QA：当前美国边境的危机该怎么办？
What should be done about the current crisis at the border in the US?
译文简介
所有美国政客都应该做的一件事，就是回到谈判桌上。并开始做一些近年来在华盛顿几乎已经成为陌生概念的事情——做出妥协。
正文翻译
What should be done about the current crisis at the border in the US?
当前美国边境的危机该怎么办？
当前美国边境的危机该怎么办？
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The very first thing one should do, is to accept there is a problem. Below is a picture of immigrants heading towards the American border. It’s a wave — nay, a tsunami — of people. Most of them are fine people. Some of them are not. Some are desperate souls in need of a better life. Some are hardened criminals.
每个人需要做的第一件事情，就是接受存在的问题。
下面是移民前往美国边境的照片。
这是人潮——不，这是海啸——。
他们大多数都是好人。其中一些不是。有些人是绝望的灵魂，需要更好的生活。有些人是惯犯。
"As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
— Justice William O. Douglas
“夜幕并非一下子就降临了的，压迫也是如此。这两种情况，都有一个黄昏的状态，那个时候看起来一切都好像没有变化。正是在这种黄昏中，我们都必须意识到空气中的变化——无论多么微小——以免我们在不知不觉中就成为黑暗的受害者。”
——大法官 William O. Douglas
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
One thing all American politicians should do is go back to the drawing table. And start to do something that, in recent years, has become an almost alien concept in Washington — make compromises. The Democrats will have to make a compromise on border control, and allow for far more and far better funding for border patrol, screening and protection. In exchange the Republicans could defy Trump’s antics and finally approve the long-awaited military aid package to Ukraine that most senators are in favor of, anyway.
For sure, something has to be done. You can’t just bury your heads in the sand, look the other way, and pretend there isn’t a problem. When millions of people pour into a country and most of these people aren’t registered, aren’t screened or vetted, you have a future disaster on your hands. You have no idea what you’re getting into.
我们的黄昏状态已经过去了。
所有美国政客都应该做的一件事，就是回到谈判桌上。并开始做一些近年来在华盛顿几乎已经成为陌生概念的事情——做出妥协。
民主党人将不得不在边境控制问题上做出妥协，并为边境巡逻、筛查和保护提供更多更好的资金。
作为交换，共和党人需要无视特朗普的滑稽表演，最终批准期待已久的对乌克兰的军事援助计划，无论如何，大多数参议员都支持该计划。
当然，必须要做点什么。你不能把头埋在沙子里，视而不见，假装没有问题。当数以百万计的人涌入一个国家，而这些人中的大多数没有登记、没有经过筛查或审查时，未来你将面临灾难。你根本不知道自己会陷入到什么境地。
I'm sorry, Jean-Marie, your conclusion is not wrong but it misses the most important point.
What they should do first is prosecute people and companies who hire illegal workers. The best way to curtail supply is to cut demand.
对不起， Jean-Marie ，你的结论没有错，但它漏掉了最重要的一点。
他们首先应该做的，是起诉雇佣非法工人的人和公司。减少供应的最好办法是减少需求。
Then who will pick our lettuce and work in meat packing houses, and other jobs that there aren't nearly enough Americans that are willing to do those jobs, especially when unemployment rates are still low. Not fair to them, but my immigrant grandfather had a nasty job too.
然后，谁来帮我们采摘生菜，谁去肉类包装厂工作，还有那些没有多少美国人愿意去做的工作，尤其是在失业率仍然很低的情况下。这对他们是不公平的，但我的祖父当初移民过来的时候也做过糟糕的工作。
Then those companies have to raise wages and actually attract American workers. If the only way our food production maintains itself is by using illegal immigrants who can be paid nearly nothing, then our food system will crumble inevitability.
Better to rebuild our farming system with sustainable wages and practices now rather than later.
IF its actually true that we can't keep our farms open without illegal labor, then we are screwed anyway. But what I suspect is more accurate is massive farm conglomerates can't keep profits at skyhigh levels without illegal labor, not that we simply can't produce food without that labor.
Quite frankly removing illegal labor may actually help increase competition with farms as the big players lose their competitive advantage due to their low wages. What we may see is a boom in smaller scale buisness coming into farming. This could result in higher quality food without significant increases in prices. Increased competition is always better for the free markets and this may be just the way to do it in the farming world.
然后，这些公司就必须提高工资，吸引真正的美国工人。如果我们维持粮食生产的唯一途径，是使用那些几乎没有报酬的非法移民，那么我们的粮食系统将不可避免地崩溃。
最好现在就用可持续的工资和做法，重建我们的农业系统，而不是以后去做。
如果没有非法劳动力，我们的农场就无法继续营业，那我们就完蛋了。但我怀疑更准确的是，如果没有非法劳动力，大型农业企业集团就无法把利润保持在极高的水平，而不是说没有这些劳动力，我们就无法生产粮食。
坦率地说，消除非法劳动力实际上可能有助于增加农场的竞争，因为大公司会失去工资低而失去了竞争优势。我们可能会看到小型企业进入农业的繁荣。这可能会在不大幅涨价的情况下提高食品质量。增加竞争对自由市场总是更好的，这可能正是农业世界需要的做法。
I agree completely. My poorly worded point is that the Republicans claim to want to shut down the border but aren't offering any solutions for who is going to do the work currently done by illegals that Americans don't want to do.
我完全同意。
我措辞拙劣的观点是，共和党人声称想要关闭边境，但没有提供任何解决方案，让谁来做美国人不想做的非法移民目前所做的工作。
Nobody would squawk louder than Republicans if farmers, ranchers, and slaughterhouse operators got arrested and imprisoned for employing illegal immigrants. This is nothing but political fear-mongering.
如果农民、牧场主和屠宰场经营者因雇佣非法移民而被捕入狱，没有人会比共和党人更大声地尖叫。这不过是政治恐慌。
Try it and see. I doubt if it’s republicans who will be squawking.
试试看。我很怀疑是共和党人会大喊大叫。
I seriously doubt you could raise wages high enough to actually get Americans to apply for farm labor jobs.
42 years ago, there was a terrible recession. Meanwhile, in the fall of 1982, CBS News reported that Vermont apple growers could not find workers despite offering $7.50 per hour - which was pretty good back in 1982. They flew in Jamaicans to fill the void - the Jamaicans were the fastest workers and said they could earn more in 2–3 months than an entire year in Jamaica.
The reporter, Ray Brady, went to a big city - either Boston or New York, found an unemployment line and asked if anybody would apply. Absolutely nobody would even consider it. One guy even said “I won’t work for less than $10/hr”.
我非常怀疑你能把工资提高到足够高的水平，让美国人去申请农场劳动力的工作。
42年前，有一场可怕的经济衰退。与此同时，1982年的秋天，哥伦比亚广播公司新闻报道称，尽管佛蒙特州的苹果种植者提供每小时7.50美元的价格，但他们仍然找不到工人——这在1982年是相当不错的工资。他们从牙买加找人来填补这一空白——牙买加人是速度最快的工人，他们说他们这两三个月的收入比他们在牙买加干一整年的收入还要多。
记者Ray Brady去了一个大城市——波士顿还是纽约来着，找到一群失业的人，问有没有人会想要申请这样的工作。没有人考虑。一个人甚至说：“我工作的工资不能低于10美元/小时。”。
Yes you could. Farm labor jobs pay good money these days, and are already worth doing if the stigma wasn’t there. Pay them even more and you would have no end of employees lining up. unxize it so they get benefits when they retire, like any other labor job.
Most of the work is done by mechanization these days anyway.
是的，可以做到的。如今，农场劳动力的工作报酬很高，如果没有被污名化的话，这些工作已经很值得做了。
给他们更多的工资，你会有无穷无尽的排队应聘的员工。成立工会，让他们在退休时可以获得福利，就像其他任何劳动工作一样。
不管怎样，现在大部分工作都是用机械完成的。
Dream on. It’s not the stigma.
When The U.S. Government Tried To Replace Migrant Farmworkers With High Schoolers : The Salt : NPR
美梦成真。这不是污名化。
链接：美国政府试图用高中生取代农民工
Eric Blanton
Cleaning rooms isn’t farm labor. Most of the people who clean hotels in the US are not illegal immigrants.
Working in a meat packing plant is not farm labor. Most of the people who work at meet packing plants are not illegal immigrants.
Picking food is seasonal. It is done in the early AM to avoid the sun. It is not done year around, which means there are breaks, and it is also not difficult to hire visa workers if you have a shortage. You can pay workers more for their labor, or hire more workers to lighten the load. Give them unx benefits in the labor unx, so their time in the fields will add up to their retirement.
Just like slave labor, having a cheap labor source prevents innovation. Having said that, wages have gone up, and so is the incentive for Americans to work in the fields. The average pay is $20.32 an hour, but farmers like people they can fire without having to pay out unemployment benefits.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Field-Worker-Salary#:~:text=As%20of%20Mar%2013%2C%202024,States%20is%20%2420.32%20an%20hour.
Your article is from 1965. Wages have rose a lot since then, and so has agriculture technologies.
打扫房间不是农活。在美国，大多数打扫酒店的人都不是非法移民。
在肉类包装厂工作不是农活。在肉类包装厂工作的大多数人都不是非法移民。
采摘食物具有季节性。这需要在早上工作，以避开阳光。这不是一年四季都能做的工作，这意味着有休息时间段，如果你人手不足，雇佣有签证的工人也不难。你可以给工人更多的工资，或者雇佣更多的工人来减轻负担。建立工会给他们福利，让他们在田里工作的时间加起来足够了就可以等于是退休了。
就像奴隶劳动一样，拥有廉价的劳动力来源会阻碍创新。不管怎么说，工资上涨了，美国人在田里工作的动机也就上涨了。平均工资为每小时20.32美元，但农民喜欢那种他们可以随时解雇，而且无需支付失业救济金的人。
你说的是1965年的事情。自那以后，工资上涨了很多，农业技术也上涨了很多。
It’s not 1965 but the Imperial Valley is still hot as hell - maybe hotter given climate change. It’s estimated that 50%-75% of California farm workers are undocumented.
A high percentage of restaurant workers, motel maids, and meat packers/slaughterhouse workers are undocumented. That’s why a chicken plant got busted in Mississippi. Plus, several years ago, Walmart got busted for hiring illegal immigrants - which upper management had approved. The employers weren’t punished.
Restaurant owners will even say that nobody but illegal immigrants applies for dishwashing jobs. They get hired because they’re on time, dependable, and work hard.
I never see any White hotel maids, landscapers, and fast food workers. All Latino these days - and a fair number are going to be undocumented. And if Americans aren’t going to do the work, why do you even care if undocumented immigrants do it?
现在不是1965年，但帝国谷仍然热得像地狱一样——考虑到气候变化，可能更热。据估计，加州50%-75%的农场工人没有证件。
餐馆工人、汽车旅馆女佣和肉类包装工/屠宰场工人中，有很大一部分没有证件。这就是为什么密西西比州的一家养鸡厂被毁的原因。此外，几年前，沃尔玛因雇佣非法移民而被捕——这是高层管理层批准的。雇主没有受到惩罚。
餐馆老板甚至会说，除了非法移民，没有人申请洗碗工作。他们之所以被录用，是因为他们准时、可靠、工作努力。
我从来没有见过任何白人酒店女佣、园林设计师和快餐工人。如今，所有的拉丁裔——相当一部分人没有证件。如果美国人不打算做这项工作，你为什么还要在乎无证移民是否会做这项工作？
You certainly could. People will pay whatever they have to for food. It’s not like a cell phone.
你当然可以。人们会不惜一切代价购买食物。它不像手机。
If you couldn’t convince Americans to pick apples in Vermont for a decent wage in the middle of a serious recession with 10% unemployment, you’re sure not going to convince them to pick vegetables in the Southern San Joaquin Valley or the Imperial Valley where it’s 95 degrees in the shade before noon - when unemployment rates aren’t even 5%.
It didn’t work in 1965 and it won’t work today.
如果你不能说服美国人在失业率为10%的严重经济衰退中在佛蒙特州以体面的工资采摘苹果，你肯定不能说服他们在南部圣华金谷或帝国谷采摘蔬菜，因为那里中午前的气温为35度，而现在失业率甚至不到5%。
它在1965年不起作用，在今天也不会起作用。
I agree completely, the solution is to allowing us to use work permits, legal immigration, etc as a solution to the manpower needed. But the Republican solution is to keep them illegal so the employers can pay the illegals much less under the table.
我完全同意，解决方案是允许我们使用工作许可证、合法移民等来解决所需的人力问题。但共和党的解决方案是将其保持为非法，这样雇主就可以在私下里向非法移民支付更少的工资了。
could you not establish a legitimate program that hires undocumented immigrants? Then they wouldn’t be illegally working there.
能不能建立一个雇佣非法移民的合法项目？这样他们就不会在那里非法工作了。
Legal immigrants.
做合法移民。
Republicans will never go for that when they wield power. It’s a recipe for even more inflation.
当共和党人掌握权力时，他们永远不会这么做。这会导致更大的通货膨胀。
They won't go for that because they love having illegal immigration as an issue to work their thralls into a lather over.
他们不会这么做，因为他们喜欢把非法移民作为一个问题来解决他们自己的问题。
So you’re all for this mass deluge of illegals?
所以你完全支持这场大规模的非法移民潮？
No, why should I be? It doesn't benefit me like it does right wing politicians.
不，我为什么要支持？这对右翼政客有利，对我没有好处。
The democrats are in power so what’s been stopping them? Oh wait! They don’t want it stopped! They depend heavily on illegal aliens.
民主党掌权了，是什么阻止了他们阻止非法移民？哦，等等！他们不希望它停止！他们严重依赖非法外国人。
What was stopping Republicans . . . during any of their power-weilding eras, ever? They actually don’t want to stop it, either, for a multitude of reasons. But they are worse than Dems for pretending to have a problem with it.
是什么阻止了共和党人。在他们掌权的时代，有没有阻止过非法移民？他们实际上也不想阻止它，原因有很多。但他们比民主党人更糟糕，因为他们假装反对这个问题。