Nickerson I fully realise that. I intended to make that clear in my statement but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Sandi Nickerson ,我完全了解这一点,也许在我的发言中没表现出来。

Denis Barker · 6 hrs
Sandi Nickerson When Peterson became the face of opposition to Bill C-16, she wandered into my bailiwick. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in her academic background, her professional or personal experience to lend legitimacy to her odious position that society would be harmed by extending legal protection against discrimination and criminal hatred to transgendered Canadians. She is nothing more than a girl with an opinion, without expertise, with respect to human rights, hate crime and gender identity. For the record, I'm at least as familiar with her work as a psychologist and media slut as anyone else here.


Sandi Nickerson ,当Peterson明确表示反对C-16法案的时候,我就盯上她了。这没什么大不了的,真没什么大不了——她的学术职业背景以及丰富的履历给了她一个可恶的合法地位,让她能扩展法律,保护那些针对变性者的歧视与犯罪,进而伤害社会而已。她只不过是一个在人权、仇恨犯罪和性别认同方面缺乏见解的女孩。我跟心理学家和无良媒体一样,完全了解她干了什么。

Cole Jones · Works at Paper Street Soap Company · 57 mins
Denis Barker sigh....


Denis Barker ,唉……

Carlo Cosolo · Richmond Hill, Ontario · 11 hrs +3
All I know is that I'm ashamed to say I went to Ryerson

我只知道我羞于承认在瑞尔森上过大学。

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs
And I'm proud I didn't. Mind you in my day, Tyerson was as well respected as "Trump University" or Rotten Ronnie's "Hamburger U", a place to learn secretarial skills. Probably is now, as well.
而我很高兴我不是。你要留意,有一天瑞尔森会像“川普大学”或者“麦当劳汉堡大学”一样,变成一个学习当小秘的好地方,也许现在已经是了。


Glyn Lewis · Sherwood Park, Alberta · 11 hrs +24
"Ryerson University has canceled a panel discussion called “The Stifling of Free Speech on University Campuses” following pushback from activists who said the event was giving a platform to fascists."

If someone knows of more ironic paragraph than this one, I'd like to see it.
“瑞尔森大学取消了一个名为‘’校园言论自由的沉寂‘’的讨论活动”                                              因为活动者抗议它给了法西斯主义者一个发言的空间“
还有比这更有讽刺的吗。


Eddie Sweet · Works at Retired · 11 hrs +6
Once again the lefty educational system folds to the alt-left.
左倾的教育系统又一次倒向了暴力左派。







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 楼主| 发表于 2017-9-13 15:53:22 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 黑色艺术 于 2017-9-14 16:32 编辑

Anthony Hulse · University of Calgary · 11 hrs +3
What makes this especially ironic is that Ryerson is famous for being the journalism college.http://www.ryerson.ca/programs/undergraduate/journalism/ "I think what makes Ryerson stand out, and certainly here in the School of Journalism, is our capacity to give students the experience to understand what they're doing. Everyone knows our reputation for hands-on learning, or what we call experiential learning, but that reputation is well-deserved. We make our students get out there and start interviewing people, start writing stories, start speaking truth to power."
Ann Rauhala
Associate Chair and Professor, Journalism
最讽刺的是,瑞尔森大学以其新闻学院闻名。http://www.ryerson.ca/programs/undergraduate/journalism/  
”我认为使瑞尔森新闻学院脱颖而出的是,我们有能力有经验让学生们了解自己在做什么。所有人都知道我们以在实践中学习而闻名,这种声誉是当之无愧的。我们让我们的学生走出校园,学会采访民众并撰写他们的故事,并学会对权力直言。”
Ann Rauhala                                                                                                                                           新闻系教授兼系副主任


Rick Edmonds · 10 hrs +8
The only sane voice in all this is Perterson. And according to the liberal progressive nut bars he is the problem. And they wonder why people are getting angry, just shut up sit in the corner and pay 50% plus of your wages so we have our agenda. I guess Champlain will be remove from our history books next. Maybe PET should be removed as well since his government opened 7 residential schools and remove his name from that airport in Montreal. And you can't see why people are getting angry, they shut this down because of violence. Would be from the people attending to hear what these people have to say, no it would be from the peace loving left telling people they can't speak their mind. What a bunch of hypocrites, the anger is going to build up and eventually get out of hand. Feel sorry for the younger generation, Canada will be a mess. Just waiting for Heritage Minister to come out with her new speech laws, fake news laws and our M103 committee still has to sit. Canada is working through some very difficult times and there is much more to come. I truly believe Trudeau has done much to polarize and divide this country and we are only 20 months in. Passports will be required at the Manitoba Ontario border by 2019.
在这一事件中,只有Peterson算得上理性,然而在那群“自由进步”狂人的眼里他却是大麻烦。他们不想弄清楚民众愤怒的缘由,只想要民众闭嘴乖乖坐着,并给他们50%以上的支持率以通过提案。我猜下一步就是要从历史书里删掉Champlain,也许还要加上PET,因为他的政府开了7所寄宿学校,并把他的名字从蒙特利尔机场的名字上取下来。他们用暴力阻止了讨论,还看不出来大家为什么感到气愤——是因为讨论会上要发表的冒犯言论,还是讨论会被强行阻止的这一事实?真是一群伪君子。愤怒会逐渐增强,最终失去控制。我真可怜年轻一代,因为加拿大将会越来越乱。干等着文化部部长出台几部关于演讲、关于假新闻的法律,而我们的M103委员会仍然晾在一边。加拿大正在经历一阵非常困难的时期,很多事还会陆续有来。我认为特鲁多为这个国家的分裂和分化做了很多,不出20个月,到2019,出入马尼托巴-安大略边境地区将需要护照。
(译注:Champlain是魁北克的建立者 ,PET没找到,疑似加拿大历史人物,望补充。M103是加拿大日前通过的反歧视法案,M103委员会负责对社会歧视的情况进行调查)


Taysse Redux · 10 hrs +3
“Regardless of whether or not they themselves are preaching strict fascist ideology, who are they preaching to?” In other words, even if you’re not a bona fide fascist pig yourself (though that's never sure), the people listening to you are most certainly fascist pigs. It’s not freedom of speech we’re opposed to, it’s freedom of listening. We’re just trying to weed out the listeners, not the speakers. Stalin couldn’t have said it any better.
“不管他们是否在宣传严格意义上的法西斯思想,他们又是在向谁宣传呢?”“换句话说,即使你自己不是一只真正的法西斯猪(尽管不能确定),听你说话的人肯定是法西斯猪。我们反对的不是言论自由,而是倾听的自由。斯大林说得好啊:我们只是在试图淘汰听众,而不是演讲者。


Joe Hvilivitzky · Chippawa, Ontario · 10 hrs +7
Faith Goldy and Jordan Peterson are now considered fascists? If I could find my Ryerson diploma (RTA '67) I'd send it back.
Faith Goldy和Jordan Peterson现在被认为是法西斯了吗?如果我能找到我的瑞尔森大学文凭(RTA传媒学院67年毕业)就把它还回去。

Vladimir Smejkal · 9 hrs
Chances are you don't have any diplomas...
你很可能并没有什么文凭……


Len Van Den Bosch · Plymouth University · 10 hrs +3
Liberals want fairness and justice. Liberals want income equality so everyone can have a good life. Why do liberals never talk about the unequal pay between public sector employees and private sector workers? Why the silence?
I think we know the reason, don't we.
自由主义者想要公平和正义。自由主义者希望收入平等,这样每个人都能过上好日子。为什么自由主义者从不谈论公共
部门雇员和私营部门工人之间的不平等薪酬?为什么对此沉默?
我想我们都知道。


Kyle Anders · Waterloo, Ontario · 10 hrs +8
Looks like the takeaway lesson from Charlottsville has been declared: free speech is no longer allowed. Good job ANTIFA, you've miraculously transformed into exactly what you (allegedly) opposed.
看来,在夏洛茨维尔发生的事给我们的启示已经表明:不再允许言论自由。干得漂亮,反法西斯者们,你已经奇迹般地变成了你的对立面。


Tom Steadman · Works at Self-Employed · 10 hrs +5
Egregious, spineless administrators. I am ashamed that my school would profess such mediocre thinking. Puts them on the notorious list alongside Laurier, McGill, Concordia, U of Ottawa and the rest of academic fear mongering.
校方又坏又懦弱。很惭愧我的母校竟然会声明这种差劲的思想。瑞尔森可以跟臭名昭著的劳瑞尔、麦吉尔、康考迪亚、渥太华及其他利益压倒学术的大学相提并论了。


Warren Yuill · 10 hrs +4
Nobody expected anything less than total capitulation from Ryerson.
所有人都希望瑞尔森大学投降。


Sandi Nickerson · 10 hrs +6
This discussion was going to be protested and shut down regardless, as they have been up until now, but the opportunists have jumped on Charlottesville in order to move the goalposts from tired claims of bigot and oppressor to fascist and Nazi, either too obtuse or too dense to realize one of the panelists they're lumping in with Nazis is himself Jewish. But hey, they can hoist that Soviet flag in the name of tolerance, I'm sure that will help them find the plot again. This would all be quite funny if it wasn't so asinine.
虽然撑到了现在,但这个讨论会无论如何都会在抗议下取消的。投机者们已经开始利用夏洛茨维尔的事,把口号从反对偏见与压迫转移成反法西斯了,虽说他们要么太钝要么太傻,以至于将一个犹太人形容为“纳粹”。但是嘛,他们大可以用宽容的名义升起一面苏联国旗,这一举措定能帮助他们发现另一宗“阴谋”——如果不是实在蠢到家了,其实倒还算满可笑的。


Vladimir Smejkal · 10 hrs
No need to let fascists, racists and cret!ns on the lose discuss anything. There is no controversy, no argument, no merit in it and therefore there is no bloody reason for it, just like there is no need to discuss the benefits of holocausts, reasons for outlawing racism, or pros and cons of shredding our Constitution. In this country freedom of speach has its legal and moral limits, racial discrimination is illegal and being a racist cry baby is not a virtue. Get it all you sick morons?
没有必要让法西斯、种族主义者和笨蛋们去讨论什么问题。这样的讨论没有任何好处,TMD也没有任何意义。就好像没有必要去讨论大屠杀有什么好处,讨论是否禁止种族歧视或者破坏宪法有什么优劣一样。在这个国家里,言论自由有其法律和道德的界限,种族歧视是非法的,而当一个又哭又闹的种族主义者并不光荣。懂了吗,你们这些病态的白痴。


Carol Tencza · 10 hrs +2
I think the facists were the one's giving the "push back".
我想,抗议的那群人自己就是法西斯。


George Tsoporis · Toronto, Ontario · 10 hrs +2
You have a right to free speech. You do not have a right to a platform. Also, Peterson is a dreadful bore. Just listen to some of his incoherent and rambling YouTube lectures. Faith Goldy likes fascist politics in Greece. Who wants to hear these people espouse their bigotry? 'Free speech,' as it is being used these days, seems like code for 'alt-right,' neo-nazi, white supremist. Congrats to Ryerson for not giving these buffoons and racists the legitimacy of an academic setting.
你有权利发表任何言论,但你不一定有权利在公共平台上传播它。况且,Peterso是个惹人厌的家伙,你去YouTube听听他那语无伦次、杂乱无章的讲座。而Faith Goldy喜欢希腊的法西斯政治。谁想听到这些人去吹嘘他们的偏见呢?这些日子以来,”言论自由”好像变成了右翼新纳粹头子的座右铭了。瑞尔森不给予这些小丑和种族主义者学术合法性是值得肯定的。

George Hong · Toronto, Ontario · 8 hrs
How can you like Star Trek and be like this.
一个《星际迷航》的粉怎么会是这幅德性。(译注:LS的ID是《星际迷航》中的人物角色)


Bruce Davie · Simon Fraser University · 10 hrs +8
"Peterson repeatedly echoed U.S. President Donald Trump’s assertion that ideologues on both sides were responsible for violence."

I love (sacastic) the way MSM uses wordings like this to position a very fair-minded person like Prof Peterson on the L/R continuum next to Trump. I do not think Peterson's position is aligned with Trump's.

Peterson is a revelation. I hope people listen to what he says. He is NOT alt-right. In fact, to label him as such is an insult to his core-being.
“Peterson多次引用美国总统唐纳德·特朗普的说法,称意识形态对立的双方都应为引起的暴力事件负责。”
这些媒体装作理客中,玩弄春秋笔法搞得Peterson教授的政治倾向跟川普一样,太精彩了(讽刺)。我认为彼得森的立场与特朗普的立场根本不一致。
彼得森是个启示者。我希望人们去听听他的话。他不是极右。事实上,给他贴上这样的标签是对他本质上的侮辱。


David Stymeist · University of Toronto · 9 hrs +3
Forget about Law and the Charter. Antifa decides what can and can not happen; who may speak and who may not.

Believe everything you are told. The ideological cadres know best.
Think right. Speak correct
忘记法律和《宪章》吧。让反法西斯者来决定什么能做什么不能发生;谁可以说谁不可以。
相信他们跟你讲的一切,因为思想长官无所不知。
学会正确地思想,正确地说话。


Vladimir Smejkal · 9 hrs
What were they going to discuss? Merits of white race supremacy? Merits of a appartheid system? Racial discrimination of Whites?
I guess all valid topics, but no thanks. An asylum would a much better venue.
他们打算讨论什么?白人至上的优点?种族隔离的好处?白人的种族歧视?
我想他们通通要讨论一遍,但还是免了吧,他们还是更合适去精神病院演讲。

Winnie Holland · 9 hrs
I doubt your obsessions would have been considered worthy of discussion
我怀疑你的困扰有没有讨论的价值。

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs
"An asylum would a much better venue."
-------------------------------------
Good idea, admitting yourself is usually better than the other option. They may let you out someday.
他们还是更合适去精神病院演讲。
说得好,起码你勇于承认,也许哪天精神病院放你出来。


Winnie Holland · 9 hrs +3
Freedom of expression is under attack and the media is complicit in the attacks.
Wake up before it is too late!
表达的自由被群起而攻之,而媒体也在推波助澜,现在觉醒为时未晚!


Winnie Holland · 9 hrs
Diversity of opinion is more important than any other aspect of diversity.
观点的多样性比任何观点都要重要。


Darren Kranz · Brock University · 9 hrs +2
Can we take a vote to have Claude and Vladimar banned from the National Post?
我们能投票禁止Claude与Vladimar进来吗?

Bob Perreault · University of Waterloo · 7 hrs
Please
拜托啦



Wil Cee · 9 hrs +3
How is Faith Goldy "far-right"? How does the writer define "far-right"? Explain that to me.
Faith Goldy是怎么个“极右”法?作者又是怎么定义“极右”的?给我解释解释吧。


Maria Peters · 9 hrs +1
Maybe it is time to ask our government why Canada voted against the resolution of UN,condemning all fascist symbols?!
或者该问问我们的政府为什么要投票否决联合国有关禁止一切法西斯符号的决议。


Dave Patterson · 9 hrs +6
- fascism also starts with demonizing people who say things you don't like, and attacking 'free' speech. and creating mobs of really, really stupid people running around breaking things. Sound like anyone you know?
法西斯主义一开始也是将说“不快”言论的人妖魔化,并攻击那些“自由”的演讲。从而创造出一群只懂得制造混乱的白痴,。听起来耳熟吗?


Dave Patterson · 9 hrs +1
probably way too late for any sane discussion here, but people really need to start understanding what is really going on here, which I take a deeper look at here - It's not 'the left' trying to take over the world and shut down free speech and all that other bad stuff - it's 'the right'!! -http://www.rudemacedon.ca/vgi/ba ... t%20plot%20omg.html
这里进行的许多明智的讨论也许已经太晚了,但人们确实需要去理解这里到底发生了什么事情。我仔细地观察,发现原来这不是“左派”在破坏言论自由和所有其他的“坏东西”并试图接管世界,这是“做正确的事”!!


Terry Rogers · Guzzling Beer at MGTOW Headquarters · 9 hrs
A university is no place for the free exchange of ideas!
大学不再是自由交流思想的场所!

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs +1
Carefull, people here don't necessarily understand some aspects of the English language. The ones found in the "S" section of the dictionary.
小心点,这里的人们不一定了解英语的某些方面,比如S开头的某个词。


Jake Stonehenge · Toronto, Ontario · 9 hrs +1
Definately trudeau supporters..
绝对是特鲁多的支持者……


Phred Farkle · 9 hrs
Let's let these loons of the Left get their names out there. No employer with a brain will ever hire them. Thank God for the Internet and easy background checks.
去人肉这些左派狂人并把他们的名字公布出来,看看有哪个老板会雇佣他们。感谢老天还有互联网与简单的背景调查。


Everett Duncan · Austin, Texas · 9 hrs +1
Peterson "echoing Trump?!" Jeez, guess they had to come up with somthing since his erudition gave them no quotable purchase, not even out of context. Meanwhile, that Christeen Elizabeth, she can't even muster of enough for them to polish before doubling back. Surreal indeed, Dr. Pererson. The irony.
Peterson “附和特朗普?!“哎呀哎呀,我猜因为Peterson 的渊博学识让他们无缝可钻,所以不得不断章取义地编造故事。同时,那个Christeen Elizabeth,她甚至不能在回头之前集合足够的人来充充脸面。的确很超现实,Pererson博士。真是讽刺。


Andrew Spencer · 8 hrs +2
So tell me again who the totalitarians are...所以说谁才是集权主义者……


Rick Lauridsen-Hoegh · Concordia/Ottawa U · 8 hrs +2
So Ryerson (in the left corner - representing the left) is willing to silence the reasonable and the right. How noble and enlightened of them. Sad to see how far we have fallen.
所以瑞尔森情愿让公道与正确缄默,多么开明高尚啊。看到我们堕落如斯真是难过。

George Hong · Toronto, Ontario · 8 hrs +4
Sheesh, Vladimir or Claude do you have any evidence at all that the 4 speakers talking about freedom of speech are racists, fascists or nazis? Are you two comparing Canada to Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? Can't you tell Saad and Peterson are classical liberals? Elizabeth is doing the usual Social Justice Warrior leftist thing of defining every little thing as violence. You two are old enough to know better. Can't you tell her own behaviour smells bad? Or are you letting it slide in the name of your cause? I hope we figure it out eventually.
他妈的,Vladimir 跟Claude,你们有什么证据表明那四个人谈论言论自由就是种族主义者、法西斯主义者或纳粹?你们两个把加拿大比作纳粹德国还是苏联?你难道看不出来Saad 和Peterson 是古典自由主义者吗?伊丽莎白做的正是社会正义斗士经常干的事——把每一件小事都定义为暴力。而你们两个都是成年人,对世事应该有了更深的了解。你们难道看不出来她的行为的恶劣之处吗?还是说你们拿钱发帖所以对此视而不见?我希望我们最终能搞清楚。


Stephen Chen · 8 hrs +2
For those of you who don't know, Ryerson is the the most left wing school in Ontario if not all of Canada. There's a reason we used to call it Rye High. And by high I mean high school.
跟那些不了解的人讲一下,瑞尔森在安大略,乃至整个加拿大,都是数一数二的左翼学校。我们以前称其为“瑞高”,高指的是高中。


Paul Cerar · Toronto, Ontario · 8 hrs +2
I hope Professor Peterson, and the rest of the pro-democracy panel, smarten up, and sue every fascist who slanders them!
我希望Professor教授与民主讨论会的其他人联合起来,控告那些诋毁他们的法西斯!


Norman Wells · 8 hrs +1
Point proven. No free speech on campus unless approved.
证明了一个观点。没被允许校园里就没有言论自由。


Richard Silliker · Hamilton, Ontario · 8 hrs
Just another bunch of people who are lazy with thier words and ideas. The whole "left" ideaology can be printed on a t-shirt. "Only I am right"
又是一群不会表达的人。“左派思想”的要点等同于”只有我才是对的”,把这句话印在T恤上吧。

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs
you could get a t-shirt like mine which reads Ï'm not trying to offend you, that part is just a bonus".
你可以像我一样搞件T恤,上面印着“我不是想要冒犯你,只是一点额外奖励”


Ron Drysdale · Brandon University · 7 hrs
"Rye High" ... the most low-level "University" in Canada ... the nickname (coined I think by its own grads) does a dis-service to a lot of really good high-schools in Canada. Not at all vigorous, but they did produce some skilled technicians "back in the day" ... :(
“瑞高”…加拿大最低级的“大学”…这个外号(我认为是由它自己的毕业生创造的)是对加拿大众多好中学的诋毁。虽然死气沉沉的,但是过去还是为社会提供了不少技术工人(哀)。

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs
Yep, some of those secretaries are still servicing their industry.
是啊,比如一些秘书还在干他们那行呢。


Cindy Parker · Secretary at Self employed · 6 hrs +2
Just how sad is this in our Canada?? I never thought I would live to see the day that speakers would not be allowed at a Canadian University. Shut down by gutless administrators and the alt left activists that think it's ok to scream down anything they don't like, pull fire alarms and threaten violence. Where is our Government, never mind, taking selfies...where is our law enforcement, never mind, bellboys on our border less country. Oh Canada, We forgot to stand on guard for thee!
我们加拿大有多么可悲?我从没想过会看到在加拿大会有大学不允许演讲者发言的一天。胆小的校方跟左翼激进分子们以为可以用吵闹盖过他们不喜欢的东西,用暴力和纵火进行威胁。我们的政府呢?哦,在忙着自拍呢…我们的执法部门呢?哦,在边境给人当跟班呢。加拿大,我们没有守卫好你!

Carol Tencza · 6 hrs
Thank you. A few of have some sanity left... pun not intended.
谢谢你,少数理智尚存的人……不是要故意打双关语。


Bruce Vereshagen · 6 hrs +3
So, if I am understanding this correctly, Ryerson was going to have a panel discussion on a perceived issue around Ryerson stifling right of centre views on campus by caving in to the demands of left wing activists threatening violence, but then decided to cancel the discussion because left wing activists threatened violence? Is that about right? Please tell me I have been asleep for eight and a half months and this is an April Fools article. Do people actually pay money to attend this clown circus?
所以,如果我没理解错的话,瑞尔森大学因为日前左派激进者暴力威胁而要开展一个讨论,但后来因为左翼激进分子暴力威胁而决定取消讨论,对吧?请告诉我我睡糊涂了,看了愚人节的报道。难道人们是在付费看马戏团的小丑演出吗?


Alex Dennison · 4 hrs
As usual the university administrators buckle under pressure from the SJWs and cite "public safety" as the reason for cancelling the event. Pathetic.
与往常一样,大学官方在压力下屈服,以“公共安全”为理由取消了活动,可悲啊。


John Rebelo · Owner at Self-Employed · 4 hrs
I read the article... I read all comments. Yes, I am absolutely convinced this Liberal Marxism/Postmodernism... ideology(?) which presently controls the Administration Offices, Faculty and Campuses of most Canadian, American and European Universities trully is a mental sickness. What's happening to the people who are supposed to be our future...???
我读了这篇文章…我也读了所有的评论。是的,我完全相信这种控制了美国和欧洲的大学以及加拿大的大部分校园的自由马克思主义/后现代主义…的意识形态(?)(译:?)是一种精神病。那些我们未来社会的主人翁身上发生了什么……???


Susan Young · Toronto, Ontario · 3 hrs
It is the leftists who are the fascists. That is what is so Orwellian about this. None of those speakers are fascists and I have listened to all of them in varying degrees. It is those who shut down debate and free expression who are the fascists.
这些左派正是法西斯。奥威尔就是这么想的。讨论组的发言者中没有哪一个是法西斯主义者,我在不同程度上都听取了他们的意见。那些关闭辩论和言论自由的人才是法西斯分子。


Andrew Zubriczky · CEO & Founder at Get Google First Page Results · 3 hrs
When are people going to wake up to the disarming reality that 'Freedom of Speech', 'Liberty' , and 'Equality' do NOT exist in our present society, they are merely idealistic constructs that hold no power over people any longer. Instead, they only serve to anger and alienate. What is the world coming to?
人们什么时候才能清醒地意识到所谓言论自由让人遗憾的现实,“自由”和“平等”仅仅是一个理想中的概念,现实中根本不存在,如今这两个名词不能再使人民免于被权利凌驾于头上,反而使人民相互仇恨与疏远。世界在走向何方?


Ivo Kintobor · 2 hrs
Do it in Calgary. U of C.
在卡尔加里大学也这么干。


Cole Jones · Works at Paper Street Soap Company · 1 hr
So I take Ryerson = UQAM for all intents and purposes? When do the riots start?
所以我完全可以把瑞尔森等同于魁北克大学?暴乱什么时候开始?


GS Chaban · 36 mins
"Violence is contextual." What does that even mean, Elizabeth? If I'm a vegan, does slicing carrots equate violence? What about if I love the Habs and someone says that they hate their red sweaters? Should I be going to a tribunal? If there's discussion I don't like, let me hear it so I know what and where it is.

伊丽莎白,什么叫做“暴力会产生连锁反应”?一个素食主义者把胡萝卜切成片也是暴力吗?如果我喜欢红色而大家讨厌红色的话,我改被抓起来审判吗?如果有一个让我反感的讨论会,我倒是宁愿去听一下,这样我才知道为什么要讨厌。

If a group of Antifa is deciding for me, I'm well aware of at least one hate group that's crushing freedom
如果我被一个反法西斯群体代表了,那么起码我知道了有那么一群讨厌鬼在破坏自由。

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发表于 2017-9-13 16:32:15 | 显示全部楼层
译文真长,良心翻译啊
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发表于 2017-9-13 17:04:23 | 显示全部楼层
言论自由应该建立在法律和社会道德允许的情况下。你可以反对ZF的政策,提出自己的意见,但是你不能发表一些煽动,仇视其他民族,种族的言论。你去美国大街高喊,黑人亚洲人滚出美国,低等种族试试看, 你去日本高喊,天皇吃屎,取消皇室试试,所以有些香港人的言论早就超出了言论自由的范畴,打着言论自由旗帜,发表港独,发表仇视中国大陆人的言论。但是从来没受到过严惩。真的不能继续放任下去了。大陆可能受限于一国两制政策,没办法管,但香港政府完全有权利管。
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发表于 2017-9-13 17:05:06 | 显示全部楼层
呵呵,管理者终究是知道什么手法古典而有效,也许这也证明了古来二舌之徒系代出?世界的保守化回潮对中国而言利弊如何可以进一步细看。
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发表于 2017-9-13 18:00:34 | 显示全部楼层
影响欧洲团结稳定的“纳粹主义”言论应该被抹杀,而影响中国团结稳定的“分裂”言论就是“自由之声”??西方人果然是双重标准!
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发表于 2017-9-13 18:25:47 | 显示全部楼层
jeanyue888 发表于 2017-9-13 17:04
言论自由应该建立在法律和社会道德允许的情况下。你可以反对ZF的政策,提出自己的意见,但是你不能发表一些 ...

其实香港所谓言论自由是被西方意识形态绑架了。

很简单因为民主的解释权在人家西方手里,现在苏格兰人都要独立,民主旗帜的先锋英国佬都不得不让人家公投,自然解释了所谓民主框架下可以进行所谓民族、领土独立这个事。

所以在根本上不应该在民主这个圈子里反驳他们,直接用法律武器定性,找几个茬搞臭他。
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发表于 2017-9-13 19:10:45 | 显示全部楼层
执迷不悟,唉
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发表于 2017-9-13 20:43:03 | 显示全部楼层

「有一个斯巴达妇女的五个儿子都在军队里,她等待着战事的消息。一个奴隶来了,她战栗地问他。『你的五个儿子都战死了。』『贱奴,谁问你这个?』『我们已经胜利了!』于是,这位母亲便跑到庙里去感谢神灵。这样的人就是公民。」——卢梭《爱弥儿》

古典意义上的言论自由和公民权都是排他的,此两者不属于奴隶和异邦人。罗马共和国和雅典共和国都是典型的范例,所以他们能够对外扩张,征服异族。美国早期的历史中把印第安人送进集中营、排斥东亚移民正是这个共和国活力的体现。言论自由当然存在边界,先有共同体而后有自由。这个道理,北美白人的祖先是明白的,只是他们不会想到自己的后人会蠢得如此无药可救。
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发表于 2017-9-13 21:04:59 | 显示全部楼层
简单点说,还是那个梗。闭嘴!!!!我们在讨论自由,谁让你说话了!!!
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发表于 2017-9-14 00:17:53 | 显示全部楼层
我现在有点担心这种事的最终结尾会不会是希墨早生了或者说当年种的因最终结果,物极必反?
人类史上最大规模的种族战争信仰战争(包括核弹使用)?

祝福可能万一走到那一天的世界,走到那一天的中国
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发表于 2017-9-14 03:42:40 | 显示全部楼层
我再ryson旁边的ut,多大。
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发表于 2017-9-14 03:42:53 | 显示全部楼层
我在ryson旁边的ut,多大。
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发表于 2017-9-14 08:08:15 龙腾移动网页版 | 显示全部楼层
星辰中的海兵 发表于 2017-9-14 00:17
我现在有点担心这种事的最终结尾会不会是希墨早生了或者说当年种的因最终结果,物极必反?
人类史上最大规 ...

没事,还有毛子顶着,美国纳粹了也跨不过太平洋
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发表于 2017-9-14 08:35:22 | 显示全部楼层
随着经济的衰退,欧洲变得保守化,迟早会再次诞生掌控全国的右翼组织。到时候为了转移矛盾,驱赶中东人、发动战争,都是可以想象的。
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发表于 2017-9-14 09:18:23 | 显示全部楼层
yzcdragon 发表于 2017-9-13 18:25
其实香港所谓言论自由是被西方意识形态绑架了。

很简单因为民主的解释权在人家西方手里,现在苏格兰人 ...

可是苏格兰本来就跟香港的情况根本不同,英国本来就是联邦,中国可不是
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发表于 2017-9-14 09:24:08 | 显示全部楼层
我们在讨论言论自由,所以请你闭嘴。
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发表于 2017-9-14 10:12:18 | 显示全部楼层
不知道香港黄丝看见有什么感想。。。。。。。
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发表于 2017-9-14 10:29:23 | 显示全部楼层
星辰中的海兵 发表于 2017-9-14 00:17
我现在有点担心这种事的最终结尾会不会是希墨早生了或者说当年种的因最终结果,物极必反?
人类史上最大规 ...

古代有五帝白帝、青帝、黄帝、炎帝,黑帝就是五大人种,这么多年终于棕种人退场,不剩下一永不完结
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发表于 4 天前 龙腾移动网页版 | 显示全部楼层
这群人是自大到无边以至于智力受到了严重损伤,不懂得一个人的自由是以牺牲某个人的利益为前提的吗?还是所有的自由主义者都特么只看中自己的利益?
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发表于 4 天前 龙腾移动网页版 | 显示全部楼层
左右互搏最好玩了
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发表于 前天 18:48 | 显示全部楼层
现在开始意识形态混乱了?好事情
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