印度在民主指数中的排名被下调，莫迪放话要推出印度自己的民主指数
Modi’s India plans its own democracy index, after global rankings downgrade
译文简介
许多民主指数基本上都依赖“专家”的意见，而这些“专家”基本上只是把他们自己的议程强加于排名之中。
正文翻译
Modi’s India plans its own democracy index, after global rankings downgrade
全球排名下调后，莫迪领导的印度计划推出自己的民主指数
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A lot of these democracy Indixes basically rely on the opinion of ”experts”, said experts basically only put their own agenda into the rankings
We should make a lot more of these indixes
Also on another note it's always funny seeing Al-Jazeera report on anything related to democracy considering how their masters are a Literally Qatar a true bastion of democracy and freedom
许多民主指数基本上都依赖“专家”的意见，而这些“专家”基本上只是把他们自己的议程强加于排名之中。
我们应该制作更多这样的指数
另外，看到半岛电视台报道任何与民主有关的事情总是很有趣，因为他们的主子卡塔尔是一个名副其实的对民主和自由严防死守的堡垒
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Its hardly a secret that if you check who provides funding for these think tanks you see a list of US executive departments and the same NGOs that donate heavily to the two major parties
如果你查一下谁为这些智囊团提供资金，你会看到一份美国行政部门和非政府组织的名单，这些部门和组织向两大政党提供了大量捐款，这几乎不是什么秘密。
Realist
Off topic: Why do these international media outlets often refer to the country as 'Modi's India', as if Modi is some sort of a fascist who basically owns the entire country and dictates the policies and day to day lives of it's citizens?
Has anyone ever seen them using terms like 'Biden's America', 'Sunak's UK' or 'Trudeau's Canada'? So why is a fellow democracy getting addressed like that?
These are very subtle things that most people would probably not notice, but is essential in shaping a certain narrative towards some particular countries.
题外话：为什么这些国际媒体经常将这个国家称为“莫迪的印度”，就好像莫迪是某种法西斯主义者，基本上拥有整个国家，并对其政策和公民的日常生活发号施令？
有谁见过他们使用过“拜登的美国”、“苏纳克的英国”或“特鲁多的加拿大”等这样的术语吗？那么，作为一个民主国家同袍为什么会受到这样的对待呢？
这些都是非常微妙的事情，大多数人可能不会注意到，但对于塑造针对某些特定国家的某种叙述至关重要。
Exactly man i thought I was the only one who noticed it It's been getting on my nerves recently
I kinda hope our media outlets also start saying things like Biden's American or Trudeau's Canada
Also seeing some of the comments in subreddits like world news a lot of these guys genuinely seem to believe that modi is a fascist without having the slightest bit of clue of the nuances of India
确实，哥们，我还以为只有我一个人注意到这一点呢，这让我最近越来越烦。
我有点希望我们的媒体也开始说拜登的美国或特鲁多的加拿大之类的话
还看到世界新闻等 Reddit 子版块中的一些评论，其中很多人似乎真的相信莫迪是法西斯主义者，却对印度的细微差别一无所知
Well the thing is a day without hypocrisy is a day wasted in the US. So nothing more can be expected.
在美国，不虚伪做作的一天就是虚度的一天。因此，也别对他有什么期望了。
That's one awesome quote, i remember seeing it first in the comments section of Hindustan Times on YouTube
But my favourite one has to be Pakistan iirc it's a day without begging is day wasted
这句话太棒了，我记得第一次看到这句话是在 YouTube 上《印度斯坦时报》的评论区。
但我最喜欢的还是针对巴基斯坦的一句话：不乞讨的一天就是浪费的一天。
I can't recall where I read or heard it but the point it made was pretty clear. These 2-bit think-tanks use such passive aggressive tone to demean others. They always project a binary outlook on every situation where they are always the force of good, while in reality they have created a lot of mess in wake of their myopic policies, all packaged in the garb of freedom and rule-based-order.
Done with their double standards and arm twisting everyone to tow their line. India is not some vassal state of the American empire.
我记不清是在哪里读到或听到的了，但它所表达的观点非常明确。这些二流智囊团用这种消极攻击的语气贬低他人。他们总是用一种二元对立的观点来看待各种情况，认为自己总是正义的力量，而实际上，他们的近视政策造成了许多混乱，而所有这些都披着自由和基于规则的秩序的外衣。
他们的双重标准和强迫每个人按照他们画的线行事的行为已经结束了。印度不是美帝国的某个附庸国。
Why do these international media outlets often address the country as 'Modi's India',
Because in their mind Modi, who wasn't western educated and doesn't speak good English and pushes back against the narratives and diktats of western liberals instead of meekly submitting to them, is not the Prime Minister of the "their India" which happens to be the "real India."
In their minds the "real India" or the "good" India is one where people like Manmohan Singh or the Gandhi family are in charge and people like Arundhati Roy set the narrative. That's the kind of people that they want to see in charge and think *should* be in charge. Meek, genteel, fluently English speaking and western educated - the kind of people that they can relate to and can understand easily and who don't push back against western liberals.
Modi, who is a departure from these things, is a usurper in their minds, who has taken over and ruined "their" India. "Modi's India" is what they think India has become overnight after Modi was elected. The fact that Modi was democratically elected and that issues that contributed to his rise have been present and accumulating for decades is something that doesn't enter their minds.
In the same way, there are two kinds of Hindus in the mind of American left wingers. The "good" Hindus are the ones like the r*ndia crowd, HfHR, and Arundhati Roy who meekly accept whatever twisted and demeaning narratives racist western "experts" like Audrey Truschke have to throw at them without a word and rush to their defence every single time. The "bad" Hindus are people like HAF, the uppity natives who have the gall to push back against left wing racists and speak for themselves instead of meekly accepting other people speaking for them. For their trouble they get labelled as "right wingers" despite the fact that they have voted and contributed to Democrat causes all their lives. It helps delegitimize them and separate them from the "good" Hindus.
They don't use terms like "Biden's America" because they think that "Biden's America" is the "real" America. They did however use terms like "Trump's America" during the Trump administration because they think - just like they think with Modi - that Trump was a usurper who stole and twisted "their" America. Once Trump was out of office, things went back to normal under Biden - at least in their eyes.
They are hoping/expecting that the same thing will happen in India. Once Modi goes out of power, their expectation is that "sense" will prevail and the "real" India will make a comeback - with their kind of people at the helm - and with a population that will go back to being meekly guided by their "experts" and their frankly racist and demeaning narratives instead of having the gall to speak for themselves.
“为什么这些国际媒体经常称印度为‘莫迪的印度’？”
因为在他们心目中，莫迪没有受过西方教育，英语说得不好，对西方自由派的叙事和指令不理不睬，而不是温顺地屈从于他们，于是，莫迪不是“他们的印度”的总理，而“他们的印度 ”对于西方来说才是“真正的印度”。
在他们心目中，“真正的印度”或“好的”印度是由曼莫汉-辛格或甘地家族这样的人掌权、阿伦达蒂-罗伊这样的人负责叙事的印度。这才是他们希望看到的掌权者，也是他们认为*应该*掌权的人。逆来顺受、温文尔雅、风度翩翩、英语流利、受过西方教育--这样的人与他们有共鸣，容易理解，而且不会对西方自由主义者进行反击。
莫迪背离了这些东西，是他们心目中的篡夺者，他接管并毁掉了“他们的”印度。“莫迪的印度”是他们认为莫迪当选后印度一夜之间变成的样子。莫迪是通过民主选举产生的，导致他崛起的问题已经存在并积累了几十年，但这些事实在他们的脑海中都不存在。
同样，在美国左翼分子的心目中也有两种印度教徒。“好”的印度教徒是那些像 R*ndia、HfHR 和阿伦哈蒂-罗伊这样的人，他们温顺地接受像奥黛丽-特鲁施克这样的西方种族主义“专家”对他们进行的任何扭曲和贬低，每次都不发一言，并且急于为他们辩护。“坏”印度教徒就是像 HAF 这样的人，他们是自大的本地人，敢于反抗左翼种族主义者，为自己说话，而不是温顺地接受别人为他们代言。尽管他们一生都在为民主党的事业投票并做出贡献，但他们还是被贴上了“右翼分子”的标签。这有助于使他们失去合法性，并将他们与“好”印度教徒区分开来。
他们不使用“拜登的美国”这样的词汇，因为他们认为“拜登的美国”才是“真正的”美国。然而，在特朗普执政期间，他们确实使用了“特朗普的美国”这样的词汇，因为他们认为--就像他们对莫迪的看法一样--特朗普是一个篡夺者，偷走并扭曲了“他们的”美国。特朗普下台后，拜登领导下的一切又恢复了正常--至少在他们看来是这样。
他们希望/期待同样的事情在印度发生。一旦莫迪下台，他们的期望是“理智”将占上风，“真正的”印度将卷土重来--由他们这类人掌舵--而印度人民将重新温顺地接受他们的“专家”及其不加掩饰的种族主义和贬低性言论的指导，而不是胆敢站起来为自己说话。
Realist
Ok so whilst I am incredibly critical of how Western media covers India this isn't a liberal thing. You see convservatives calling America, "Biden's America" and vice versa because they want to push their agendas. Both right wing and left wing media spread misinformation about India because they have no idea what they're talking about.
A lot of their sources are elitist Indians who have a strong dislike of Modi with very little effort to do real research because its easy to peddle simple narratives because they rely on clicks and attention.
the right wing isn't our friend. BJP itself frankly is not very right wing. Indian political parties aren't cleanly divided by the left-right political spectrum. NDA admin. has done a lot to progress the rights of trans people in India and supported the decriminalisation of homosexuality but opposed same sex marriage (to which the opposition was silent), they still maintain India's welfare policies and that is also something the opposition is indifferent on.
We can't paste Western political thought here mindlessly. Blaming liberals like they're dominant in the US is ignorant of the fact that neither the Democrat or Republican party have managed to push out the other in any capacity and if anything, the US is becoming more polarised whilst Europe shifts conservative over immigration issues.
好吧，虽然我对西方媒体是如何报道印度的感到深恶痛绝，但这并不是关于自由派的事情。你会看到保守派把美国称为“拜登的美国”，反之亦然，因为他们想推动自己的议程。右翼和左翼媒体都在传播关于印度的错误信息，因为他们根本不知道自己在说什么。
他们的许多消息来源都是对莫迪深恶痛绝的印度精英分子，他们很少花精力去做真正的研究，因为他们很容易兜售简单的叙事，因为他们依赖点击率和关注度。
右翼不是我们的朋友。坦率地说，印度人民党本身就不是很右翼。印度各政党并不完全按左右政治光谱划分。全国民主联盟政府在促进印度变性人权利方面做了很多工作，支持同性恋合法化，但反对同性婚姻（反对党对此保持沉默），他们仍然坚持印度的福利政策，而这也是反对党漠不关心的。
我们不能无意识地把西方的政治思想在这里复制粘贴。指责自由主义者在美国占主导地位是对事实的无知，民主党和共和党都未能在任何方面挤掉对方，硬要说的话，美国正变得更加两极分化，而欧洲则在移民问题上转向保守。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Normative
People may want to outrage how this is pure politics and it won't reflect any real global standing, but its good to have counter geopolitical tools.
人们可能会愤怒地指出，这纯粹是政治行为，不会反映任何真正的全球地位，但拥有反地缘政治工具是件好事。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
This is an especially important point, even if you don't like it it's always important you have tools and methods to counter others when it comes to geopolitics
Apparently the government is approaching ORF to do it so there's a decent chance it will actually be done in a good way but even if it isn't the advantage it gives us enough
这是特别重要的一点，即使你不喜欢，但在地缘政治方面，你拥有反制他人的工具和方法总是很重要的
很显然，政府正在与 ORF 接洽，因此有可能会以良好的方式完成这项工作，但即使不是这样，它给我们带来的好处也足够多了
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It’s only a good geopolitical tool if other nations recognise it as such, that’d be the challenge. We’d need to ensure that our index is more impartial than the indexes we criticise, and have other nations recognise it as such.
只有当其他国家认可它时，它才是一个好的地缘政治工具，这就是我们面临的挑战。我们需要确保我们的指数比我们批评的指数更加公正，并让其他国家认可它。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Request to the Indian govt to actually use this opportunity and create a world class survey instead of making something to further their own propaganda. Stop being political and petty for once and do something for the greater good. India was once known for her statistical models.
请印度政府真正利用这个机会，创造一个世界级的调查，而不是为了进一步宣传自己而制造一些东西。不要再政治化和小家子气了，为更大的利益做些事情吧。印度曾经以其统计模型而闻名。
Our own leftists, com...sts, Islamists, Dravidians, Mists, Urban Naxals, Socialists etc. who dominate many institutions of reputation (science, liberal arts, entertainment and media, research institutions etc.) will be the ones mostly approached for these surveys. Unless the target voters for these surveys is changed, the result will not be very different from what the western propaganda arms are publishing through surveys.
我们自己的左派、共产主义者、伊斯兰主义者、德拉维德主义者、毛主义者、城市纳萨尔派、社会主义者等在许多声誉机构（科学、文科、娱乐和媒体、研究机构等）中占主导地位，他们将是这些调查的主要接触对象。除非这些调查的目标选民发生变化，否则其结果与西方宣传机构通过调查公布的结果不会有太大差别。
They try to enter and influence everything. While as mentioned above, the western ratings are biased, there is no need fo democracy rating of India. obxtively India IS sliding down democracy rankings because it's the truth. We should be more interested in forming investment ratings like Moody's etc. They are opaque too. Nobody in the world much cares about democracy ratings but people do care more about investment ratings.
他们试图进入并影响一切。虽然如上所述，西方的评级有失偏颇，但印度自己的民主评级却没有必要。客观地说，印度的民主排名正在下滑，因为这是事实。我们应该对穆迪等投资评级机构更感兴趣。它们也是不透明的。世界上没有人关心民主评级，但人们更关心投资评级。
Realist
Exactly! India's economy is on track for a solid outcome unless something changes majorly. That's why we should focus on hegemony of these rating agencies to provide more obxtive view of the economy. The kind of ratings that doesn't accept western hegemony at its root. Even without inherent bias, India will have better investment rating than what Moody's etc are providing.
没错！除非发生重大变化，否则印度的经济将保持稳定。这就是为什么我们应该关注这些评级机构的霸权行为，以提供更客观的经济观点。一种从根本上不接受西方霸权的评级。即使没有固有的偏见，印度的投资评级也会比穆迪等机构提供的更好。
Does it actually help anyone? All these indexes are little more than to jerk off to how great their own country is. If it’s western backed it will show the West as the pinnacle of modern society, if it’s Chinese it will show China in a good light, and now that India has joined the jerk off we will show only India as good. None of these achieve anything of note.
它真的能帮助任何人吗？所有这些指数不过是为了炫耀自己的国家有多么伟大。如果是西方国家支持的，它就会显示西方是现代社会的巅峰；如果是中国支持的，它就会显示中国的好，而现在印度也加入了打飞机的行列，我们将只显示印度的好。这些都没有取得任何值得注意的成果。
Conservative
This is dumb. The right answer is to ignore these stupid indexes and stay focused on growing the economy. The govt already has enough work to do, no point adding another, that too one as useless as this.
这太愚蠢了。正确的答案是忽略这些愚蠢的指数，继续专注于经济增长。政府要做的工作已经够多了，没必要再增加一项工作，而且还是像这样毫无用处的工作。
Does anyone here actually believe that Indian democracy is thriving? It's obviously in decline.
Edit: pls come up with your arguments instead of downvotes if you really believe we are a thriving democracy, I would love to hear some
这里有人真的相信印度的民主正在蓬勃发展吗？很明显，它正在衰落。
编辑：如果你真的相信我们是一个繁荣的民主国家，请提出你的论据，而不是光给我点踩。
Correct issues causing a decline in democracy:
Create fake index to make yourself look good:
纠正导致民主衰落的问题：×
创建虚假的指数，让自己看起来更有面子：√
Ask your democracy index organizations to actually conduct surveys using their on ground investigation teams and asking the actual stakeholders such as the people instead of arbitrarily sexting certain "experts" and declaring their word as the gospel of truth.
请让你们的民主指数组织真正利用他们的实地调查团队进行调查，并询问人民等实际利益相关者，而不是任意挑选某些“专家”，并宣布他们的话就是真理的福音。
It's funny how the Indian index is assumed to be outright 'fake', even when the actual methodology hasn't been released so far, whereas the international ones are supposed to be the 'gospel truth' which is apparently unquestionable.
And the irony is, despite that, it's ONLY the supporters of the ruling dispensation who face constant accusations of being 'blind devotees' and 'whatsapp university graduates'.
有意思，印度的指数被认为是彻头彻尾“虚假”的，即使实际方法至今尚未公布，而国际指数却被认为是“福音真理”，完全是不容置疑的。
讽刺的是，尽管如此，只有执政党的支持者才会不断被指责为“盲目的信徒”和“公众号大学毕业生”。
It's funny how the Indian index is assumed to be outright 'fake',
Because of the past experiences. This government started measuring individual lanes as new road whereas in the world it is not the standard.For instance if a 4-lane highway of one km is constructed it will be considered a four km road.
“有意思，印度的指数被认为是彻头彻尾‘虚假’的”
这是因为过去的经验。印度政府开始把单个车道作为新公路来衡量，而在世界上这并不是标准。例如，如果修建了一条一公里长的四车道高速公路，那么在印度它将被视为一条四公里长的公路。
For instance if a 4-lane highway of one km is constructed it will be considered a four km road.
That's done to calculate construction costs. Else, can you please start a construction business & building me 100kms of 8lane highway for the price of single lane 100km roads?
Because of the past experiences.
You understand that Congress has been in power for about 80% of Bharat's history post 1947, right?
P.S. Bharat moved to international standards for highway construction, including lane measurements back in 2018-19, under Modi 1.0.
I wouldn't blame you for you wholesale ignorance given you're an ABCD. I don't expect myself to have accurate info about America, it's entire history, present-day ground realities, etc. & hence comment on how it is run. Even if I have visited multiple times & know a tonne of citizens from diverse ethnicities & backgrounds there, Indians, whites, blacks, latinos, Asians, etc. Good template to follow, no?
“例如，如果修建了一条一公里长的四车道公路，那么它将被视为一条四公里长的公路。”
这样做是为了计算建筑成本。否则，你能不能开一家建筑公司，用单车道 100 公里公路的价格为我建造 100 公里的 8 车道公路？
“因为过去的经验。”
你知道在 1947 年后的巴拉特历史上，大约 80% 的时间都是国大党在掌权吧？
附注：早在 2018-19 年，莫迪 1.0 时期，巴拉特的公路建设（包括车道测量）就已达到国际标准。
我不会因为你的全盘无知而责怪你，因为你是 ABCD。我并不指望自己对美国、它的整个历史、当今的实际情况等有准确的了解，从而对它的管理方式发表评论。即使我曾多次访问美国，并认识大量来自不同种族和背景的公民，如印度人、白人、黑人、拉丁人、亚洲人等。很好的模板，不是吗？