网友讨论：为什么有些人对越南看法如此消极？“游客对目的地总是抱有粉红色的天堂般的幻想”“全球游客回访率最低之一，仅5%”“每个国家都会自我批评自己的国家”“表面光鲜的城市”“越南的护照全球最弱”
Why are some people so negative about Vietnam?
译文简介
reddit网站越南版块有游客去越南旅行后对越南的看法非常积极正面，但碰到的越南本地人和某些外国人对这个国家并不看好。针对此，网友们畅所欲言。
正文翻译
@/No-Cauliflower6572
As a visitor who had a very positive impression, I don't get the negativity from many other foreigners and even some locals. I mean, obviously there are some serious problems in terms of the development of the country - corruption, pollution and lack of an adequate public transport system in the big cities, to name a few - but compared to other countries with similar levels of development it really isn't bad at all. Quite the opposite. I was even a bit positively surprised at how safe and well organised everything is, given that the country was completely destroyed and had absolutely no development 50 years ago I would say your country has done an excellent job at building something from next to nothing. The economy is growing fast, living standard for most people seems okay-ish, very little extreme poverty of the kind you'd see in Latin America, a lot of new things are being built, crime rate and especially violent crime is low. Even on more sensitive issues like freedom of expression, Vietnam is obviously not good but it's nowhere near as bad as places like Thailand where you get locked up for 40+ years for even so much as mild criticism of the monarchy, or have death squads sent after you if you leave the country. Vietnam doesn't do that shit. It also doesn't have dangerous religious extremists like all of South Asia, or in SE Asia Indonesia, Malaysia or the Philippines do. Being gay is relatively accepted at least in the cities - definitely much more accepted than in China or in the other SE Asian countries except maybe Thailand.
Overall Vietnam at this point probably has the same average standard of living as places like Brazil while having far less extreme poverty and far less crime than Brazil. Brazil wasn't bombed to hell and back just a few decades ago. Vietnam is definitely as a whole better off than most of South America (exceptions would be Chile and Uruguay) and life in the cities is safer than most cities of North America and Europe, even. Again, this is with much worse starting conditions than any of the other countries I've mentioned in this post. Vietnam has done a lot more with much less to work with.
So why are many people so negative, despite Vietnam doing comparatively well?|
作为一个对越南印象非常正面的游客，我无法理解许多其他外国人甚至一些本地人所表现出的消极态度。我的意思是，显然这个国家在发展方面存在一些严重问题，比如腐败、污染以及大城市缺乏完善的公共交通系统等。但是，相较于其他同等发展水平的国家，实际情况并没有那么糟糕，反而是相反的。我认为这个国家在很多方面做得相当不错，尽管存在上述问题，但总体上给我的感觉是积极正面的。
我甚至对该国的安全性和一切事务的良好组织程度感到有些惊喜。考虑到这个国家在50年前完全被摧毁，没有任何发展基础，我认为贵国在白手起家、建设国家方面做得非常出色。经济正在快速增长，大多数人的生活水平看似尚可，几乎没有像拉丁美洲那样极端贫困的现象，许多新的设施正在建设中，犯罪率尤其是暴力犯罪率较低。总体而言，这个国家展现出一种积极的发展态势和进步精神。
即使在像言论自由这样敏感的问题上，越南显然做得并不好，但其状况远没有泰国等地那样糟糕，在泰国，即使是温和批评君主制也可能被监禁40多年，甚至有人在离开该国后遭到追杀。而越南并不会做出这样的事情。此外，越南也没有南亚所有国家以及东南亚的印尼、马来西亚或菲律宾那样的危险宗教极端分子。同性恋至少在城市中相对被接受——肯定比中国以及其他东南亚国家（除泰国以外）更受接纳。
总的来说，当前越南的生活水平可能与巴西相当，但其极端贫困现象远少于巴西，犯罪率也远低于巴西。值得注意的是，几十年前巴西并未遭受毁灭性轰炸。总体而言，越南的状况优于南美洲大部分国家（智利和乌拉圭除外），城市生活甚至比北美和欧洲大多数城市更加安全。这一切都是在起步条件远逊于我在此贴中提到的其他国家的前提下实现的。越南凭借相对较少的资源实现了更大的发展。
那么，为什么许多人对越南持有负面看法，尽管它在比较中表现得相当不错呢？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
As a visitor who had a very positive impression, I don't get the negativity from many other foreigners and even some locals. I mean, obviously there are some serious problems in terms of the development of the country - corruption, pollution and lack of an adequate public transport system in the big cities, to name a few - but compared to other countries with similar levels of development it really isn't bad at all. Quite the opposite. I was even a bit positively surprised at how safe and well organised everything is, given that the country was completely destroyed and had absolutely no development 50 years ago I would say your country has done an excellent job at building something from next to nothing. The economy is growing fast, living standard for most people seems okay-ish, very little extreme poverty of the kind you'd see in Latin America, a lot of new things are being built, crime rate and especially violent crime is low. Even on more sensitive issues like freedom of expression, Vietnam is obviously not good but it's nowhere near as bad as places like Thailand where you get locked up for 40+ years for even so much as mild criticism of the monarchy, or have death squads sent after you if you leave the country. Vietnam doesn't do that shit. It also doesn't have dangerous religious extremists like all of South Asia, or in SE Asia Indonesia, Malaysia or the Philippines do. Being gay is relatively accepted at least in the cities - definitely much more accepted than in China or in the other SE Asian countries except maybe Thailand.
Overall Vietnam at this point probably has the same average standard of living as places like Brazil while having far less extreme poverty and far less crime than Brazil. Brazil wasn't bombed to hell and back just a few decades ago. Vietnam is definitely as a whole better off than most of South America (exceptions would be Chile and Uruguay) and life in the cities is safer than most cities of North America and Europe, even. Again, this is with much worse starting conditions than any of the other countries I've mentioned in this post. Vietnam has done a lot more with much less to work with.
So why are many people so negative, despite Vietnam doing comparatively well?|
作为一个对越南印象非常正面的游客，我无法理解许多其他外国人甚至一些本地人所表现出的消极态度。我的意思是，显然这个国家在发展方面存在一些严重问题，比如腐败、污染以及大城市缺乏完善的公共交通系统等。但是，相较于其他同等发展水平的国家，实际情况并没有那么糟糕，反而是相反的。我认为这个国家在很多方面做得相当不错，尽管存在上述问题，但总体上给我的感觉是积极正面的。
我甚至对该国的安全性和一切事务的良好组织程度感到有些惊喜。考虑到这个国家在50年前完全被摧毁，没有任何发展基础，我认为贵国在白手起家、建设国家方面做得非常出色。经济正在快速增长，大多数人的生活水平看似尚可，几乎没有像拉丁美洲那样极端贫困的现象，许多新的设施正在建设中，犯罪率尤其是暴力犯罪率较低。总体而言，这个国家展现出一种积极的发展态势和进步精神。
即使在像言论自由这样敏感的问题上，越南显然做得并不好，但其状况远没有泰国等地那样糟糕，在泰国，即使是温和批评君主制也可能被监禁40多年，甚至有人在离开该国后遭到追杀。而越南并不会做出这样的事情。此外，越南也没有南亚所有国家以及东南亚的印尼、马来西亚或菲律宾那样的危险宗教极端分子。同性恋至少在城市中相对被接受——肯定比中国以及其他东南亚国家（除泰国以外）更受接纳。
总的来说，当前越南的生活水平可能与巴西相当，但其极端贫困现象远少于巴西，犯罪率也远低于巴西。值得注意的是，几十年前巴西并未遭受毁灭性轰炸。总体而言，越南的状况优于南美洲大部分国家（智利和乌拉圭除外），城市生活甚至比北美和欧洲大多数城市更加安全。这一切都是在起步条件远逊于我在此贴中提到的其他国家的前提下实现的。越南凭借相对较少的资源实现了更大的发展。
那么，为什么许多人对越南持有负面看法，尽管它在比较中表现得相当不错呢？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
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@BananaForLifeee
If you compare one country to another in a general view it’s like apples and oranges.
Yes it is better than some places and relatively ok compared to somewhat similar B tier countries, but it’s the people who live here their entire life that complain, not to take anything from your point of view, but what I (we whom) complain is what my could have been instead of what it had been.
Sure the country was ruined after decades of war and economic sanctions, from that to here we’ve came a long way. But we could have been much much greater in many sectors, had the leaders been more passionate about their country and people instead of bieng these megapower political gangs fighting each other.
Vietnam has everything a country needs, far more potential than many of its ASEAN neighbors, far more than South Korea. Fertile soils for agriculture, long coastline for fisheries and tourism and ports, close to 0 ethnic conflicts, hard working people, rich natural resources, oil, gas, rare-earth mines, abundant of sun/wind sources for power, rivers network for dams. No mega natural disasters, no typhoon (the Phillipines took all the major hits), flooding in central parts is results from over harvesting the forests. And also very important, politically stable. No rebels, military groups or whatever trying to overthrow the government.
All of that and the result is what? The weakest currency in the region. Significantly lower tourist return rate than Thailand Inferior agricultural products than Thailand and Malay (durians and fruits) Selling crude oil to China only to import refined oil from them resulting in a deficit Allowing China to farm Bauxite mines for decades Rampant corruptions of all levels of authority. Poor public infrastructures and transportation. Blatant brainwashing teachings to the police and armies. Economic real estate bubbles that go on and on for decades just now popping. Bleeding of talents, because government positions are designated for acquaintances, not for capable people.
I can go on and on. Am i happy with my life here, yes totally because im quite fortunate, but otherwise could my country as a whole been better? F*cking A it can, i could have and should have exceed Thailand in some areas and for sure it should have been the next big thing in Asia.27
总的来说，如果你将一个国家与另一个国家进行比较，那就像是在比较苹果和橙子。确实，相较于某些地方，这个国家可能更好，在某种程度上与同为B级别相似国家相比还算过得去。但我们在这里生活了一辈子的人所抱怨的，并非针对你的观点，而是关于我们国家本可以成为的样子，而非它曾经的样子。
诚然，经过数十年战争和经济制裁后，这个国家满目疮痍。但自那时起到现在，我们已经取得了长足的进步。然而，如果领导者们对国家和人民充满更多热情，而不是彼此之间争权夺利、像超级政治帮派一样斗争，我们在很多领域本可以取得更大的成就。
越南拥有一个国家所需的一切，发展潜力远超许多东盟邻国，甚至超过韩国。肥沃的土壤适合农业发展，漫长的海岸线利于渔业、旅游业及港口建设，几乎没有种族冲突，人民勤劳肯干，自然资源丰富，包括石油、天然气、稀有金属矿藏等；拥有丰富的太阳能、风能资源以及水力发电潜力，无重大自然灾害，不受台风侵袭（菲律宾承受了大部分台风灾害），中部地区的洪水主要是过度砍伐森林造成的后果。更重要的是，越南政治稳定，没有叛乱组织或军队试图推翻政府。
然而，拥有这一切的结果是什么呢？地区内最弱的货币；相较于泰国，游客回访率显著偏低；农产品品质不及泰国和马来西亚（如榴莲和各类水果）；向中国出口原油，却又从中国进口成品油，导致贸易逆差；允许中国开采铝土矿长达数十年；各级权力机构腐败横行；公共基础设施和交通状况较差；对警察和军队进行赤裸裸的思想灌输；房地产经济泡沫持续数十年，刚刚破裂；人才流失严重，因为政府职位往往被指定给熟人而非有能力的人担任。
我可以一直列举下去。就我个人而言，我对自己在这里的生活感到满意，因为我相当幸运。但是，从整体上看，我的国家原本是否可以更好呢？毫无疑问，绝对可以。我们本可以在某些领域超越泰国，也理应在亚洲成为下一个大放异彩的国家。
The low currency attract foreign investors. Especially in manufacturing industry. Its not a bad thing if the cost of living is relatively low. We basically just sell manpower for cheap, just like China 20 years ago.
低汇率会吸引外国投资者，特别是对于制造业来说。如果生活成本相对较低，这并不是坏事。我们基本上就是以低廉的价格出售劳动力，就像20年前的中国那样。
Great comments man, agree with your comments though if I may, the value of the currency doesn't indicate the strength of that currency, the inflation rate, which is roughly proportional to the exchange rate movement, is what indicate the strength of that currency.
The Dong barely moved since 2020, I would say it's hard as a rock if you were to look at what happened to other currencies in the region.
兄弟，你的评论很棒，我同意你的观点。不过我想补充一点，货币的价值并不直接体现其强弱，真正反映货币强弱的是通货膨胀率，它大致与汇率变动成正比。 自2020年以来，越南盾（Dong）几乎没有变动，如果对比该地区其他货币的表现，可以说越南盾坚如磐石。
You may be right, the dongs are hard.
Jokes aside, I don’t know much about finance but compare to Thai Baht, VN Dong has always been on a decline in exchange vs USD. Whereas Thai Baht fluctuations are very visible due to certain policies, political conflicts, etc, VN isn’t as transparent so I don’t really trust their statistics.
你可能说得对，越南盾（Dong）确实坚挺。 玩笑归玩笑，我不太懂金融，但如果与泰铢相比，越南盾在与美元的汇率上总是呈现下滑趋势。泰国由于某些政策和政治冲突等原因，泰铢的波动非常明显；而越南则不够透明，所以我并不十分信任他们的统计数据。
ok, so many things to unpack here but I'll try to give you some rundown of the current situation.
Thailand was booming in the 90s, became overconfident, got introduced to foreign short-term debt. Thailand in the 00s, slow down in manufacturing output, now neck-deep in foreign short-term debt, did not do a soft-recession to cut spending, instead do a little tomfoolery, went pedal to the metal with spending, went boom, asia went boom, baht plummet, then become a non-pegged currency, so fluctuate.
Vietnam was in the other kind of booming in the 90s with china, dong was litterally worthless because exchange between usd and vnd was embargoed. Came 1994, embargo gone, dong got its actual price for a dollar : 12000. Vietnam in 2000-2014, not good, industrialization subpar ( I mean, it is not easy when you started from bombed to the ass end and had to compete with 2000-2014 china for job ) dong got pushed up to 20k with various inflations. then US say to Vietnam : we gucci. Then Vietnam industrialize ( you know, making shoes, clothes then toys, then light electronics, then normal electronics, etc ) inflation not spiral, got dollar to spare, so they pegged the dong.
This is not a shady things, pegging is a completely normal thing to do, the Japanese did it, the Chinese do it, the Thai did it, you don't need to worry :)
the Dong depreciated 7% for 4 years of covid, the Baht 18%, similar to ph peso, ringgit, ind rupee. Also you don't need to worry about transparency, if they hold the currency hostage like Argentina, there will be an alternative currency to reflect the actual value of the currency, like the blue dollar.
这里有很多内容可以展开讨论，我会尽量给你梳理一下当前的情况。 90年代时，泰国经济繁荣，变得过于自信，开始接触外国短期债务。进入2000年代后，泰国制造业产值放缓，深陷于外国短期债务之中，并没有采取软性衰退策略来削减开支，反而玩了一些小把戏，加大了开支力度，最终导致经济崩溃，亚洲也随之受到波及，泰铢大幅下跌，随后转变为非挂钩货币，因此出现了较大的波动。
另一方面，90年代时越南与中国一同经历了一种不同类型的繁荣，当时越南盾几乎一文不值，因为美元兑越南盾的兑换被禁运。1994年禁运解除后，越南盾的实际价格为1美元兑12000越南盾。2000年至2014年间，越南的表现并不好，工业化进程低于标准（要知道，从被严重轰炸的起点出发，还要与那个时期的中国竞争就业岗位并非易事）。这段时间内，越南盾因各种通货膨胀压力升值至20,000越南盾兑1美元。后来美国表示支持越南，越南开始工业化进程（先是制造鞋类、服装，然后是玩具，接着是轻型电子产品，再到普通电子产品等），通胀并未失控，还积累了美元储备，于是越南选择了将越南盾与美元挂钩。
挂钩并不是什么见不得人的事情，完全是一种正常操作手段，日本、中国和泰国都曾这样做过，无需过分担心。在新冠疫情期间的四年里，越南盾贬值了7%，而泰铢贬值了18%，菲律宾比索、马来西亚林吉特、印度卢比也经历了类似跌幅。另外，关于透明度问题，如果越南像阿根廷那样操纵本国货币，市场将会出现替代货币来反映实际货币价值，例如阿根廷曾经出现过的“蓝美元”。
Not mention, among the weakest passports as well.
另外，越南的护照也是全球最弱之一。
That's not really your fault though. Like, you're not the UK where you make your passport weaker on purpose. That's other countries having outdated views of Vietnam.
Like, where I'm from, the visa process for Vietnamese citizens is insane despite a lot of Vietnamese people living here without ever causing any notable problems. Meanwhile a lot of countries whose citizens have a very bad record here (organised crime, terrorism, hybrid warfare) can get in a lot easier, if not entirely visa free. Passport/visa stuff is entirely our fault, we're just stupid and stuck in geopolitical cold war logic.
但这实际上并不是你们的错。你们又不是故意让自己的护照变弱，就像英国那样。这是其他国家对越南持有过时的看法导致的。 比如在我来自的国家，越南公民的签证流程极其繁琐，尽管有很多越南人在这里居住且从未引起任何重大问题。与此同时，许多国民在此地有严重不良记录的国家（如组织犯罪、恐怖主义和混合战争）的公民却能更容易甚至完全免签入境。护照和签证问题完全是我们这边的错误，我们只是愚蠢地困在了冷战时期的政治逻辑中。
Thailand has not been at war like Vietnam though.
不过泰国不像越南那样经历过长期战争。
just now
Inferior agricultural products than Thailand What makes you think that? Vietnam has much higher rice productivity per area.
F*cking A it can, i could have and should have exceed Thailand in some areas and for sure it should have been the next big thing in Asia.
It is the next big thing in Asia and it will surpass Thailand soon enough. Thailand received a lot of benefits from being an army base for the U.S. during the Indochina war when Vietnam was bombed to ground.
刚才有提到越南农产品不如泰国，你为什么会这样认为？实际上，越南的稻米单位面积产量要高于泰国。越南本来可以而且应该在某些方面超过泰国，而且它肯定会成为亚洲的下一个巨头。在印度支那战争期间，越南被炸成一片焦土，泰国作为美国的军事基地得到了很多好处。
weird mindsets are weird, it's hard to understand their pov if they ain't wanting to do the same for us.
let me get an example: people go here and some tend to treat a part of us Vietnamese like the one representing the whole race. when someone else points out things like "hey this is different in my place", the same group of people doesn't care.
like in this very sub, there used to be posts like "Vietnamese old neighborhood treats pets like shit". meanwhile i live near Tan Binh district where people freaking put beautiful clothes on their chó cỏ like a fashion show and feed them better beef than my lunch.
it's just weird. if you're having a good time here, i'm glad.
奇怪的心态总是令人费解，如果他们不愿意象我们一样做同样的事情，我们也很难理解他们的观点。
举个例子：有人来到这里，有些人倾向于将我们越南的一部分人当作全体越南人的代表。当别人指出“嘿，在我家乡情况有所不同”时，同一群人却毫不在意。
就在这同一个子版块中，以前有人发帖说“越南老城区的人对待宠物就像垃圾一样”。然而，我自己住在Tan Binh区附近，那里的人们给自家的宠物狗（chó cỏ）穿上漂亮的衣裳，就像举办时装秀一样，并且喂给它们比我午餐还好的牛肉。
这种现象真的很奇怪。如果你在这里过得愉快，我很高兴。
People are closed minded or just enjoy belittling others. I see a lot of them when I was visiting Vietnam. Most westerners always has this arrogant mindset while other Asians tend to be more acceptive and can relate. That’s my view.
人们要么思想封闭，要么喜欢贬低他人。我在访问越南时就遇到很多这样的人。大多数西方人总是怀有一种傲慢心态，而其他亚洲人则更愿意接受并能够产生共鸣。这是我个人的观点。
Maybe because they know things you don’t. There are many hidden layers to a society that one may not see at a casual glance and only notice upon immersing themselves into the local culture.
也许是因为他们知道一些你不知道的事情。社会有很多隐藏的层面，这些层面在随意观察时可能不会被发现，只有真正沉浸在当地文化中才能注意到。
Imo, the negativity almost exclusively comes from people who lived in VN a long time.
Most of the negativity comes from a place of frustration, rather than 'hating' Vietnam or the people.
For me, a lot of it comes back to seeing such promise and potential sabotaged and squandered by archaic and outdated cultural aspects.
The saddest thing for me is, although there is immense pride in one's house, money and possessions.....there is almost zero care (or even interest) for the general environment outside ones house.
That attitude, together with entrenched corruption, is ruining the country.
This isn't me hating on Vietnam or Vietnamese people. It's me being frustrated and sad.
It's not my place to try to change that I guess, or lecture people. I just say how I feel about what I see and experience.
在我看来，消极情绪几乎全部来自在越南长期生活的人。他们的大部分消极情绪源于沮丧，而非“讨厌”越南或越南人民。对我而言，很多不满来源于看到国家巨大的潜力和希望被一些过时、陈旧的文化观念所破坏和浪费。让我感到最悲哀的是，尽管人们对自家的房屋、金钱和财产有着无比的自豪感，但对家门外的环境却几乎毫不关心（甚至没有兴趣）。这种态度加上根深蒂固的腐败现象，正在毁掉这个国家。这并不是我对越南或越南人民有什么仇恨，而是我感到沮丧和难过。我想我无权去尝试改变这一切，或者教训别人，我只是表达自己对于所见所经历事情的感受。
Because they want it to remain a secret so other foreigners don’t raise the price . If you are here rn you are experiencing a welcoming society, cheap food, great tasting fruit , nice cafe culture , cool breeze , fast internet, and nice accommodation.
因为他们希望这个秘密保持下去，以免其他外国人涌入导致物价上涨。如果你现在正在越南，你会发现这是一个热情好客的社会，便宜的美食、美味可口的水果、惬意的咖啡馆文化、凉爽的微风，还有快速的互联网以及舒适的住宿条件。
Maybe cause you were just that. A visitor. Try working and living there and then post again. Every single country in the world looks amazing if you're a tourist.
可能是因为你仅仅只是一个游客。试着在那里工作并居住一段时间，然后再来发表看法吧。世界上每一个国家在你作为游客的时候看起来都是那么美好。
I've lived and worked in 7 different countries and have visited 27 in my life. Only one that i ended up feeling sorry for(not hating) is Vietnam, and maybe India a little bit. Idk where u come from but if one comes from the west, his mental and physical health are gonna go through many challenges.
Proof for what i'm saying, is that when I visited Vietnam as a tourist before i end up living there, i liked it a lot. Anyway, opinions are opinions.
我在7个不同的国家生活和工作过，一生中游历了27个国家。唯一一个让我感到遗憾（而非讨厌）的是越南，或许印度也有点。我不知道你来自哪里，但如果一个人来自西方，他的精神和身体健康将会面临很多挑战。为我所说的话提供证据的是，在我最终决定在越南居住之前，作为游客首次访问越南时，我非常喜欢那里。无论如何，每个人都有自己的观点。
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Sure.
I left vietnam at age 10.
Lived in Europe for 19 years.
Came back here 4 years ago.
I don't even want to go back to Europe. Don't want to live there. Not for me.
South east Asia is 100% better.13
当然。 我10岁时离开了越南。 在欧洲生活了19年。 四年前回到这里（越南）。 我现在甚至不想回欧洲，不想在那里生活，那不适合我。 东南亚对我来说要好上100%。
Much like most Viet Kieus, living la vida loca in SE Asia while earning western money can make people delusional. You don't have to wake up at 05:00 AM and go back home at 21:00 while having to feed over five people with 8 million. I don't see the meaning of your answer and I don't really care to be honest. Have fun whatever you do.
和大多数海外越南人一样，在东南亚享受着奢华生活，同时赚取西方的收入，这可能会让人产生错觉。你不必早上5点起床，晚上9点才回家，还要用800万（货币单位未明确）来养活五口之家。我并不理解你的回答有什么意义，老实说，我也不太关心。无论你做什么，开心就好。
The only country that you happen to be sorry for out of your 27 countries as a great "globe trotting" man is the one where you spend the most on reddit talking shit about it. Can't even charge it any rent to live inside your head.
作为一个自称游历过27个国家的环球旅行者，你唯一感到抱歉的那个国家，恰好是你在Reddit上花最多时间吐槽的地方。而且这个话题似乎还免费占据了你的大脑空间，连“租金”都没收。
Your cheap vacation was serviced by underpaid and overwork housemaid, waiters/waitressess, drivers... Whom could never be able to afford the very thing they created
你的廉价假期是由低薪且过度劳累的女佣、服务员、司机等提供的服务，他们自己却无力承担他们所创造的服务。
Well, yeah, obviously. That's the case if you go on a holiday anywhere but the wealthiest of the wealthy countries. Pretty much anywhere except for Europe north of the Alps this is true, the only other real exceptions would be maybe Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. You think a waiter or a housemaid in the US or in Greece can afford to go on holiday? Let alone an overseas holiday?
Of course if you can afford to go on an overseas holiday you are in a privileged position. But so are expats living in a developing country who do most of the ranting here.
对，很明显，如果你去除了最富裕国家以外的地方度假，这种情况普遍存在。除了阿尔卑斯山脉以北的欧洲地区，几乎所有地方都是如此，可能只有澳大利亚、新西兰和加拿大算是例外。你觉得美国或希腊的服务员或女佣能负担得起度假吗？更别提出国度假了？ 当然，能负担得起出国度假的人处于特权地位。但在发展中国家生活的外籍人士也是如此，他们在这里发泄了很多不满。
it's because your "cheap holiday" is ultra-luxury to the average person. of course things are going to be pleasant in the best locales. I could say the same thing about ukraine, palestine, etc.12
那是因为你的“廉价假期”对于普通人来说是超豪华体验。在最好的旅游地，事情自然会很顺利。我也可以对乌克兰、巴勒斯坦等地这么说，那里也有愉快的一面。
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Every single country in the world looks amazing if you're a tourist
That really isnt true lol.7
“世界上每一个国家在你作为游客的时候看起来都是那么美好”——这其实并不准确，哈哈。
Meh people working there as an expat that teach English merely based on the fact they are white and don't have many other meaningful qualifications isn't the same as a local driving Grab all day
那些仅仅因为是白人、没有多少其他有意义的资格而在当地做外教的人，并不能和每天开出租车（Grab）为生的当地人相提并论。
the irony of you being a foreigner with a guaranteed job lecturing OP lM-1
讽刺的是，你作为一个有保障工作的外国人却在这里教导原帖作者，真是让人笑掉大牙。
not necessarily. besides visa issues, work for foreigners in Asia as a whole is so much more "accessible" due to asian people undervaluing their own work force. that's the point I'm getting at
不一定。除了签证问题，亚洲整体上对于外国人的工作机会更容易获得，原因在于亚洲人普遍低估了自己的劳动力价值。这就是我想表达的观点。
Even with all that extra privileges, they still have problems. That is his point.
即便拥有所有这些额外的特权，他们仍然存在问题，这是他（原帖作者）想要表达的点。
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and my point still stands - foreigners have it easy all things considered for jobs just because of where they came from :)
我的观点依然站得住脚——考虑到各种因素，外国人找工作之所以相对轻松，仅仅是因为他们的出身地。
You don't see the negative issues as serious because you're just visiting here. But try living for about 5-10 years and you'll know why.14
当你只是来旅游时，你不会觉得负面问题有多严重。但是试着在这里生活5到10年，你就会知道原因了。
Why move somewhere and live there for 5-10 years if you don't like it though?
Like, I know that I'd probably have issues living in HCMC or Hanoi for that long unless things massively improved. I'm used to being able to leave the city I live in within 30 minutes to an hour and be out in the wilderness. I'd miss that if I moved, which is one reason why I don't want to move permanently (even if the public transport of the city where I live now is barely a sliver more functional than the one in HCMC or Hanoi. I want to come for a couple years because I want to do research, but most likely not permanently.
I also don't see how people would so completely lose sight of the positive if they're confronted with the negative more strongly. I have lived in 4 different countries, like I know that you don't notice some negative things as strongly if you're only there a few weeks, but I've never grown to hate one of the places I lived in like that. I still regularly visit the places where I used to live because I've come to appreciate the upsides even if I wouldn't want to live there permanently.
如果你不喜欢某个地方，为什么还要在那里居住5到10年呢？
比如我知道，除非情况有大幅度改善，否则在胡志明市或河内长期居住可能会遇到不少问题。我已经习惯了在30分钟至1小时内就能离开我居住的城市，去到野外。如果搬家，我会怀念这一点，这也是我不愿意永久搬家的一个原因（即使我现在所在城市的公共交通设施仅比胡志明市或河内的稍微好一点点）。我想来这里待上几年是因为我想做研究工作，但很可能不会是永久居住。
同时，我也无法理解人们是如何在面对更强烈的负面因素时完全忽略了积极面的。我在四个不同的国家生活过，我知道如果你只在那里待几周，就不会那么强烈地注意到一些负面事物。但我从未像那样对曾经居住的地方产生厌恶之情。尽管我不再想在那里永久居住，但我仍然会定期回到我曾经住过的地方，因为我已经学会欣赏它们的优点。
You have that mindset (seeing positive things in negative things) because you grew up in a positive educational environment. And more importantly: you have enough ability (money, knowledge, courage) to go to many places and see many things. Most people living in a negative environment in Vietnam (poor in money, education) do not have the same conditions as you (traveling to many places)
你之所以能从负面事物中看到积极的一面，是因为你在一种积极的教育环境中长大，并且更重要的是：你有足够的能力和资源（金钱、知识和勇气）去很多地方见识不同的事物。而在越南生活在消极环境中的大多数人（在经济和教育方面贫穷）并不具备像你一样到处旅行的条件。
enjoy the honeymoon. vn is a great place for cheap/unskilled labour and commodities, sucks for everything else.3
享受蜜月期吧。越南对于廉价/非技术劳动力和商品而言是个好地方，但在其他方面就不太理想了。
"Vietnam is obviously not good but it's nowhere near as bad as places like Thailand where you get locked up for 40+ years for even so much as mild criticism of the monarchy, or have death squads sent after you if you leave the country. Vietnam doesn't do that shit"
fafy. you'll be in for a very unpleasant surprise.
it's not a grand conspiracy mate, i first started visiting se asia in the 90s, been operating in vn just shy of a decade. the "negative" stuff you hear is very real.
the fact that the return visitor rate is a mere 5% (one of the lowest on earth) speaks volumes. there isn't some mass delusion/hysteria going on.
good on you for having a "positive impression" as a tourist. stick around for a while, you'll see some shite.14
“显然越南不是很好，但也没有泰国那么糟糕，在泰国哪怕是对王室进行轻微批评也可能被关押40多年，或者离开该国后会被派出暗杀队追杀。越南不会做这种事。”——这种观点是错误的。你会遭遇一个非常不愉快的惊喜。这不是什么大规模阴谋论，我从90年代就开始访问东南亚，近十年来一直在越南。你听到的那些“负面”内容都是非常真实的。游客回访率仅为5%这一事实说明了很多问题（这是全球最低的回访率之一），并不是大众的幻觉或歇斯底里。 很高兴作为游客你能对越南有积极的印象。多待一段时间，你会看到一些不尽如人意的事情。
Vietnam, in name, is a socialist country led by a .....st party. And in western countries it is by default bad.
Many Vietnamese oversea are remnants of the uncanny Republic of South Vietnam. So they always say bad stuffs about modern Vietnam, mostly untrue or no longer true.
In many situations, Vietnamese people goes abroad to work or study and their behaviors, rightly judged, are terrible. And that of course gives Vietnamese people in general very bad reputation.
For a long period of time during and after the War Against American Invasion, America and other countries under their influences in the UN and their organizations always paint a very ugly picture about Vietnam, about how "inhumane, authoritarian and fascist" the government was to justify their invasion. And it imprinted in the brain of many people despite most were debunked in the recent years.12
名义上，越南是一个由共产党领导的社会主义国家，在西方国家中，这默认就被视为不好。许多海外越南人是昔日南越政权下的残余分子，所以他们总是说现代越南的坏话，其中大部分要么不真实，要么早已过时。 在许多情况下，越南人出国工作或学习时，他们的行为举止经常受到负面评价，这也给越南人整体带来了很糟糕的声誉。 在抗美战争期间及之后很长一段时间内，美国及其影响下的联合国和其他组织总是在描绘越南非常丑陋的画面，声称政府有多么“不人道、专制和法西斯”，以此为入Q越南辩解。尽管近年来许多说法已被揭穿，但这些言论仍然在许多人脑海中留下了深刻印象。
VNCH people still think Vietnam is like the 80s when they left the country. Some of the older guys still think Vietnamese don't have fridges at home and still ride bicycles to work if they're rich enough.11
越南共和国（南越）的一些人仍然认为越南像他们80年代离开时那样落后。有些年纪较大的人还认为，即使越南人足够富裕，家里也没有冰箱，出行能骑上自行车就算富有了。
Yeah I suspected it was mostly down to that. For me it was more a demonstration that while socialism doesn't create the utopia it proclaims to be, it still is the best development strategy by fucking far. Never been in a developing country that had such little rates of extreme poverty, such low crime rate and such relatively high average living standard.
Cheers to Vietnam, you got a lot of things right.
I grew up in a place with a large Vietnamese immigrant community and even went to secondary school with two Vietnamese kids. The Vietnamese immigrants are, at least in my country of origin, not known to cause any sort of trouble. Quite the opposite they would be seen as a very positive example of integration.3
我猜想主要是这个原因造成的。对我而言，这更像是一种证明，尽管社会主义并未实现其所宣称的乌托邦，但它仍然是迄今为止最佳的发展策略。我还从未见过哪个发展中国家能有如此低的极端贫困率、如此低的犯罪率以及相对较高的平均生活水平。干杯，越南，你们在很多方面做得很好。
我在一个拥有大量越南移民群体的地方长大，甚至和两个越南孩子一起上过中学。至少在我的祖国，越南移民并不是以制造麻烦而知名，相反，他们被视为成功融入社会的积极典范。
Modern socialism is very distinctive from its original form described by Marx, despite maintaining the base motto, that people living in a social structure should all contribute for the good and development of that structure and other people living in it based on their exceed wealth. And that I don't think anyone can argue in good faith as a bad thing.
And I think you misunderstood me about number 3. I didn't really mean Vietnamese immigration, I mostly mentioned Vietnamese people born and grew here, then came abroad for a period to work and/or study. Many cases like temporary workers in Korea legally overstayed their Visa to work, or in case of my friend who studied for his Master degree in America, many Vietnamese students caught cheating in exams or assignments made the professors there extremely skeptical about him and other Vietnamese students.4
现代社会主义与马克思最初描述的形式有很大的区别，尽管保留了基本宗旨——生活在社会结构中的人们应当根据他们的多余财富，为了该结构和其他居民的良好与发展做出贡献。这一点，我认为没人能够诚实地提出反对意见，将其视为坏事。 我想你误解了我对第3点的意思。我并非特指越南移民，而是主要提到那些在越南出生并在当地成长，之后出国一段时间工作或学习的人群。例如，在韩国合法打工后却逾期滞留工作的越南临时工，或者如我的朋友在美国攻读硕士学位的情况，许多越南学生因考试作弊或作业抄袭让那里的教授对包括他在内的所有越南学生极度怀疑。
It depends on what you see. Sometimes, the older generation does create a bad image of Vietnamese people. Loud spitting in public is one example.
By the way, I am sitting in Vietnam and agree 100% with what you posted.2
这确实取决于你所观察到的事物。有时候老一辈的行为确实会给越南人树立起不太好的形象，比如在公共场所大声吐痰就是一个例子。 顺便说一下，我现在就在越南，并且完全同意你的观点。
lmfao, painfully unaware.
nearly 1 out of 4 vietnamese don't have indoor plumbing or toilets. 1 out of 3 people are infected with intestinal parasites. basic health problems like tuberculosis, malaria, dengue, rabies, etc. aren't sorted. it's an incredibly impoverished country, hcm/hn are basically the elite.
your take is like someone visiting pyongyang on a curated tour, and proclaiming the dprk's on par with south korea.
哈哈，真是无知得令人痛苦。几乎每四个越南人中就有一个没有室内卫生设施或厕所，三分之一的人感染了肠道寄生虫。像结核病、疟疾、登革热、狂犬病等基础健康问题尚未得到解决。越南是一个极其贫穷的国家，胡志明市和河内基本上是精英阶层所在地。你的看法就像是在一个精心安排的行程中访问平壤后，宣称朝鲜与韩国处于同一水平。
You visited. That's very different to living here, it's death by a thousand cuts if you can't adapt to a degree that makes sens
A superficial experience won't lead to really indepth analysis will it
你只是来参观过，这与在这里生活是截然不同的。如果你不能适应到一定程度，那就像遭受千刀万剐般的痛苦。表面的体验不会带来真正深入的分析吧。
Everyone loves perfection. They have no idea what Vietnam looked like 30 years ago.
每个人都追求完美，但他们不知道越南30年前的样子是什么样的。
I have lived in Scandinavia and I can tell you, perfection (or as close to it as it gets) has its downsides too. Nice place and almost everything in terms of public services runs perfectly but the social atmosphere is so sterile...I'd rather deal with a bit of imperfection and chaos. Funerals in some countries have a more cheerful atmosphere than what passes for a public festival in Sweden or Finland, and I'm not even exaggerating here.
我在斯堪的纳维亚半岛生活过，我可以告诉你，接近完美的地方（或者说实际上已经很完美的地方）也有其弊端。那里是一个美好的地方，公共服务业几乎运行得非常完美，但社会氛围却过于冷淡...我宁愿接受一些不完美和混乱。在某些国家，葬礼的气氛比瑞典或芬兰的公共节日还要欢快，而且我这里没有夸张。
My friend from Finland lives in Vietnam and he says he'd rather die than move back lol
我的一个芬兰朋友现在住在越南，他说他宁愿死也不愿搬回去。
Lived in Sweden, visited Finland regularly because my ex lived there...checks out.
曾在瑞典居住，因为前女友住在那里，所以经常去芬兰拜访...这种说法确实符合实际情况。
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Living in Finland now, just tryna survive everyday & hope that my mental wont break before my annual visit to Vietnam :'(3
我现在住在芬兰，每天都在努力求生存，希望在每年回越南探亲之前，我的精神状态不要崩溃...
Hej kompis!
Im a ”Viet Kieu” from Sweden. I just recently moved back to Vietnam. Dont listen to these redditors you are absolutely right about your assessement. I also lurk this subreddit and I can tell you it aint that bad, Ive noticed most people complaining either dont speak the language or have some sort of skill issue.
The future is bright for us young professionals and there is currently programs running to get overseas Vietnamese to move back home. Google come home pho good. Any Viet Kieu ready to drop the “western lifestyle” and embrace the vibrant Vietnamese culture should deff check it out!
嘿，朋友！我是来自瑞典的“越侨”。最近刚搬回越南。别听这些Reddit用户的抱怨，你在评估上的观点完全正确。我也在这个子版块潜水，我可以告诉你，其实并没有那么糟糕。我发现大多数抱怨的人要么不懂当地语言，要么在某些技能方面存在问题。 对于我们年轻的专业人士来说，未来充满光明，目前还有旨在鼓励海外越南人回国的项目，比如搜索“come home pho good”就能找到相关信息。任何准备好放弃“西方生活方式”，拥抱充满活力的越南文化的越侨都应该去看看这个项目！
Nothing better than the privilages kids (being able to travel abroad is a luxury for Vietnamese, let along living in one) come back and takes all the job opportunities from the natives-who-cannot-leave-the-country, people who studied aborad are always privileges in job seeking in Vietnam 。Edit: have the privilages to travel abroad -> takes jobs from people who dont have that privileges -> they end up dont have any money to travel aborad to achieve that privilage -> lives prompt to doom
没有什么比那些享有特权的孩子（能够出国旅行对越南人来说就是一种奢侈，更别提在国外生活了）回到国内后抢占本国无法离开国家的本地人的工作机会更糟糕了。在越南，有海外学习背景的人在求职时总是享有优势。编辑补充：拥有出国旅行的特权 -> 抢走没有这种特权的人的工作 -> 导致这些人没有钱出国获得同样的特权 -> 他们的生活仿佛注定陷入困境。
What did it look like 30 years ago?
30年前越南是什么样子的？
very bad, people living with a public restroom among a whole neighborhood, which is not properly housed so the whole neighborhood had to get used to the smell
people so skinny and so thin, their growth and their children's were propably stunted to a good degree
and that was 20-15 years ago backwards children were encouraged to study under "đèn đom đóm" (i still remember the commercial from Dutch Lady or something)
edit: things started picking up from 2005 something... i think
非常糟糕，整个社区共用一个公共卫生间，卫生条件差到整个街区的人都必须习惯那种气味。人们瘦骨嶙峋，营养不良严重，他们和他们的孩子的成长很可能受到很大阻碍。大约20至15年前，孩子们甚至被鼓励在煤油灯下学习（我还记得荷兰乳牛或其他品牌做的广告）。编辑补充：大概从2005年开始情况开始好转...
Drugs, high illiteracy rate, FULRO, poor quality of life, outdated health services, economic stagnation due to the collapse of the Soviet unx, etc. In the 90s, many people in HCMC (Saigon) had to live in temporary houses along the river.
毒品泛滥、文盲率高、FULRO问题（越南少数民族反政府武装组织）、生活质量低下、医疗服务过时，由于苏联解体导致经济停滞不前等。在90年代，胡志明市（西贡）很多人不得不在河边临时搭建的房屋中生活。
The more annoying parts of Vietnam that tend to eat at people take longer to notice than some of the annoying parts of other places. As a visitor you seemed to miss them (you didn't write about them)
越南那些令人烦恼的地方往往需要更长的时间才能让人注意到，相比其他地方的一些烦人之处，作为游客，你似乎错过了它们（你在帖子里并没有提到这些）。
The average Vietnamese know jackshit about other country beside the US and other first world countries, I bet most native in this sub don't know a single countries you are listing, OP.
And we constantly compare ourselves to the like of the US and be extreme self-critical about our country, strive for a better tomorrow or whatever, strive to be like our big brother America,Japan.
Every country are self-critical about their own country no? Go to other country subreddit and it will be equally as negative.
Plus Vietnamese on the internet are like rabid dog, whether it on Reddit or other social media like Facebook. I'm starting to see dozen of comments being dismissive of OP opinion already, typical Vietnamese behaviour.
平均而言，除了美国和其他发达国家外，大多数越南人对其他国家几乎一无所知，我敢打赌这个子版块里的大多数本土越南人可能都不知道你所列出的任何一个国家。而且我们总是拿自己与美国等国家比较，对自己的国家极度自省，力求明天更好，努力向美国、日本这样的“大哥”看齐。每个国家都会自我批评自己的国家，不是吗？去其他国家的Reddit子版块看看，同样会有消极的声音。此外，越南人在互联网上就像狂犬病患者一样，无论是在Reddit还是Facebook等社交媒体上。我已经看到数十条评论对原帖作者的观点不屑一顾，这是典型的越南人行为。
I totally agree on all points. I think Vietnam needs a bit of work and it could get to a really good place. But this won't happen on its own, everyone needs to pull in the same direction and the negativity kinda undermines that.
我完全同意你的所有观点。我认为越南需要一些改进，然后就能达到一个非常好的状态。但这不会自行发生，每个人都需要朝着同一个方向努力，而这种消极情绪实际上削弱了这一目标的实现。
Because people love to complaint man; to be specific, complaint about their own country. Having a look at lots of nation’s sub here it’s always easier to see complaints than compliments. That’s sad. I’m Vietnamese living abroad, I dont join this sub as it’s too negative about everything. This post is just suggested on my wall. But I’m happy that as a visitor you have a neutral and wise view about the country. Hope you enjoy your trip in my beautiful country my friend!
因为人们总是喜欢抱怨，尤其是关于自己的国家。浏览Reddit上很多国家的子版块时，你会发现负面的评论往往比正面评价更容易看到，这令人感到遗憾。我是一名在国外生活的越南人，由于这个子版块对所有事情都过于消极，所以我没有加入。这篇帖子只是在我的推荐墙上出现。但我很高兴你作为一名游客对我国持有中立且明智的看法。希望你在我的美丽祖国旅途愉快，朋友！
You can blame social media. Negative/scandalous things get clicks/makes money, so that’s what the algorithm prioritizes. Reddit, although better than some, is no exception.
VN is not without its problems (99.9% stemming from high-@corruption), but overall it’s a pretty great place.
你可以将这种现象归咎于社交媒体。负面的、丑闻性质的内容能吸引点击量并带来收益，因此算法会优先推送这类内容。Reddit虽然在某些方面做得比较好，但也并非例外。
越南并非没有问题（99.9%的问题源于高层腐败），但总体来说，它仍然是一个相当不错的地方。
First, you are a typical rich, healthy expat/tourist who only interact minimally with the system from a position of privilege and wealth. Just like living in the Middle Age doesn't suck as much if you get born into the nobility, having money and being foreigner in Vietnam is a good experience.
Second, you said that Vietnam has done a lot more with much less, but then use South American countries as comparison. It is a valid comparison, no doubt, but it's lacking without a comparison against other East Asia/South East Asia countries that are/were doing better (Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia...). It is important because the majority of Vietnamese interactions with foreigners are with either the Asian groups previously mentioned or European/North American, so the comparison against South America is not very relevant to the general populace's psyche.
首先，你是一个典型的富裕、健康的外籍人士/游客，仅以特权和财富为基础与当地体系进行有限的互动。这就像在中世纪出生在贵族家庭不会过得太糟一样，在越南拥有金钱并作为外国人生活，会是一段不错的体验。
其次，你说越南在资源相对较少的情况下取得了更多成就，并且以南美国家作为比较对象。无疑，这是一个有效的对比方式，
但在没有与那些发展更好或已经取得显著发展的东亚/东南亚国家（如韩国、台湾、马来西亚等）进行对比的情况下，这样的比较就不够全面，缺乏说服力。
这一点很重要，因为越南人与外国人交往的大多数情况是与前述亚洲国家或欧洲/北美国家的人打交道，因此与南美国家的对比对于普通民众的心理认知而言并不十分相关。若要更准确地了解越南的发展水平和进步程度，应当将其与相近文化背景及发展历程的东亚和东南亚邻国进行比较。
Only 3 large countries in South East Asia fare marginally better than Vietnam and that's Thailand Indonesia and Malaysia. Singapore and Brunei are small and kind of an outlier.
Sure not having money sucks. But I'd rather be a homeless person in Vietnam than be a homeless person in, say, Germany where there is a 30% I would just freeze to death come winter.
And a perception of a country shouldn't be influenced by money. Because if you just boil things down to money then being poor will suck pretty much every where and being rich will be a breeze everywhere. It doesn't exactly help the conversation.
东南亚地区只有三个国家在某些方面比越南略好一些，那就是泰国、印度尼西亚和马来西亚。新加坡和文莱较小，且属于特殊情况。 当然，没有钱的确很糟糕，但与其在德国这样的地方成为无家可归者（冬季有30%的概率会被冻死），我宁愿在越南做一个流浪者。对一个国家的认知不应仅受金钱影响，因为如果只关注金钱的话，那么无论何处贫穷都将是艰难的，而富有则在哪都会轻松。这样并不利于深入探讨问题。
I'd take Indonesia out of that for sure. Yes, economic living standard is better, but with how much control the Islamists are now having over public life and knowing it's likely to just get worse...yeah, fuck no. I'd rather take a somewhat lower living standard than risk being stoned to death for having sex.
Even as a tourist (if you go one step outside the very touristy areas) it is noticeable how much of a death grip the religious fanatics have on that country, I can't even imagine how bad it is if you live there.
我确定会把印尼排除在外。虽然经济生活水平可能更高，但是考虑到伊斯兰主义者现在对公共生活的控制力以及这种情况很可能变得更糟……不，我宁可接受稍低的生活水平，也不愿冒着因性行为被石刑处死的风险。 即使是作为游客（如果你走出非常热门的旅游区域），也能明显感受到宗教狂热分子对该国的严密控制，我甚至无法想象在那里生活会有多糟糕。
you're completely mental if think malaysia's "marginally better". it's effectively a high-income country, with a standard of living vn could only dream of. if not for covid, it would crossed that threshold a few years ago. it'll happen 2024 or 2025 at the latest.
its light years ahead of vn in every possible regard. not even remotely in the same league. civilised. developed. robust infrastructure. rule of law. democracy. health and safety standards. hygiene. education. gdp per capita is three times greater. etc. etc. etc.
just compare the hdi between the two. malaysia's on par with europe, viet nam is africa-tier.
please, stop taking drugs, they're severely impairing your judgement.
如果你认为马来西亚仅仅是“略微更好”，那你的想法简直是疯了。实际上，马来西亚已经是一个高收入国家，拥有越南只能梦想达到的生活标准。如果不是新冠疫情的影响，它几年前就已经跨越了那个门槛，最迟在2024或2025年也会实现这一目标。马来西亚在所有可能的层面上都远远领先于越南，它们根本就不在一个级别上。马来西亚是文明、发达的，拥有强大的基础设施、法治、民主制度、健康与安全标准、卫生条件、教育水平，其人均GDP更是越南的三倍之多等等。只需要比较一下两国的人类发展指数（HDI）就可以看出，马来西亚与欧洲相当，而越南则处在非洲级别的水平。拜托，停止吸毒吧，这严重损害了你的判断力。
And you're completely mental if you think Malaysia is "light years ahead" of vietnam. Out of the 2 flowery languages, mine is still far more accurate than yours. Unless your "light years" mean something else in a completely different universe where the laws of physics are absurdly different to ours.
Malaysia isn't a high income country. It's upper middle income. Vietnam is lower middle income.
3x gdp per capita doesn't mean "light years ahead it's not even in the same league". Norways gdp per capita is 3x that of Czech Republic but nobody will say norway is "light years ahead of CR". They're often grouped together in similar leagues.
Maybe go outside and jerk off that hate boner you have for vietnam. It's impairing your judgment.
如果你认为马来西亚比越南领先“光年”，那你的观点也是完全错误的。在我们俩夸张的说法中，至少我的描述更接近事实。除非你所指的“光年”在另一个物理规律迥异的宇宙中具有不同的含义。 马来西亚并非高收入国家，而是上中等收入国家，而越南是下中等收入国家。人均GDP高出3倍并不意味着“遥遥领先、不在同一个级别”。例如，挪威的人均GDP是捷克共和国的3倍，但没人会说挪威与捷克相差“光年”。它们通常会被归为相似的发展水平。 也许你应该出去冷静一下，因为你对越南的厌恶情绪已经影响了你的判断。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yes, and that's not even getting into the political issues. Malaysia obviously isn't as bad as Indonesia or Brunei but still 4 out of 13 regions of the country are governed by a fascist party that wants to kill the gays as well as everyone who has sex outside of marriage, and lock women in the kitchen. They literally support the Taliban ffs. And like in Indonesia chances are it's only going to get worse. No thanks. Being from a European country where this kind of madness is also gaining traction among some immigrant communities, I can tell you it adds a lot to your quality of life not having to deal with that kind of people.
(And I don't mean Musli... in general, if anyone thinks I'm insinuating. It's a specific version of that, many Musli... want nothing to do with it)
没错，而且这还没提到政治问题。虽然马来西亚显然没有印尼或文莱那么糟糕，但该国13个地区中有4个是由一个法西斯主义政党统治的，他们主张杀死同性恋者以及所有婚外性行为者，并希望将女性关在厨房里。他们实际上支持塔利班。正如在印尼一样，这种情况很可能只会变得更糟。不，谢谢。作为一个欧洲国家的人，在我们的某些移民社区也出现了类似的疯狂趋势，我可以告诉你，不用面对这类人可以大大提高生活质量。
（如果有人觉得我在暗示，我并不是针对所有的穆斯林，而是特指一种特定的极端版本，许多穆斯林并不认同这种观念）
el oh el ，upper middle-income.gdp per capita in 2023 malysia is a bee's dick over $13k usd. it's already at the cusp.
it's increasing to over $17k usd by 2028.
not only are malays insanely rich compared to viets, the country is far more developed in every single regard. you can't even begin to remotely compare the two. not to mention civilised british culture/behaviour, there aren't endless stories about being scammed/defrauded.
ffs, they've been dealing in semiconductors for half a century, fabs are nothing new, etc. well-developed automotive industry. robust metro systems. excellent motorways. the services sector is highly competitive (along with the country in general, one of the easiest places on earth to do business).
people aren't burning rubbish everywhere. there isn't a constant rotten smell in the air. horns blaring non-stop. karaoke and construction noise all day and night. people aren't riding around on knackered/ancient motorbikes, nor are the streets filled with desperate people hawking their wares (or flooded every time it rains). vn can't even sort basic public health/infrastructure, it's a complete shitshow. quality of life is atrocious. building standards are dismal, just look at the property collapse a few weeks ago (censored by government, scrubbed from the internet). zero transparency or rule of law.
most of kl is virtually indistinguishable from singapore, and in many regards superior as things were built more recently.
lololololol. vn is in the stone age mate, doing grubby low-value work for the Chinese/koreans.
you're completely delusional. even force 47 isn't this ridiculous.
关于马来西亚是上中等收入国家这一点，呵呵。2023年马来西亚的人均GDP已经接近13000美元，几乎达到了高收入国家的门槛，并且预计到2028年将增长至超过17000美元。与越南相比，马来西亚人极其富有，而且在各个领域的发展程度都远超越南。两国根本无法相提并论，更不用说英国文明文化/行为的影响了。在马来西亚没有层出不穷的诈骗欺诈故事。他们半个世纪以来一直在半导体行业耕耘，晶圆厂对他们来说并不新鲜；汽车工业发达、地铁系统完善、高速公路优秀、服务业高度竞争（整体国家环境易于商业运营，是地球上最容易做生意的地方之一）。马来西亚不会到处焚烧垃圾，空气中没有持续的腐臭味，也没有没完没了的喇叭声、全天候不间断的卡拉OK和建筑噪音。人们不再骑着破旧或古老的摩托车，街头也不会充斥着拼命叫卖商品的人（或者每次下雨都会淹水）。越南连基本的公共卫生设施和基础设施都无法妥善处理，整个国家就像一场混乱的大戏。生活质量极差，建筑标准低劣，看看几周前发生的那起被政府审查、从互联网上删除的房地产倒塌事件就知道了。透明度和法治几乎为零。
吉隆坡大部分地区实际上与新加坡几乎没有区别，在很多方面甚至更为优越，因为那里的设施都是最近新建的。
哈哈哈哈哈，越南还处在石器时代，只为中国人和韩国人做些低端的工作。
你的观点完全脱离现实，即使是Force 47（注：可能是指某组织或力量）也不会这么荒谬。
Okay, so SEA has 11 countries. Minus Vietnam that's 10 left. 2 doesn't count, so 8. "Only 3" is better, which means Vietnam land squarely on the middle of the pack. I wonder why there are negativity?
And a perception of a country shouldn't be influenced by money.
In a perfect world it shouldn't be, yes. But the fact is that how much money you have change the way you interact with the system. Traffic doesn't suck as much if you get a nice house close to your office. Hospital crowding is avoidable when you go to the private clinics. Education system sucks? Just send your children overseas or to "international schools".
东南亚共有11个国家，减去越南还有10个。排除不相关的2个后剩下8个。“只有3个”比越南更好，这意味着越南位于中游位置。我不禁好奇为什么会有这么多负面情绪？对于一个国家的认知不应受金钱影响。 在一个理想的世界中确实如此，但事实是，你拥有多少钱会改变你与体系互动的方式。如果你有一栋靠近办公室的好房子，交通拥堵就不会那么让人烦恼。通过去私人诊所就诊可以避免医院拥挤。教育系统糟糕？那就把孩子送到海外或者国际学校读书好了。
Korea, Taiwan and to some extent Malaysia got billions of US aid though. Billions that should have gone to Vietnam as reparation for the war crimes and the damage caused, might I add. Not exactly a fair comparison. I did mention Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia...and except for Thailand (which as I said is worse politically in some ways, but not economically or socially)...yeah, Vietnam wins that comparison.
And while I am in a very comfortable financial position now, I grew up poor. I didn't interact as much as I'd have wanted to with working class locals, mainly because of the language barrier, but I still am not as blind to the effects poverty has on people as someone born with money would be.
确实，韩国、台湾在一定程度上以及马来西亚都曾获得数十亿美元的美国援助，而这些原本应该作为对越南战争罪行及所造成的损害的赔偿。因此，这样的比较并不公平。我之前提到了泰国、菲律宾和印尼，在除了泰国（政治上在某些方面可能更糟，但在经济和社会发展方面并非如此）之外的对比中，越南确实表现得更好。
虽然我现在处于非常舒适的财务状况，但我成长于贫困之中。由于语言障碍，我与当地工人阶级的交流并没有达到我希望的程度，但相比那些出生就拥有财富的人来说，我对贫穷给人们带来的影响并不会视而不见。
Korea, Taiwan and to some extent Malaysia got billions of US aid though. Billions that should have gone to Vietnam as reparation for the war crimes and the damage caused, might I add. Not exactly a fair comparison.
It's such a nice position to be able to grandstand about how a place got rich/got poor/got bombed. For the people living here, the things that matter are not the "how" part.
I grew up poor
Not in Vietnam.
am not as blind
Even if you do your utmost to be able to connect to the plight of the working class in the city, I'll tell you one thing that will blow your mind: The Urbanization rate in Vietnam is only 39%. Yes, not even half that of Argentina (92%) or Brazil (88%) so even the "poor" you meet in the city are still not the most unfortunate ones.
确实，韩国、台湾在很大程度上以及马来西亚都得到了美国数十亿美元的援助，而这些资金本应该作为对越南战争罪行和破坏的赔偿。这样的比较并不完全公正。
对于旁观者来说，站在道德制高点讨论一个地方如何富裕或贫穷、如何遭受轰炸是一件容易的事。但对于生活在这里的人来说，真正重要的是“现实状况”而非其成因。
我成长于贫困之中，但并非出生在越南。
即使你尽全力去理解和体会越南城市中工人阶级的困境，我可以告诉你一件可能会让你惊讶的事情：越南的城市化率仅为39%。这意味着它甚至远低于阿根廷（92%）或巴西（88%）。因此，你在城市中遇到的“穷人”并不是最不幸的一群人，因为还有更多生活在农村地区的人们面临着更加严峻的生活挑战。
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Eh that's probably fair, though I've been outside the major cities for quite a bit (drove around Hoa Binh province on a motorbike, for example).
Can't say I know or understand everything, but what I do see is that what qualifies as poor in Vietnam is still much better than what qualifies as poor in like India, or most Latin American countries.1
嗯，你说得有道理，虽然我也在大城市之外的地方待过不少时间（例如曾在河江省骑摩托车游览）。
我不能说我对所有事情都了解或理解透彻，但我所观察到的是，在越南被视为贫穷的标准，仍然远比印度或大多数拉丁美洲国家要好很多。
Just to be on point, Vietnam haven't have a big war in 2,3 near decade. So, yeah they just boring and trying to blame everything. Because life is too good for them
Anyway, VN is great compared to others like Japan still Man first Woman slave or Korea still trying to war with each other and the government is just a clown to other big gangsters, US (gun),..., Palestine vs Israel, children die everywhere, no food, no money, no home, no electricity,... Russian vs Ukrainian, US vs Texas,...
I mean Vietnamese literally live their best compared to others but still don't seem to be perfect for them. They want a high lever of perfection, (most people) still living normal lives, no guns, no terrorism, the government is friendly with other countries, US, China, Russia, France, England, Germany, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Thai, Lao,... I mean every country trying have what Vietnamese have but still (small number) Vietnamese be like "life too bored let ask for more... "
实际上，为了准确些来说，越南近二三十年来并未发生大规模战争。所以，有些人只是因为生活太安逸而试图找茬、抱怨一切。
无论如何，相比其他国家，越南的表现已经相当不错了。比如日本仍存在男尊女卑的问题，韩国还在内部争斗不休，政府在国际上更像是其他大国（如美国的枪支问题……）、巴勒斯坦与以色列冲突中孩子死亡遍地、缺粮少钱、无家可归、电力短缺等严重问题面前的小丑；俄罗斯与乌克兰之间的紧张局势、美国和德克萨斯州之间的问题等等。
我的意思是，越南人实际上在与其他国家的比较中生活得相当不错，但对他们而言似乎还不够完美。他们追求高水平的完美状态，尽管大多数民众过着正常的生活，没有枪支暴力、没有恐怖主义，政府与许多国家保持着友好关系，如美国、中国、俄罗斯、法国、英国、德国、韩国、日本、新加坡、泰国、老挝等。我是说，每个国家都在努力实现越南所拥有的那种稳定和国际关系，然而（少数）越南人却可能觉得：“生活太单调了，我们还想要更多……”
Comparatively. Try dealing with Guayaquil, any Brazilian city outside of a few wealthy neighbourhoods, or any major South Asian city and we'll talk.
Of course HCMC and especially Hanoi compared to Berlin or London is pure chaos, but that's not exactly a fair comparison.
相对而言，如果你尝试去应对像瓜亚基尔（Guayaquil）、巴西除了一些富裕社区以外的任何城市，或者南亚的主要城市，我们再来讨论这个问题。当然，与柏林或伦敦相比，胡志明市（HCMC）尤其是河内（Hanoi）可以说是混乱不堪，但这种比较并不完全公平。
Try dealing with Guayaquil, any Brazilian city outside of a few wealthy neighbourhoods, or any major South Asian city and we'll talk.
this is exactly what you're doing in hcm. it's the pyongyang of vn (along with hn).
cringe.
most of the population isn't urbanised. it's much like soviet unx, they can't simply relocate to moscow on a whim. government keeps the poor out of the cities.
enjoy the potemkin village.
你提到的这些情况在胡志明市也是真实存在的，它就像是越南版的平壤（Pyongyang），河内也类似。这真是令人尴尬。大部分人口并未实现城市化，就像苏联那样，他们不可能随意搬到莫斯科。政府不让穷人进入城市，你在享受的只是一个表面光鲜的城市。
Unlike Pyongyang, you can leave HCMC and HN without a government approved guide. I went around the countryside a lot, especially in the North (drove to Hoa Binh and then around that area, so not the main tourist spots like Ha Giang and Ha Long).
Besides the same thing would apply to Ecuador, Brazil, or India just as well - low rate of urbanisation, and if you think Guayaquil is bad in terms of poverty try Manabi or any of the more rural places outside the main tourism hubs and resort cities. Cities have more economic opportunity than the countryside, big wow.0
与平壤不同，在没有政府批准的导游陪同下，人们可以自由离开胡志明市和河内。我去过很多乡村地区，尤其是在北方，比如驾车去了河江省，并在那里周边游览，而不是主要的旅游热点如哈奇和下龙湾。
此外，厄瓜多尔、巴西或印度的情况也同样适用——低水平的城市化，如果你觉得瓜亚基尔在贫困方面很糟糕，那就试试马纳比（Manabi）或其他远离主旅游中心和度假城市的更农村地区吧。城市通常比乡村有更多的经济机会，这没什么值得大惊小怪的。
You're not setting the bar very high if you're comparing it to some of the roughest places in the world, lol.
如果你拿一些世界上最艰苦的地方来做比较，那你的标准确实设得不高，哈哈。
Ecuador, Brazil or India are "some of the roughest places in the world"? Lol.
I mean yeah Ecuador is quite bad right now but I was there 11 years ago when things were still pretty okay. Other than that? These are solidly middle of the pack countries when it comes to standard of living and per capita GDP.
厄瓜多尔、巴西或印度是“世界上最艰苦的地方”之一？哈哈。我的意思是，现在厄瓜多尔的情况确实比较糟糕，但我在11年前那里还相当不错的时候去过。除此之外，这些国家在生活水平和人均GDP方面都是中等偏上的。
I'd say those countries on the whole are pretty rough, wouldn't you? A lot of people in these countries don't get to enjoy that decent standard of living. Same here in Vietnam. Like, I'm not saying I don't enjoy it here, I do. Good food, interesting places to explore. People can be incredibly nice, you name it. But there's also a lot of legitimate reasons for people who don't have the same privilege I have, which I assume you have aswell, where we get to jet in and afford a comfortable living. I think it's important to recognize it's not necessarily the universal experience. Especially when you live the big cities. I think one can enjoy a country and one's own experience in the country while also aknowledging all the faults, which you did aknowledge in the original post. But kinda just glossed over it.
A comment further up mentioned 1/4 lives without plumbing and 1/3 with what was summarized as "basic health problems" I'd say people are definitely in their right to have complaints.
我认为总的来说，这些国家的生活条件确实相当艰难，你不这样认为吗？在这些国家中，很多人并不能享受到体面的生活水平。越南也是如此。我并不是说我不喜欢这里，实际上我很享受，美食丰富，有很多有趣的地方可以探索，人们也很友善。但是，对于那些没有像我和你一样特权的人来说——我们可以飞来这里并负担得起舒适的生活——他们有许多正当的理由去抱怨。我认为认识到并非所有人都有同样的体验是很重要的，特别是在大城市里。一个人可以在享受一个国家和自己在这个国家的经历的同时，也承认存在的种种问题。你在原帖中确实提到了这些问题，但似乎一带而过了。上面有个评论提到有1/4的人口没有管道设施，1/3的人面临所谓的基本健康问题，我认为这些人完全有权进行投诉。
It the internet, what did you expect ? If you show a person any thing about America using only reddit they would think that GTA is an documentary about the USA, Canada are an dictatorship and the only occupation in Brazil are robbers, under cover cop or hot sexy Latinas.
这就是互联网，你期待什么呢？如果只通过Reddit来了解美国，人们可能会觉得《侠盗猎车手》（Grand Theft Auto）就是关于美国的纪录片，加拿大是一个独裁国家，而在巴西，唯一的职业就是强盗、卧底警察或者性感火辣的拉丁裔女性。
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It’s the typical Expat prosperity cycle that goes from the Honeymoon period, to regret, disdain, and then angst and unfettered hatred toward locals, the culture, and everything Vietnam.
这是典型的外籍人士繁荣周期，从蜜月期到后悔、蔑视，然后是对当地人、文化以及越南一切事物的愤怒和无拘无束的仇恨。
Where do you see this? Lol, this is not my experience at all when I meet expats around the globe, most seems pretty happy where they are... Hence why they're expats.
我怎么没发现这种情况？哈哈，我在全球各地遇到的外籍人士大多都对自己所在的地方感到满意……这就是他们成为外籍人士的原因。
Regret stage usually happens in 2-3 months and angst stage typically within a year or less.
后悔阶段通常在2-3个月内出现，而焦虑和不满阶段通常在一年或更短的时间内就会到来。
24 years in and still waiting for it... horses for courses.
已经待了24年了，还在等待那个阶段的到来……人各有志，各有所好。
There are always exceptions, not all horses find the drinking hole.
总会有例外情况，并非所有马匹都能找到适合自己的饮水地。
I love the county but why live there when Bangkok is so much better as a city?
我很喜欢越南这个国家，但既然曼谷作为一个城市这么优秀，为什么还要选择住在越南呢？
i've noticed heaps of western immigrants couldn't make it in bangkok. they whinge incessantly about things being "too expensive". to them, a few hundred £££ per month is life or death.
plus pre-covid, it was substantially easier to obtain a bogus "business visa" in vn. immigration was much more lax.
now that enforcement's stepped up a bit, those people haven't returned.
我注意到很多西方移民在曼谷无法适应生活，他们不停地抱怨那里“物价太贵”。对他们来说，每个月多花几百英镑就像生死攸关的大事。另外，在新冠疫情之前，在越南获取虚假的“商务签证”要容易得多，那时越南的移民政策较为宽松。现在随着管控加强，那些人没有回来。
$7 atm fees
2x hotter weather
Much more pollution
美元的ATM取款费 温度高出两倍 污染程度更高
Bc they don’t understand how many tough things this country went through
那是因为他们不了解这个国家经历过多少艰难困苦
The act of comparing Vietnam's issues to other countries and then conclude that "it's not that bad. Why hating?" is pointless as most people holding a negative view about Vietnam are natives whose only reality is this shit hole. They have grown up and lived here for their entire lives, so they see more than just a bystander like you. All the information you have pulled from google does not represent even part of the whole picture so please stop making stupid questions like this. You are so naive and priviledged that you don't even realize it.
将越南的问题与其他国家进行比较然后得出结论说“其实也没那么糟糕，何必抱怨呢？”这种做法毫无意义，因为大多数对越南持有负面看法的人都是土生土长的本地人，对他们而言，这就是他们唯一的现实——一个烂摊子。他们在越南出生、成长并度过了一生，所以他们看到的远不止旁观者如你所见。你从谷歌上搜到的所有信息并不能代表整个画面的哪怕一部分，所以请停止提出这类愚蠢的问题。你如此天真且享有特权，甚至都没有意识到这一点。
It's mostly foreign expats who are hating. And I posted this to get more input from locals on how they see it.
主要是一些外国籍的外籍人士对越南有所不满。我发这个帖子是希望能得到更多当地人的观点，看看他们是如何看待这个问题的。
topkek, the "locals" on this board are affluent, educated, decent command of english, etc., and aren't representative of the average person.
ask the common man on the street what he thinks. it's going to be 100x more vile than anything "expats" could dream up.
确实，这个论坛上的“当地人”往往是富裕的、受过良好教育且英语水平不错的群体，并不能代表普通大众。要了解真实的想法，不妨去问街上的普通人，他们的看法可能会比外籍人士所能想象的负面情况严重百倍。
some foreigners are gonna claim they know more about my own country than me - a local who has lived here for 30 years, lol
有些外国人会声称他们比我（一个在这生活了30年的本地人）更了解我的国家，哈哈。
I don't. That's why I ask questions like this and don't claim to know everything.
我并不这么认为。这就是为什么我会提出这样的问题而不是宣称自己无所不知的原因。
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don't worry. I don't mean you. I love my country. I do try to act different from my fellow countrymen like never driving on the sidewalk or crossing the red light. Don't go with the flow but also don't just hate, just enjoy my life
别担心，我不是在说你。我也爱我的国家，我会努力和一些同胞有所不同，比如从不在人行道上开车或闯红灯。不随波逐流，也不仅仅只是抱怨，而是享受生活。
Corruption, pollution and lack of an adequate public transport system do not really make it ideal to live in.
"Well organised" - Is this sarcastic?
I'd say you probably have absymally low standard.
Plus, you probably are foreigner. So you might get better treatment. You probably have high salary in contrast to most people here who struggle to get by. Vietnamese people treat foreigners quite well (minus the different prices scam), but to each other it's often with scrutiny, contempt, and jealousy. It's the way "we" tend to sabotage each other. (I don't do it).
More and more people are trying to get out of the country, illegally and legally because of decreasing quality of infrastructure, low wages, and lack of employment or career advancement, poor health care, pollution, lack of transparency....The list goes on and on. It speaks volume.
You'd probably understand if you live here for awhile.
腐败、污染和缺乏完善的公共交通系统并不真正使其成为一个理想的居住地。 “井然有序”——这是在讽刺吗？我想你可能拥有的标准非常低。
另外，你可能是外国人，在这里可能会得到更好的待遇。你的薪水可能比许多挣扎求生的本地人要高得多。越南人对待外国人通常相当好（除了不同的价格欺诈行为），但彼此之间却常常充满审视、轻蔑和嫉妒。这是我们倾向于互相拖后腿的方式。（但我自己不这么做）
由于基础设施质量下降、工资低、就业机会或职业晋升不足、医疗保健水平低下、环境污染、缺乏透明度等原因，越来越多的人试图合法或非法地离开这个国家。这样的问题清单可以无限延伸，充分反映了问题的严重性。
如果你在这里住上一段时间，你大概就能理解这些情况了。
Like what many have mentioned, you were only visiting. Try living, working, and paying taxes here yourself for at least 5 years. I've lived in other countries for similar length of time too, but its hard to overlook some things here.
You simply haven't seen enough.
正如许多人所提到的，你只是在游览而已。试着在这里生活、工作并纳税至少5年，你会有不同的感受。我曾在其他国家居住过同样长的时间，但在越南很难忽视一些问题。
It's fun to visit, shit to live.
旅游很有趣，但长期生活就不是那么回事了。
The pink and heaven delusional of a tourist0
游客往往会对一个地方抱有粉红色的天堂般的幻想。
As a visitor who had a very positive impression
You answered your own question. You're a visitor.
作为一个印象非常积极的访客，你自己已经回答了自己的问题。你是游客身份。
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As if other foreigners had a more profound impression lol. Obviously not trying to lecture the locals, which is exactly why I was curious and asked, but the high lever of foreigners complaining on this sub is noticeable.
哈哈，好像其他外国人对这里的印象更为深刻似的。显然我不是想给本地人上课，这就是为什么我好奇地提出这个问题。但在这个板块中，外国人的抱怨程度确实很高，这一点很显眼。
expats on Reddit will always complain. Recently someone from r/Thailand complaint that the government there doesn't allow them to do some jobs like barbers and Thai's barber skill is bad for their hair, lol. Imagine going to a less developed country and trying to steal every job from the locals
在Reddit上的外籍人士总是会抱怨。最近有人在r/Thailand版块抱怨泰国政府不允许他们从事理发师等职业，还说泰国理发师的技术对他们头发不好，真是让人哭笑不得。想象一下去一个较不发达国家，并试图抢走所有本地人的工作。
US is richest country in the world but you will also hear a lot of negativity about it online.
美国是世界上最富有的国家，但在网上你也会听到很多关于它的负面言论。
No country is perfect but Vietnam has a unique challenge to overcome: socially liberal with economic and family issues. Extreme conservatism in every other aspect of society.
It’s a paradox compounded by a second issue: loyalty is more important than honesty.
For example: you might find government officials. ignoring an environmental crimes to protect their bosses.
没有一个国家是完美的，但越南面临一个独特的挑战：社会层面较为自由开放，而经济和家庭问题却十分突出；而在其他社会层面则极端保守。这个悖论又因第二个问题而加剧：忠诚度往往比诚实更重要。例如，你会发现政府官员为了保护上司而对环境犯罪视而不见。
To sum it up, the country is running by Vietnam .....st party, that's where the hate go and spread to other. Gov and .....st is literally trigger rage for many people, left alone they go together.0
总结来说，越南是由越共执政，这也是许多负面情绪的来源，并扩散到其他方面。对于很多人而言，政府与共产党的存在本身就是一种愤怒的触发点。
It’s crazy that I finally made it to Vietnam. I can’t say their life is good/bad because I don’t live here. But I know that most of them are nice. I like them. motor bikes every where though.
真是疯狂，我终于来到了越南。虽然我不能评价这里的生活好坏，因为我不是这里的居民，但我知道大多数人都是友善的，我喜欢他们。到处都能看到摩托车。
It's weird that you ask why people are complaining about certain things then go on to list very reasonable things. Even with that in mind, travellers are overwhelmingly positive about Vietnam. So this post just feels like a virtue signal lol.
有点奇怪的是你先问为什么人们会对某些事情抱怨，然后自己列举出一些非常合理的原因。即便如此，旅行者对越南的整体评价还是相当正面的。所以这篇帖子感觉更像是在显示某种道德优越感，哈哈。
Personal experiences here, a lot of people simply dislike their own country (politically or personally Idk) I actually mean A LOT of them. Some even confidently stated that “[specific developed country]’s sewers taste better than Vietnam’s beligrents”, showing how much they wish to “escape” the land. Of course that type of people gets offended whenever a flaw of their preferred country is mentioned
根据我的个人经验，在这里有很多人（政治上或个人原因不明）其实并不喜欢自己的国家，我说的真的是非常多的人。有些人甚至断言某个发达国家的下水道都比越南的好喝，以此表达他们多么渴望逃离这片土地。当然，每当提及他们心仪国家的问题时，这类人很容易被冒犯。
How long did you stay? If you stay for a few years, it's hard not to focus on the bad.
FWIW: I'm not complaining. I just notice more, plus I have a lot of friends who've been here a long time.
你在这里待了多久？如果你在这里住上几年，很难不去关注那些糟糕的事情。顺带一提，我不是在抱怨，我只是注意到了更多细节，而且我有很多在这儿待了很久的朋友。
People like to complain about shit. When I lived in the US, I complained about a lot of things, and now that I live in Vietnam there are other things that get annoying. Don’t get me wrong, I love Vietnam, but I guess my point is that no matter where you live, there will be some things that bother you after a while
人们总是喜欢抱怨。我在美国时也抱怨过很多事，现在住在越南，也有其他让人烦心的事情。尽管如此，我热爱越南，我想说的是无论你住在哪里，久而久之总会有一些事情让你感到困扰。