年轻的俄罗斯人想回到苏联吗？（下）
Do young Russians want the USSR back?
译文简介
这个国家的伟大之处在于，它在100年的时间里经历了欧洲国家经历的工业化道路，在1945年成为世界最强大的国家。
正文翻译
@jaybird2148
The older Russians who have misty-eyed nostalgia for the Soviet unx never seem to understand that the Soviet unx's economic collapse was all but inevitable, and the its future unsustainable. Gorbachev knew this.
怀念苏联的老年俄罗斯人似乎从来没有理解过苏联的经济崩溃几乎是不可避免的，其未来也是不可持续的。戈尔巴乔夫知道这一点。
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You're right and he knew it by far.But the old soviet leaders with plenty of privilegies, didn't want him to succeed bringing Democracy and western capitalism, because it would have meant the failed of the Comm..... political system in the world.In fact,none of themt helped him to do it...Then the collapse.
你说得对，他很明白这一点。但是苏联的老领导们拥有大量特权，不希望他成功地带来民主和西方资本主义，因为这将意味着共产主义政治制度在世界上的失败。事实上，他们中没有人帮助他。然后就崩溃了。
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As someone from a former (occupied) soviet state, Lithuania, born pretty much after the fall of USSR, I can say that those times were pretty bad, there were long queues at the food stores, people had money but there was nothing to buy, you could get some rare goods only if you knew the right people, people stole from the factories where they worked in, in the funniest ways you could imagine (for example tying meat under their clothes and smuggling it out, and so on) young folks were chased after by the soviet police for the way they dressed, listened to western music, their hair styles and so on, in 1970s one young man even set himself on fire and burned to death in a public place, he wrote a short note/letter, that said "for my death soviet government is to be blaimed", so yeah, those were the times, horrible times indeed. Although as I've read and accumulated the knowledge I came to realize, that back then people were more united, somewhat more helpful and compassionate than now, but in the end, those times were pretty bad nonetheless.
作为一个出生于苏联解体后的前（被占领的）苏联国家立陶宛的人，我可以说那时候真的很糟糕。食品店里排起了长队，人们有钱但却买不到东西，只有认识正确的人才能得到一些稀有商品。人们从自己工作的工厂里以最可笑的方式偷盗，例如把肉绑在衣服下面走私等。年轻人因为穿着、听西方音乐、发型等而受到苏联警察的追捕。在20世纪70年代，一名年轻男子甚至在公共场合自焚身亡，他写了一封短信，上面写着“我的死由苏联政府负责”。所以，那些时候真的很糟糕。虽然我读过并积累了一些知识，我认识到，那时候人们比现在团结，更有爱心和同情心，但是最终，那些时候真的很糟糕。
There is so much naivety from these young people. I visited Moscow (from London) in March 1990 and I was horrified. I expected it to be grey, but not so utterly decrepit. I had a pen friend from the DDR who was studying in Moscow for a year, and he showed us around the non-touristy parts. We went to a giant flea market in front of a decayed old stadium (there were workmen on the roof with huge pots of hot tar - not a safety measure of any kind). A man heard my English, grabbed my jacket, shouted "Bush" and spat on the ground. We took an ancient Moskvitch taxi back to the hotel (Cosmos) which had one rear door welded up, and driven by a driver stinking of vodka. The road was wet and he lost it more than once. Terrifying. Had it not have been for the recently opened McDonalds I think we'd have starved as the hotel food was inedible. It was a fascinating week, but I said I could see no dignity anywhere of any kind. Comm..... was broke. What they provided was awful, and they couldn't even afford that any more.
这些年轻人有太多幼稚的想法。1990年3月，我从伦敦去了莫斯科，我很震惊。我希望它会很灰暗，但没想到会如此破败。我在东德有个笔友，他在莫斯科学习了一年，带我们参观了非游客区。我们去了一个废弃的体育场前面的大型跳蚤市场（屋顶上有巨大的热沥青罐-根本不是任何安全措施）。一个人听到我说英语，就抓住我的夹克，大喊“布什”，然后吐了口唾沫。我们搭乘一辆古老的莫斯科出租车回酒店（Cosmos），后门被焊接起来，由一位散发着伏特加臭味的司机驾驶。路面是湿的，他失控了很多次。可怕。如果不是新开业的麦当劳，我想我们会挨饿，因为酒店的食物难以下咽。那是一个很有意思的星期，但我说我没有看到任何尊严。共产主义已破产了。他们提供的东西很糟糕，他们甚至再也负担不起了。
I live in Russia. Among the uneducated population, the ideas of returning to the USSR and love for Stalin are very popular. this speaks volumes about who supports these ideas.
我住在俄罗斯。在未受教育的人群中，回到苏联和热爱斯大林的想法非常流行。这说明了谁支持这些想法。
Older people remember the USSR fondly for psychological reasons. They were just young people back then and that's why they associate those times well. They confuse good memories of carefree youth with the regime.
老年人对苏联的记忆会让他们产生心理上的愉悦感。他们当时只是年轻人，所以他们将那个时代与美好联系在一起。他们将无忧无虑的青春与政权混淆了。
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It feels good to hear the younger generation speak so frankly about the USSR era. I believe the older generation, the one born in the late 60's, have lived well these last 30 years under Putin's govern. The younger generation, born in the late 80's has also lived well under Russia's Vova' The Good, until now...
年轻一代如此坦率地谈论苏联时代令人感到欣慰。我相信那些出生于上世纪六十年代末的老一代在普京统治下这30年过得很好。而出生于八十年代末的年轻一代也一直过得不错，直到现在……
Couple of things were not mentioned once: - not allowed to travel freely in the whole world or leave the country, if you wanted to - millions of repressed, killed, destroyed families - no free speech - economic failure Nice points are - more solidarity - morally sound on the surface - more respect and care for each other
几件事情没有被提到：-不能自由旅行到全世界或离开国家-数百万人受到镇压、被杀、家庭破碎-没有言论自由-经济失败，好的方面是-更多的团结-表面道德上更健全-更尊重和关心彼此
I think you could ask people in the USA if they would like to have the good old times from the 20th century back and they would answer in the same fashion. A sense of belonging, people were kinder, nowadays people are more selfish. Etc. Maybe we don't have to travel back in time to make the present day better, we just have to look at each other and be willing to help
我认为你可以问美国的人是否希望回到20世纪的好时光，他们会以同样的方式回答。一种归属感，人们更善良，现在的人更自私等等。也许我们不需要回到过去才能让当今变得更好，我们只需要相互关注并愿意帮助。
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I grew up in commie times and there was not much that I remember that was positive. Even as an older child I realized that it was Soviet occupation. I guess I learned that from my family even though that was not discussed with me directly since I was too young. I was against the .....st government and I ended up living abroad, not all by choice. Those were bad times. I'm glad to see Poland a free country and growing in prosperity. I hope they have enough sense to keep arming themselves so together with other countries in the region they can keep Russia within its borders. I hope the Ukrainians will free themselves soon as well.
我在共产主义时期长大，我记得没有什么是积极的。即使作为一个年长的孩子，我也意识到这是苏联的占领。我反对共产主义政府，最终我离开了国家，不完全是出于自愿。那些时候很糟糕。我很高兴看到波兰成为一个自由国家，并不断繁荣。我希望他们足够明智，保持武装，与该地区的其他国家一起，以便将俄罗斯局限于其边界内。我希望乌克兰人也能尽快解放自己。
I travelled to the former East Berlin in the late eighties which was supposed to be the showpiece of Comm..... . It did not work their showpiece department store was like a warehouse with nothing in it but randomley placed obxts for sale the majority of the shelves were bare . I had a list of things i was not supposed to buy because they were in short supply in the East not that there was anything worth buying apart from say one thing we were buying East German cameras as the lenses were fantastic . I remember joining a queue for food only to get to the counter to see next nothing for sale . I really do feel sorry for people trapped under Comm..... it does not work . Sorry it does work for the chosen self elected few at the top .
我在1980年代晚期去过前东柏林，那里被认为是共产主义的典范。那并没有起作用，他们的展览部门就像一个仓库，里面什么都没有，只有随意摆放的物品出售，大多数货架都是空的。我有一份东德货物清单，上面列着我不能购买的东西，因为在东部供应短缺，除了我们正在购买的东德相机，因为镜头非常棒。我记得加入了食品队列，却发现几乎没有什么可卖的了。我真的很同情被困在共产主义下的人们，它不起作用。抱歉，它对于自选的高层人物确实起作用。
When someone in Russia wants USSR back, they don't mean being arrested for trading or for currency exchange. They don't want to get special visas for traveling abroad. They want only positive features such as territory, free education, medical care, industrial and scientific development, etc
当俄罗斯的某些人希望苏联回来时，他们并不意味着因交易或货币兑换而被逮捕。他们只想要领土、免费教育、医疗保健、工业和科学发展等积极因素。
I visited Soviet in 1989, as one of very few from the west. At least in the north. It was surreal, a strange world. I dont think thats a world onf could want to live in. Yet today, in Russia, in rural parts people are still living in Soviet.
我于1989年访问了苏联，是西方很少有人之一。至少在北部如此。那是超现实的，一个奇怪的世界。我不认为这是一个人想要生活的世界。然而今天，在俄罗斯，乡村地区的人们仍然生活在苏维埃时代。
I find it interesting to hear what the young people think about the rule of the USSR. I think when we look back on what life was like in the future, it won't be with fond memories. The future is in trouble.
听到年轻人对苏联统治的看法很有趣。我认为当我们回顾未来的生活时，不会有美好的回忆。未来面临困境。
The things they mention that old people talk of missing about the USSR were common to people in all countries back then.. most were poor but there was a community spirit and they had to help each other survive, few went on to further education, but skills were higher locally and food growing etc..and people in villages got together and provided their own entertainment etc. Thst was the way of life in Europe back then regardless of the political system..
他们提到老年人谈论苏联时想念的事情，在当时所有国家的人都很常见。大多数人都很贫困，但有一种社区精神，他们必须相互帮助才能生存。很少有人接受进一步的教育，但当地的技能更高，食物种植等。和村庄里的人聚在一起提供自己的娱乐等。那是当时欧洲的生活方式，不管政治制度如何。
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I love it when people talk about "the kindness of social interactions in the USSR." The reality is there was a great deal of pettiness, judgement and ratting others out over jealousy and vindictiveness.
我喜欢人们谈论“苏联社会交往的善良”。现实是有很多的琐碎，判断和出卖别人嫉妒和报复。
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My memories of the .....st period are still vivid. I don't remember a single positive thing about the regime imposed on my country by the Russians. For those who naively believe that .....st “equality” is a great idea, let me tell you how it was implemented. There was a small class of very rich, very privileged people (much smaller than in capitalist countries) and the rest of us: not the equally rich, but the equally poor. The dream was achieved: we were all equal. Well, some more equal than others. [EDIT] It seems that some commentators below also consider the Russians who were part of the system as victims; as if Stalin or other "non-Russian" leaders were the only ones who did all the bad things and the "true Russians" bear no responsibility. No! The entire system, which lives to this day, was formed by Russian citizens, raised in Russian culture and perpetuated by Russians. Own it!
我的回忆仍然清晰地记得共产主义时期。我记不起一件关于俄罗斯强加给我们国家的政权的积极事情。对于那些天真地认为共产主义的“平等”是一个伟大理念的人，让我告诉你它是如何实施的。有一小部分非常富有、特权阶层的人（比资本主义国家少得多），而我们其他人：并不是同样富有，而是同样贫穷。这个梦想实现了：我们都是平等的。嗯，有些人比其他人更平等。[编辑]下面的一些评论员似乎也认为俄罗斯人是这个体系的一部分，也是受害者;好像斯大林或其他“非俄罗斯”领导人是唯一做了所有坏事的人，而“真正的俄罗斯人”没有责任。不!整个制度延续至今，是由俄罗斯公民形成的，在俄罗斯文化中成长，并由俄罗斯人延续下去。拥有它!
Daniil it's the wrong question, ask what people want , ask what they can agree on, ask if a president should be for life, ask if there should be freedom of speech, assembly, demonstration, public oversight, human rights for Russian people, ask about social responsibility, there's Soo much you can ask about
Daniil，这是一个错误的问题，请问人们想要什么，问问他们能达成什么共识，问问总统是否应终身任职，问问是否应有言论自由、集会、示威、公众监督、对俄罗斯人民的人权，问问社会责任。你可以问很多问题。
As a Georgian, I think Red army invasion of my country in 1921 has robbed us of the European destiny and has demolished our progressive liberal economy and political system of the time. This is a second fight, but I am amazed that 100 years later, we still fight this plague.
作为格鲁吉亚人，我认为1921年红军入侵我们的国家剥夺了我们的欧洲命运，摧毁了我们当时的进步自由经济和政治体系。这是第二次战斗，但我惊讶的是，100年后，我们仍在与这个灾难作斗争。
100 years later 4 generations will have gone by and I’m pretty sure that nobody is gonna have a clue what USSR was. Unless old generation is alive we gonna return to this question over and over again . Everything we have in our life is just experience that we should handle and process in our mindset, then go straight away . Ancient schemas are not working , the new system suppose to be built I’d say. I didn’t live in USSR and definitely I have no idea how it feels to live there. For me , personally, I think it was not terrible and not great, just mediocre . Eventually it’s a step that did a seal in a history .
100年后，4 代人已经过去，我非常确定没人会知道苏联是什么。除非老一辈仍然活着，我们将一次又一次地回到这个问题。我们生活中的一切只是我们应该处理和加以思考的经验，然后继续前进。古老的模式不再适用，新的体系应该被建立，我想说的是。我没有生活在苏联，肯定不知道在那里生活是什么感觉。对我个人而言，我认为它既不可怕也不伟大，只是平庸。最终，这是历史上的一个里程碑。
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As a child I lived in the USSR, I will never forget that I went to school with a cold weapon, the territory of Kazan was divided by gangs, there were no fruits, meat, dairy products in store, so necessary for a growing body. And now it's safe in Russia, I have successfully had two surgeries for free, in old age I study for free under the state program for working with AI, and my city of Kazan is developing at the tremendous pace.
当我还是个孩子时，我曾生活在苏联，我永远不会忘记我带着冷兵器去学校的日子，喀山的领土被帮派分割，商店里没有水果、肉类和乳制品，这对一个成长中的身体来说是如此必需的。而现在在俄罗斯很安全，我成功地接受了两次免费手术，在老年时我在国家人工智能工作项目下免费学习，并且我的喀山城正在以惊人的速度发展。
I am not from Soviet countries but when I travelled to Baku (I am Azeri myself) and asked people especially old people why they are sympathetic to USSR they all said basically the same thing. We had work and no unemployment, we had a place to live, college was free and culture or social life was better. I think if you an honest human, those are some of the factor you should consider when you think about socialism
我不是苏联国家的人，但当我去巴库（我自己是阿塞拜疆人）并询问人们，特别是老年人为什么对苏联表示同情，他们都基本上说了同样的话。我们有工作，没有失业，我们有住的地方，大学是免费的，文化和社交生活更好。我认为，如果你是一个诚实的人，这些都是你在思考社会主义时应该考虑的因素之一。
Having the most land of any country, it follows logically, they must acquire more land to protect their vast country. This is the twisted logic behind PUtin's Imperialism.
作为面积最大的国家，逻辑上，他们必须获取更多土地来保护他们广阔的国家。这就是普京帝国主义背后扭曲的逻辑。
Crazy how kids born in the 00s don't know about the immense poverty they live in (unless their parents are close to the regime) compared to what they would have if all the common assets weren't sold out for pennies on the dollar after the undemocratic dissolution. Many millions of people who were expected to be born never were, because the economy shrunk so much that millions of would-be parents couldn't afford to have kids. Child prostitution and drug use was widespread for many years after, and these illegal markets still exist today, where many women are essentially enslaved.
太疯狂了，2000年代出生的孩子们不知道他们生活在何等巨大的贫困中（除非他们的父母与政权关系密切），与如果所有共同财产没有以不民主的方式被低价出售后他们本来会有的生活相比。许多预期将出生的数百万人因为经济萎缩而没有出现，导致数百万潜在的父母无法负担养育子女。儿童卖淫和药物滥用在很多年后仍然普遍存在，这些非法市场至今仍存在，许多妇女基本上被奴役。
It seems like they have forgotten the GULag, the Purges, the Famines, the Colectivization, the Peasant Rebellions, the deportations of millions of people, the forced domicile, the arbitrary arrests, the closed cities, the incredible polution of some areas, the horrible experiences young men had to go through when conscxted even in peace times. Vorkuta, Karaganda, Magadan, Katyn, Semipalatinsk, Chernobyl. All those things don't even come into their minds.
看来他们忘记了古拉格、清洗、饥荒、集体化、农民起义、数百万人的流放、强制居住地、任意逮捕、封闭城市、某些地区的严重污染、年轻男子即使在和平时期也必须经历的可怕经历。沃尔库塔、卡拉干达、马加丹、卡廷、塞米巴拉金斯克、切尔诺贝利。所有这些事情甚至都没有出现在他们的脑海中。
Old people in Italy spoke with fondness of the Fascist period in exactly the same way. I'm sure the same was true with older Germans who looked back to the days of National-Socialism with nostalgia.
意大利的老人以同样的方式怀念法西斯时期。我相信老一辈的德国人也对纳粹时代怀有怀旧之情。
I wish with all my heart young Russians the return of Soviet unx. The added benefit will be that we won’t have to listen to young Russians emigres telling us how much better their lives were in Russia and how vastly superior Russian culture is over the decadence of the West.
我全心全意地希望年轻的俄罗斯人回到苏联。额外的好处将是我们将不再听到年轻的俄罗斯移民告诉我们他们在俄罗斯的生活有多么美好，俄罗斯文化是多么优越，超越了西方的颓废。
Soviet times or not, but back in the days, it was better because people had no phones, internet, or any other shiny, unnecessary stuff. People were enjoying communication more than now, appreciating the taste of oranges and other goodies. Today, asses are full of stuff, and people don't even know what to eat. More doesn't mean better.
无论是否是苏联时期，但过去的日子更好，因为人们没有手机、互联网或其他闪亮而不必要的东西。人们更享受交流，更珍惜橙子和其他美食的味道。如今，人们的生活充斥着各种东西，他们甚至不知道该吃什么。更多并不意味着更好。
USSR was great! We put up big long fences to keep people from escaping and when people from the West would visit they would bring their own toilet paper and wouldn't trade us for their blue jeans, not for even an entire sack of potatoes! Decade after decade of FUN FUN FUNNNN ! ! ! !
苏联太棒了！我们竖起了长长的围墙来阻止人们逃跑，当西方人来访时，他们会自带卫生纸，甚至不会用整袋马铃薯来交换他们的牛仔裤！几十年的乐趣！！
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Sadly their is one person who wants to rebuild the USSR as a Dictatorship and wants to be a modern day Stalin. And that is Vladimir Putin.
可悲的是，有一个人想要重建苏联作为一个独裁国家，并想成为现代的斯大林。那个人就是弗拉基米尔·普京。
Yeah, all world knows how Russian kindness looks like. Grey, grumpy faces that don't believe in each other as everyone could be an agent or potential informer. I have been in Belarus in 2018, I guess it is a portal to USSR, grey people, without emotions on the streets and constant feeling that big brother watching u. Cameras, people in uniform and without uniform but still agents, nah, hard to imagine someone really miss it
是的，全世界都知道俄罗斯人的善良是什么样子的。灰暗、板着脸，彼此不相信，因为每个人都可能是特工或潜在的告密者。我在2018年去过白俄罗斯，我猜那里就像通往苏联的门户，街上的人没有情绪一直感觉老大哥在看着你。摄像头、穿着制服和不穿制服的人们，但仍然是特工，唉，很难想象有人真的怀念它。
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In my opinion? For the most part, only 45+ people want to return USSR. They are avidly telling how great was the USSR for one major reason: because it was the time of their childhood. They grew up, they didn't do certain things in time and missed opportunities therefore they are romanticizing about it. USSR had shit ton of troublesome parts that no one of them recalls because the bad disappears and the good stays. Most of these 45+ people wouldn't even be living as good as they live now in USSR. Russia is the country of elderly.
在我看来？大部分只有45岁以上的人才想要回到苏联。他们热衷地讲述苏联有多么伟大的一个主要原因是因为那是他们的童年时光。他们长大了，没有及时做某些事情，错过了机会，因此对其进行浪漫化。苏联有很多麻烦的部分，他们没有一个人能回忆起，因为坏的东西消失了，好的东西留下了。这些45岁以上的人中的大多数人在苏联甚至过不上现在这样的好日子。俄罗斯是老年人的国家。
If you want your life 'spoon fed' to you then go back to how it was. That included being spoon fed information, which was rationed the same as food.
如果你想让你的生活被“喂食”，那就回到过去吧。这包括被“喂食”信息，就像被配给食物一样。