英国皇家海军将因人手短缺被迫退役2艘护卫舰——由于刚为其升级花费了巨额资金，引发了强烈抨击
Royal Navy Forced To Retire Frigates Due To Personnel Shortages
译文简介
瞧瞧日不落帝国今天的寒酸还是挺好玩的
正文翻译
Royal Navy Forced To Retire Frigates Due To Personnel Shortages: Report
The two Type 23 frigates on the chopping block, HMS Argyll and Westminster, have recently been overhauled at major expense to the taxpayer.
BY
OLIVER PARKEN
|
PUBLISHED JAN 6, 2024
有消息称，英国皇家海军将因人手短缺被迫退役2艘护卫舰
即将被退役的两艘 23 型护卫舰“阿盖尔号”和“威斯敏斯特号”最近刚进行了大修，纳税人为此花费了巨额资金。
作者：奥利弗·帕肯
发布时间： 2024 年 1 月 6 日
The two Type 23 frigates on the chopping block, HMS Argyll and Westminster, have recently been overhauled at major expense to the taxpayer.
BY
OLIVER PARKEN
|
PUBLISHED JAN 6, 2024
有消息称，英国皇家海军将因人手短缺被迫退役2艘护卫舰
即将被退役的两艘 23 型护卫舰“阿盖尔号”和“威斯敏斯特号”最近刚进行了大修，纳税人为此花费了巨额资金。
作者：奥利弗·帕肯
发布时间： 2024 年 1 月 6 日
The U.K. Royal Navy is so short on sailors that it is reportedly having to decommission two Type 23 class frigates in order to staff its new class of frigates. If this comes to pass, it would reduce the service's current fleet of 11 Type 23s to nine. That the frigates may be decommissioned comes at a time when the Royal Navy's major surface combatants are in high demand, including in the Red Sea.
Details on the Royal Navy's possible decision to decommission the Type 23, or Duke class, frigates HMS Argyll and Westminster, commissioned in 1991 and 1994 respectively, were originally reported by The Telegraph newspaper, citing unnamed defense and government sources. The Royal Navy and the U.K. Ministry of Defense have neither confirmed nor denied the claims thus far, and The Telegraph was seemingly unable to establish a timeline for when the frigates' retirement may occur from its sources.
英国皇家海军面临严重的人力资源危机，有报道称，英国皇家海军将不得不为此退役两艘23型护卫舰，以便将其舰员分配给其他的新型护卫舰。如果这一计划成为现实，其23型护卫舰部队的规模将由现有的11艘减少到9艘。然而在这些护卫舰可能退役之际，皇家海军对主要水面作战舰艇的需求量却很大，包括在红海海域执行的任务。
英国的《每日电讯报》最早报道了英国皇家海军可能决定退役分别于 1991 年和 1994 年服役的两艘23 型（亦即“公爵”级）护卫舰“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号的细节，该消息来自未透露姓名的国防部和政府信息源。迄今为止，英国皇家海军和英国国防部既没有证实但也没有否认这一说法，《每日电讯报》似乎暂时无法从其信息来源确定上述护卫舰退役的时间表。
Details on the Royal Navy's possible decision to decommission the Type 23, or Duke class, frigates HMS Argyll and Westminster, commissioned in 1991 and 1994 respectively, were originally reported by The Telegraph newspaper, citing unnamed defense and government sources. The Royal Navy and the U.K. Ministry of Defense have neither confirmed nor denied the claims thus far, and The Telegraph was seemingly unable to establish a timeline for when the frigates' retirement may occur from its sources.
英国皇家海军面临严重的人力资源危机，有报道称，英国皇家海军将不得不为此退役两艘23型护卫舰，以便将其舰员分配给其他的新型护卫舰。如果这一计划成为现实，其23型护卫舰部队的规模将由现有的11艘减少到9艘。然而在这些护卫舰可能退役之际，皇家海军对主要水面作战舰艇的需求量却很大，包括在红海海域执行的任务。
英国的《每日电讯报》最早报道了英国皇家海军可能决定退役分别于 1991 年和 1994 年服役的两艘23 型（亦即“公爵”级）护卫舰“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号的细节，该消息来自未透露姓名的国防部和政府信息源。迄今为止，英国皇家海军和英国国防部既没有证实但也没有否认这一说法，《每日电讯报》似乎暂时无法从其信息来源确定上述护卫舰退役的时间表。
HMS Argyll at sea. Royal Navy
“阿盖尔”号
HMS Westminster off the British coast in 2018. Royal Navy
正在离港的“威斯敏斯特”号，摄于2018 年
"We will have to take manpower from one area of the Navy in order to put into a new area of the force," the newspaper reports, citing an unnamed defense official. Once in service, the crews from the two Type 23 frigates will be sent to work across the future Type 26 fleet, the publication notes. Following their decommissioning, Argyll and Westminster will either be scrapped or sold, according to the newspaper.
An unnamed Whitehall source who spoke to The Telegraph confirmed the personnel changes and retirement plans for the vessels, stating that they will allow the service to focus its attention on "updating the Navy into a modern, hi-tech fighting force."
"It is always emotive when ships that have a long history of service come to the end of their working life," the source claimed. "They and the sailors who crewed them have done the country proud. But decommissioning them is the right decision."
The Royal Navy has already reduced its fleet of Type 23s since they were first introduced. In total, 16 of those vessels were commissioned from 1990 to 2002, and five have been decommissioned thus far. Three of those decommissioned frigates — HMS Norfolk, Marlborough, and Grafton — were sold to the Chilean Navy in the mid- to late-2000s.
Eventually, the Royal Navy seeks to retire all its Type 23 frigates by 2035, which currently form a critical component of its front-line fleet safeguarding British maritime trading routes and other interests. Those frigates will be replaced by Type 26 City class frigates and less capable Type 31 Inspiration class frigates.
该报援引一位拒绝透露姓名的国防部官员的话说：“我们将不得不从海军的一个领域抽调人力以便将其投入到一个新的领域。” 该报指出，这两艘23型护卫舰一旦退役，其舰员将被派往未来的26型护卫舰上服役。据报道，“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号退役后可能将被拆解或出售。
一位不愿透露姓名的白厅消息人士在接受《每日电讯报》采访时证实了关于这些舰艇的人力变动和退役计划，并表示这将使海军部门能够集中精力“将海军升级为一支现代化的高科技战斗力量”。
消息人士称：“当拥有悠久服役历史的军舰即将结束其使用寿命时，人们总是会感到情绪激动。” “它们和舰员让国家感到自豪。但让它们退役是正确的决定。”
自23型护卫舰首次入列皇家海军以来，它的数量一直在持续减少。1990年至2002 年间，总共有16艘该级护卫舰投入使用，迄今已有5艘退役。其中的三艘——“诺福克”号、“马尔伯勒”号和“格拉夫顿”号——在2000年代中后期被出售给智利海军。
最终，英国皇家海军计划在 2035 年之前让所有的23型护卫舰退役，这些护卫舰目前是其保卫英国海上贸易路线和其他利益的前沿舰队的重要组成部分。这些护卫舰将被26型“城市”级护卫舰和能力相对较差的31型“灵感”级护卫舰取代。
（译者：吐槽一下，31型5000多吨的舰体就带一门57牙签炮，24发点防导弹加1拉姆1近防炮，完全就是条巡逻舰，把它归类为护卫舰实在是恬不知耻，而且居然还要被用为“威慑”中国？！）
An unnamed Whitehall source who spoke to The Telegraph confirmed the personnel changes and retirement plans for the vessels, stating that they will allow the service to focus its attention on "updating the Navy into a modern, hi-tech fighting force."
"It is always emotive when ships that have a long history of service come to the end of their working life," the source claimed. "They and the sailors who crewed them have done the country proud. But decommissioning them is the right decision."
The Royal Navy has already reduced its fleet of Type 23s since they were first introduced. In total, 16 of those vessels were commissioned from 1990 to 2002, and five have been decommissioned thus far. Three of those decommissioned frigates — HMS Norfolk, Marlborough, and Grafton — were sold to the Chilean Navy in the mid- to late-2000s.
Eventually, the Royal Navy seeks to retire all its Type 23 frigates by 2035, which currently form a critical component of its front-line fleet safeguarding British maritime trading routes and other interests. Those frigates will be replaced by Type 26 City class frigates and less capable Type 31 Inspiration class frigates.
该报援引一位拒绝透露姓名的国防部官员的话说：“我们将不得不从海军的一个领域抽调人力以便将其投入到一个新的领域。” 该报指出，这两艘23型护卫舰一旦退役，其舰员将被派往未来的26型护卫舰上服役。据报道，“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号退役后可能将被拆解或出售。
一位不愿透露姓名的白厅消息人士在接受《每日电讯报》采访时证实了关于这些舰艇的人力变动和退役计划，并表示这将使海军部门能够集中精力“将海军升级为一支现代化的高科技战斗力量”。
消息人士称：“当拥有悠久服役历史的军舰即将结束其使用寿命时，人们总是会感到情绪激动。” “它们和舰员让国家感到自豪。但让它们退役是正确的决定。”
自23型护卫舰首次入列皇家海军以来，它的数量一直在持续减少。1990年至2002 年间，总共有16艘该级护卫舰投入使用，迄今已有5艘退役。其中的三艘——“诺福克”号、“马尔伯勒”号和“格拉夫顿”号——在2000年代中后期被出售给智利海军。
最终，英国皇家海军计划在 2035 年之前让所有的23型护卫舰退役，这些护卫舰目前是其保卫英国海上贸易路线和其他利益的前沿舰队的重要组成部分。这些护卫舰将被26型“城市”级护卫舰和能力相对较差的31型“灵感”级护卫舰取代。
（译者：吐槽一下，31型5000多吨的舰体就带一门57牙签炮，24发点防导弹加1拉姆1近防炮，完全就是条巡逻舰，把它归类为护卫舰实在是恬不知耻，而且居然还要被用为“威慑”中国？！）
Future Type 26 frigate rendering. BAE Systems
未来的26型护卫舰效果图
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Future Type 31 frigate rendering. Babcock
未来的31型护卫舰效果图
Previously, the U.K. Ministry of Defense intended to build 13 Type 26 frigates, construction of which began in 2017, which will be larger and more capable than the in-service Type 23s. You can read more about the various features and capabilities of the Type 26 in our previous feature here.
However, in 2015 the total number of Type 26 frigates to be built was reduced to eight, with the remaining five to be made up of smaller Type 31s.
From a numbers perspective, the total crew complement of nine Type 23 frigates would be roughly comparable to eight Type 26s and five Type 31s, if Argyll and Westminster are indeed retired. Type 23 frigates boast a crew complement of 185, with accommodation for up to 205. Type 26 and Type 31s feature crew compliments of 157 and 80-100, with accommodation for up to 208 and 180, respectively. As such, the total number of staff needed to operate nine Type 23s stands at 1,665. The equivalent number for the future fleet of Type 26s and Type 31s ranges from 1,656–1,756.
此前，英国国防部打算建造13艘26型护卫舰，该级舰于2017年开始建造，它将比现役的23型吨位更大、能力更强。可以在本网站以前发布过的文章中详细了解26型舰的各种特性和功能。
然而到2015年，计划建造的26型护卫舰总数被削减至8艘，其它5艘将由较小的31型护卫舰替代。
从数字角度来看，如果“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号确实退役，那么9艘23型护卫舰的舰员总数将大致相当于八艘26型护卫舰和五艘31型护卫舰。23型护卫舰的舰员编制为185人，其居住空间最多可容纳205人。26型和31型护卫舰的舰员编制分别为157人和80-100人，居住空间最多可容纳人数分别为208人和180人。因此，运作9艘23型舰所需的人员总数为 1,665 人。未来26型和31型舰队的等效人员范围为1,656至1,756人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
However, in 2015 the total number of Type 26 frigates to be built was reduced to eight, with the remaining five to be made up of smaller Type 31s.
From a numbers perspective, the total crew complement of nine Type 23 frigates would be roughly comparable to eight Type 26s and five Type 31s, if Argyll and Westminster are indeed retired. Type 23 frigates boast a crew complement of 185, with accommodation for up to 205. Type 26 and Type 31s feature crew compliments of 157 and 80-100, with accommodation for up to 208 and 180, respectively. As such, the total number of staff needed to operate nine Type 23s stands at 1,665. The equivalent number for the future fleet of Type 26s and Type 31s ranges from 1,656–1,756.
此前，英国国防部打算建造13艘26型护卫舰，该级舰于2017年开始建造，它将比现役的23型吨位更大、能力更强。可以在本网站以前发布过的文章中详细了解26型舰的各种特性和功能。
然而到2015年，计划建造的26型护卫舰总数被削减至8艘，其它5艘将由较小的31型护卫舰替代。
从数字角度来看，如果“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号确实退役，那么9艘23型护卫舰的舰员总数将大致相当于八艘26型护卫舰和五艘31型护卫舰。23型护卫舰的舰员编制为185人，其居住空间最多可容纳205人。26型和31型护卫舰的舰员编制分别为157人和80-100人，居住空间最多可容纳人数分别为208人和180人。因此，运作9艘23型舰所需的人员总数为 1,665 人。未来26型和31型舰队的等效人员范围为1,656至1,756人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Irrespective of its future plans, however, the Royal Navy is stretched extremely thin across its global requirements; both in terms of manpower and available vessels.
While U.K. government budget cuts have partly been responsible for manpower shortages in recent years, the service has also experienced a recruitment crisis as of late. Between March 2022 and March 2023, intake for the Royal Navy and Royal Marines dropped some 22.1 percent according to U.K. Ministry of Defense figures, The Telegraph reports. Those figures represent a sharper decline in recruitment compared to the Royal Air Force and the British Army across the same period; which saw a 16.6 percent and 14.6 reduction in recruitment. To put it in other terms, between July 2022 and July 2023, the total workforce of the Royal Navy shrank by some 4.1 percent. As of October 2023, U.K. government statistics note that the total combined strength of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines stood at 37,960.
Critics have decried the possibility of the decommissioning in light of the Royal Navy's shrinking fleet size and broader readiness concerns. The former chairman of the U.K. Parliamentary Defense sext Committee, Tobias Ellwood, described the decision as "baffling" given the U.K.’s surface fleet already remains "massively overstretched."
然而，无论其未来计划如何，英国皇家海军在其全球需求方面都显得捉襟见肘。无论是在人力还是可用舰艇方面。
尽管英国政府对预算的削减是造成近年来人力资源缺口的部分原因，但军方最近也出现了人力招募方面的危机。据《每日电讯报》报道，根据英国国防部的数据，2022年3月至2023 年3月期间，皇家海军和海军陆战队的应募入伍人数下降了约 22.1% 。这些数字表明，与同期的皇家空军和陆军召募人数分别下降了16.6%和14.6%相比，海军的募兵人数下降幅度更大。换句话说，在2022年7月至2023年7月期间，皇家海军总人数减少了约4.1%。截至2023年10月，根据英国政府的统计数据，皇家海军和海军陆战队的总兵力为 37,960 人。
鉴于皇家海军舰队规模的不断缩小和更广泛的战备问题，批评者谴责了可能退役上述战舰的决定。英国议会国防特别委员会前主席托比亚斯·埃尔伍德表示，鉴于海军水面舰艇部队已经“严重超负荷运转”，这一决定“令人费解”。
While U.K. government budget cuts have partly been responsible for manpower shortages in recent years, the service has also experienced a recruitment crisis as of late. Between March 2022 and March 2023, intake for the Royal Navy and Royal Marines dropped some 22.1 percent according to U.K. Ministry of Defense figures, The Telegraph reports. Those figures represent a sharper decline in recruitment compared to the Royal Air Force and the British Army across the same period; which saw a 16.6 percent and 14.6 reduction in recruitment. To put it in other terms, between July 2022 and July 2023, the total workforce of the Royal Navy shrank by some 4.1 percent. As of October 2023, U.K. government statistics note that the total combined strength of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines stood at 37,960.
Critics have decried the possibility of the decommissioning in light of the Royal Navy's shrinking fleet size and broader readiness concerns. The former chairman of the U.K. Parliamentary Defense sext Committee, Tobias Ellwood, described the decision as "baffling" given the U.K.’s surface fleet already remains "massively overstretched."
然而，无论其未来计划如何，英国皇家海军在其全球需求方面都显得捉襟见肘。无论是在人力还是可用舰艇方面。
尽管英国政府对预算的削减是造成近年来人力资源缺口的部分原因，但军方最近也出现了人力招募方面的危机。据《每日电讯报》报道，根据英国国防部的数据，2022年3月至2023 年3月期间，皇家海军和海军陆战队的应募入伍人数下降了约 22.1% 。这些数字表明，与同期的皇家空军和陆军召募人数分别下降了16.6%和14.6%相比，海军的募兵人数下降幅度更大。换句话说，在2022年7月至2023年7月期间，皇家海军总人数减少了约4.1%。截至2023年10月，根据英国政府的统计数据，皇家海军和海军陆战队的总兵力为 37,960 人。
鉴于皇家海军舰队规模的不断缩小和更广泛的战备问题，批评者谴责了可能退役上述战舰的决定。英国议会国防特别委员会前主席托比亚斯·埃尔伍德表示，鉴于海军水面舰艇部队已经“严重超负荷运转”，这一决定“令人费解”。
Tobias Ellwood speaking at an event organised by the Afghanistan and Central Asian Association (ACAA) in Feltham, U.K., August 15, 2023. Photo by Jordan Pettitt/PA Images via Getty Images
托比亚斯·埃尔伍德于 2023 年 8 月 15 日在英国伦敦费尔塔姆由“阿富汗和中亚各国 ”协会举办的活动上发表演讲讲话。
"During the Gulf War the Royal Navy boasted 51 frigates and destroyers," he said. "That number will soon fall to just 16. Yet our world is more dangerous than [at] any time since 1945. The strength of today’s Royal Navy is simply inadequate to handle the ever-complex threat picture that is harming our economy."
Others have pointed to the critical short-term capability gap retiring the frigates may generate, with reference to the recent chain of events to have unfolded in the Red Sea. As it stands, the U.K. has the Type 45 destroyer HMS Diamond in the region to protect merchant shipping vessels from Houthi strikes as part of Operation Prosperity Guardian. However, The Telegraph claims that HMS Lancaster, a Type 23 frigate in the region, could be moved in order to support Diamond.
“海湾战争期间，皇家海军还拥有 51 艘护卫舰和驱逐舰，”他说。“这个数字将很快会下降到只有16艘。然而，我们当前的世界局势比1945年以来的任何时候都更加危险。当今皇家海军的实力根本不足以应对危害到我们经济的日益复杂的危险形势。”
其他人则指出，鉴于最近在红海海域发生的一系列事件，退役上述护卫舰可能会在短期内造成严重的军力缺口。目前，作为“繁荣卫士”行动的一部分，英国在该地区部署有45型驱逐舰“钻石”号，以保护商船免受胡塞武装的袭击。然而，《每日电讯报》称，23 型护卫舰“兰开斯特”号可能会被调动部署至该地区以支持“钻石”号。
Others have pointed to the critical short-term capability gap retiring the frigates may generate, with reference to the recent chain of events to have unfolded in the Red Sea. As it stands, the U.K. has the Type 45 destroyer HMS Diamond in the region to protect merchant shipping vessels from Houthi strikes as part of Operation Prosperity Guardian. However, The Telegraph claims that HMS Lancaster, a Type 23 frigate in the region, could be moved in order to support Diamond.
“海湾战争期间，皇家海军还拥有 51 艘护卫舰和驱逐舰，”他说。“这个数字将很快会下降到只有16艘。然而，我们当前的世界局势比1945年以来的任何时候都更加危险。当今皇家海军的实力根本不足以应对危害到我们经济的日益复杂的危险形势。”
其他人则指出，鉴于最近在红海海域发生的一系列事件，退役上述护卫舰可能会在短期内造成严重的军力缺口。目前，作为“繁荣卫士”行动的一部分，英国在该地区部署有45型驱逐舰“钻石”号，以保护商船免受胡塞武装的袭击。然而，《每日电讯报》称，23 型护卫舰“兰开斯特”号可能会被调动部署至该地区以支持“钻石”号。
HMS Diamond at sea. U.K. Defense Ministry photo
英国皇家海军“钻石”号驱逐舰
"We are losing operational ships — which is all very well as long as there's no war in the next few years," said the former First Sea Lord Alan West.
"With the number we’ve got, if we get involved in any action we are really poorly placed. If the government had taken seriously the issue of frigate numbers over the last 10 years, there would be sufficient [numbers] to meet the requirements of trade protection in the Red Sea."
The possible decision to retire Argyll and Westminster could therefore leave a capability gap for the Royal Navy in the near term, especially given that Type 26 frigates are years away from entering service. Both Argyll and Westminster were expected to remain in service until the late 2020s. The first Type 26 frigate, HMS Glasgow, is expected to reach Initial Operating Capability around 2028, while all Type 26 frigates are likely to be completed by the mid-2030s, which lines up with the current retirement plans for the Type 23 fleet.
“我们正在失去作战舰艇——这一切其实都挺不错，如果未来几年没有战事发生的话，”前第一海务大臣艾伦·韦斯特说。
“如果以我们现有的（舰艇）数量参与任何行动，处境确实都很糟糕。如果政府在过去10年里认真对待护卫舰数量问题，本来可以有足够的数量满足红海的贸易保护需求的。”
因此，“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号退役的可能决定可能会在短期内给皇家海军留下军力缺口，特别是考虑到26型护卫舰距离服役还需要好几年时间的话。“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号本来预计将继续服役到20年代末。第一艘26型护卫舰“格拉斯哥号”预计将在2028年左右达到初始服役能力，而所有26型护卫舰可能会在30年代中期完工，这与23型护卫舰队原定的退役时间表相符。
"With the number we’ve got, if we get involved in any action we are really poorly placed. If the government had taken seriously the issue of frigate numbers over the last 10 years, there would be sufficient [numbers] to meet the requirements of trade protection in the Red Sea."
The possible decision to retire Argyll and Westminster could therefore leave a capability gap for the Royal Navy in the near term, especially given that Type 26 frigates are years away from entering service. Both Argyll and Westminster were expected to remain in service until the late 2020s. The first Type 26 frigate, HMS Glasgow, is expected to reach Initial Operating Capability around 2028, while all Type 26 frigates are likely to be completed by the mid-2030s, which lines up with the current retirement plans for the Type 23 fleet.
“我们正在失去作战舰艇——这一切其实都挺不错，如果未来几年没有战事发生的话，”前第一海务大臣艾伦·韦斯特说。
“如果以我们现有的（舰艇）数量参与任何行动，处境确实都很糟糕。如果政府在过去10年里认真对待护卫舰数量问题，本来可以有足够的数量满足红海的贸易保护需求的。”
因此，“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号退役的可能决定可能会在短期内给皇家海军留下军力缺口，特别是考虑到26型护卫舰距离服役还需要好几年时间的话。“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号本来预计将继续服役到20年代末。第一艘26型护卫舰“格拉斯哥号”预计将在2028年左右达到初始服役能力，而所有26型护卫舰可能会在30年代中期完工，这与23型护卫舰队原定的退役时间表相符。
Royal Navy Type 23 frigate HMS Argyll is pictured at the end of Exercise Goalkeeper in the Middle East. U.K. Ministry of Defense
23 型护卫舰“阿盖尔”号，拍摄于其参加“中东守门员”演习结束后
On top of this, opponents have pointed to the many millions of pounds that have been invested in the HMS Argyll and Westminster to have elongated their service lives to the end of the decade. Both vessels were upgraded as part of the Type 23 LIFEX program, completed in 2015 and 2017 respectively, with each refit costing at minimum £35 million/$54 million dollars, roughly equivalent to $70 million dollars adjusted for inflation today. More recently, Argyll underwent another multi-million-pound overhaul, while a refit for Westminster that was expected to last less than two years — which began in October 2022 but was suspended in May 2023 — bore an estimated cost of £100 million ($127 million).
"That the Royal Navy is forced by a lack of sailors to mothball ships shortly after refits that cost millions of taxpayers' money is further evidence of ministers failing to get to grips with deep problems in defense," The Labor Shadow Defense Secretary John Healey said more recently. "Ministry of Defense mismanagement has wasted at least £15 billion of public money since 2010."
除此之外，反对者还指出，英国皇家海军为“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号已投入数百万英镑进行维护，以将其使用寿命延长到本世纪末。这两艘船都作为23型护卫舰延寿计划的一部分进行了升级，分别于2015年和2017年完成，每艘舰改装费用至少为3500万英镑（约合5400 万美元），大致相当于今天根据通货膨胀率调整后的7000万美元。最近，“阿盖尔”号进行了一次耗资几百万英镑的大修，而“威斯敏斯特”号则正在进行一次升级，预计持续不到两年 ——该工程于 2022 年 10 月开始，但已于2023年5月被喊停——估计成本为 1 亿英镑（1.27 亿美元）。
工党影子内阁的国防部长约翰·希利表示：“皇家海军在刚刚才耗费几百万纳税人资金进行改装后，就由于缺乏人力而被迫将舰艇封存，这进一步证明政府部长们未能解决国防领域的深层问题。”最近。“自2010年以来，国防部因管理不善已经浪费了至少150亿英镑的公共资金。”
"That the Royal Navy is forced by a lack of sailors to mothball ships shortly after refits that cost millions of taxpayers' money is further evidence of ministers failing to get to grips with deep problems in defense," The Labor Shadow Defense Secretary John Healey said more recently. "Ministry of Defense mismanagement has wasted at least £15 billion of public money since 2010."
除此之外，反对者还指出，英国皇家海军为“阿盖尔”号和“威斯敏斯特”号已投入数百万英镑进行维护，以将其使用寿命延长到本世纪末。这两艘船都作为23型护卫舰延寿计划的一部分进行了升级，分别于2015年和2017年完成，每艘舰改装费用至少为3500万英镑（约合5400 万美元），大致相当于今天根据通货膨胀率调整后的7000万美元。最近，“阿盖尔”号进行了一次耗资几百万英镑的大修，而“威斯敏斯特”号则正在进行一次升级，预计持续不到两年 ——该工程于 2022 年 10 月开始，但已于2023年5月被喊停——估计成本为 1 亿英镑（1.27 亿美元）。
工党影子内阁的国防部长约翰·希利表示：“皇家海军在刚刚才耗费几百万纳税人资金进行改装后，就由于缺乏人力而被迫将舰艇封存，这进一步证明政府部长们未能解决国防领域的深层问题。”最近。“自2010年以来，国防部因管理不善已经浪费了至少150亿英镑的公共资金。”
John Healey MP speaking on the second day of the Labour Party conference, October 9, 2023, in Liverpool, U.K. Photo by Andrew Aitchison / In Pictures via Getty Images
国会议员约翰·希利于 2023 年 10 月 9 日在英国利物浦举行的工党大会第二天发表演讲
Then there is the biggest elephant in the room — the Royal Navy's two large Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers. Since their genesis, one of the key reasons opponents of procuring the ships put forward was that they would be too expensive and manpower intensive and they would end up robbing from the surface combatant fleet. That is the same fleet that is also tasked with protecting the carriers while on cruise.
The carriers have crews of around 700, but those numbers swell when the air wing is deployed to well over double that number. While this is efficient by large aircraft carrier standards, the cost to build, maintain, and operate these vessels, and provide them with air wings, has been the greatest concern. While carriers are incredibly powerful, they can only be in one place at one time, and that is usually tied up at the pier. Having persistent presence around the globe, especially for a country with a rich naval power history and global interests like the U.K., is increasingly crucial as recent events have highlighted. On the other hand, the carriers provide the U.K. with a power projection capability that is only possessed by a handful of nations. So, whether the huge investment in two carriers was the proper decision or not remains up for debate.
然后是房间里最大的大象——皇家海军的两艘大型“伊丽莎白女王”级航空母舰。自它们诞生以来，反对者一直反对采购这级舰艇的主要原因之一是它们过于昂贵且占用过多舰员，最终会从水面舰艇部队中掠取人力资源，而水面舰艇部队还得负责在巡航时为航母保驾护航。
该级航母（一般情况下）拥有大约 700 名舰员，但当部署舰载机后，舰员数量将大幅增加一倍以上。虽然按照大型航空母舰的标准来说这仍是高效的，但建造、维护和操作这些舰艇以及为其提供舰载机的成本一直是最令人担忧的问题。虽然航母非常强大，但它们一次只能出现在一个地方，而且大部分时间都停泊在码头上。正如最近（在红海）发生的事件所凸显的那样，在全球范围内持续保持军力存在，对于特别是像英国这样拥有丰富的海军历史和全球利益的国家来说，变得越来越重要。另一方面，航母为英国提供了只有极少数国家拥有的军力投放能力。因此，对两艘航母的巨额投资是否是个正确的决定至今仍存在争议。
The carriers have crews of around 700, but those numbers swell when the air wing is deployed to well over double that number. While this is efficient by large aircraft carrier standards, the cost to build, maintain, and operate these vessels, and provide them with air wings, has been the greatest concern. While carriers are incredibly powerful, they can only be in one place at one time, and that is usually tied up at the pier. Having persistent presence around the globe, especially for a country with a rich naval power history and global interests like the U.K., is increasingly crucial as recent events have highlighted. On the other hand, the carriers provide the U.K. with a power projection capability that is only possessed by a handful of nations. So, whether the huge investment in two carriers was the proper decision or not remains up for debate.
然后是房间里最大的大象——皇家海军的两艘大型“伊丽莎白女王”级航空母舰。自它们诞生以来，反对者一直反对采购这级舰艇的主要原因之一是它们过于昂贵且占用过多舰员，最终会从水面舰艇部队中掠取人力资源，而水面舰艇部队还得负责在巡航时为航母保驾护航。
该级航母（一般情况下）拥有大约 700 名舰员，但当部署舰载机后，舰员数量将大幅增加一倍以上。虽然按照大型航空母舰的标准来说这仍是高效的，但建造、维护和操作这些舰艇以及为其提供舰载机的成本一直是最令人担忧的问题。虽然航母非常强大，但它们一次只能出现在一个地方，而且大部分时间都停泊在码头上。正如最近（在红海）发生的事件所凸显的那样，在全球范围内持续保持军力存在，对于特别是像英国这样拥有丰富的海军历史和全球利益的国家来说，变得越来越重要。另一方面，航母为英国提供了只有极少数国家拥有的军力投放能力。因此，对两艘航母的巨额投资是否是个正确的决定至今仍存在争议。
HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Queen Elizabeth pictured at sea for the first time. Wednesday 19 May 2021 saw a historic moment in Britain’s carrier renaissance as HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales met at sea for the first time. Petty Officer Photographer Jay Allen
2021 年 5 月 19 日星期三，皇家海军“威尔士亲王”号和“伊丽莎白女王”号首次编队航行，见证了英国航空母舰复兴的历史性时刻
It remains to be seen if the claims published by The Telegraph are, in fact, official policy. However, if the two frigates are to be decommissioned sooner than previously expected, this would very much fit a pattern of retiring key capabilities in order to free up both funds and personnel. U.K. Defence Secretary Grant Shapps has recently proposed retiring the Albion class Landing Platform Dock (LPD) vessels HMS Albion and Bulwark, the possibility of which raised back in 2019, specifically to free up available manpower.
We will keep our eyes peeled for if, and when, the Type 23 frigates get their decommissioning orders.
《每日电讯报》发表的声明是否确定是官方政策还有待观察。不过，如果这两艘护卫舰的退役时间比之前预期的要早，那么这非常符合退役军事装备以向关键军力释放资金和人力的模式。英国国防部长格兰特·沙普斯最近提议将全部两艘“海神之子”级船坞登陆舰——“海神之子”号 和“堡垒”号退役 ，在 2019 年就提出了这一可能性，特别是为了释放可用人力。
我们将密切关注 23 型护卫舰是否以及何时收到退役命令。
We will keep our eyes peeled for if, and when, the Type 23 frigates get their decommissioning orders.
《每日电讯报》发表的声明是否确定是官方政策还有待观察。不过，如果这两艘护卫舰的退役时间比之前预期的要早，那么这非常符合退役军事装备以向关键军力释放资金和人力的模式。英国国防部长格兰特·沙普斯最近提议将全部两艘“海神之子”级船坞登陆舰——“海神之子”号 和“堡垒”号退役 ，在 2019 年就提出了这一可能性，特别是为了释放可用人力。
我们将密切关注 23 型护卫舰是否以及何时收到退役命令。
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13 hours ago
Soooo - can we start privateering again? Gotta keep those international waters safe from baddies somehow...
所以......我们可以再次开始私掠吗？总得以某种方式保护这些国际水域免受坏人的侵害吧......
2 hours ago
Great idea, man: we could raise money here at TWZ to purchase one of the retiring frigates; man it with former USMC and USN people from here at TWZ. We could set up 3 operating teams, each team serving for 3 months, and during the 4th quarter pull the old girl in for refitting and taking care of repairs, etc.
We could probably work out an arrangement with the current Prince of Sealand to arrange for Letters of Marque for privateering purposes. After paying the folk who man the ship, and a percentage of profits to the Prince of Sealand, as well as operating costs and upkeep, there is still some coin to be made. We could hire out for safe transport of ships through the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea area; raid the pirates from northeast Africa for plunder, and do the same for the Houthi's; even hire out to represent the interests of some of the smaller mid-east nations.
I think that there are enough opportunities so that, as CEO and CFO of the privateering company; you and I and our spouses could soon retire in the manner to which we would love to become accustomed..... :)
好主意，伙计，我们可以在这个论坛上众筹资金买下一艘退役的护卫舰；然后在这个论坛上招募退役的美国海军陆战队和美国海军人员一起进行管理。我们可以成立3个运营小组，每个小组运作3个月，第4季度把这条老姑娘拉出去进行改装维修等等。
我们或许可以与现任西兰公国的亲王达成一项安排，由他为私掠目的向我们发放许可证。在向船员支付工资、向西兰公国亲王支付一定比例的利润、以及运营成本和维护费用之后，仍然有一些钱可以赚。我们可以向商船提供安全护送穿越亚丁湾和红海地区的服务，袭击来自非洲东北部的海盗进行掠夺，对胡塞武装也采取同样的行动，甚至可以作为雇佣军保护一些中东小国的利益。
我认为你我以及我们的配偶作为私掠公司的首席执行官和首席财务官，将有足够的机会，很快就会以我们希望的习以为常的方式退休......哈哈哈哈
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1 day ago
Argyll is in refit. She hasnt finished it. It may be that they have looked at the Growth work which is usually 3 times more expensive than planned work and said "sod this, scrap it...we cannot justify that outlay."
“阿盖尔 ”号还在升级，她还没有完工呢。可能是他们发现升级工程比计划工程费用要高出3倍，于是说："去他的，废弃它吧......我们无法证明这笔开支是合理的。"
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13 hours ago
It's unbelievable that so many navies are retiring/decommissioning warships AT COST TO TAXPAYERS rather than donating/selling them to Ukraine. Good lord.
令人难以置信的是，浪费了如此多的纳税人的军舰被以成本价退役，而不是将其赠送或是出售给乌克兰。老天爷啊！
11 hours ago
That would be a incredibly bad idea, and I doubt the AFU would even take them.
Ukraine needs nothing of the sort. They can combat the Black Sea Fleet quite effectively without major warships of their own, and receiving any would just give the Russians a big target to shoot at.
AND:
. Ships don’t come with ammunition or trained crews, and those being retired all needed major remedial work to stay in service. The cost of all that adds up to far more than disposing of them.
. Training crews and building up infrastructure in Ukriane takes even longer for ships than armored vehicles or tactical jets. Not to mention Russia has wrecked or at least hit of the relevant piers, slips, and docks that would be necessary to berth donated warships.
. Turkey has closed the Bosporus to warships for over a year now, so actually getting them into the Black Sea isn’t possible without destroying the Turkish military.
I know you’re not that smart, but even you’re not dumb enough to think attacking another NATO member is the best way to help Ukraine.
这将是一个极其糟糕的主意，我怀疑乌克兰国防部是否会接受它们。
乌克兰不需要这样的东西。他们可以在没有自己的大型战舰的情况下相当有效地对抗（俄国的）黑海舰队，而接收任何一艘这种军舰只会给俄罗斯人提供一个巨大的靶子。
而且：
这些军舰没有弹药或训练有素的舰员，那些退役的舰艇都需要进行繁重的修理工作才能继续服役。所有这些加起来的成本远远超过处理它们的成本。
对军舰来说，在乌克兰训练水兵和建设基础设施比使用装甲车辆或喷气战斗机需要更长的时间。更不用说俄罗斯破坏了可以停泊这些捐赠军舰所需的码头等设施。
土耳其已经对交战双方的海军关闭博斯普鲁斯海峡一年多了，所以如果不与土耳其军队开战，就不可能真正让军舰进入黑海。
我知道你没有那么聪明，但即使你应该也没有愚蠢到认为攻击另一个北约成员国是帮助乌克兰的最佳方式。
14 hours ago
That's why the UK decided to become a regional country after the 1950s.
这就是为什么英国在20世纪50年代后决定（由全球霸权）变成一个地区性国家。
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12 hours ago
It's almost something happened in the 1940's to alter Imperial ambitions.
40年代发生了很多事，帝国的野心改变了。
12 hours ago
Thats kinda exactly what they did.. We turned the keys over to the U.S. and said 'Your problem now'.
这就是他们那个时候做的......我们把钥匙交到了美国手里，并说：“现在是你们的问题了”。
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19 hours ago
Back in the late 1980s someone did a count and there were something like 50 RN admirals -- and 40 ships...
上个世纪80年代末，有人曾经统计过，（那时皇家海军）大约有50名海军上将.....以及40艘战舰......
17 hours ago
Increasing fleet size isn't as simple as building more ships; you need more sailors to crew those ships. And adding more sailors isn't as easy as opening the floodgates at Boot Camp; you're going to need more senior enlisted and officers as well, not just junior sailors and officers, and that takes time, especially if a navy is already short handed.
TL;DR: if you want to increase the number of ships you have, you have to start increasing your manning AT LEAST five years before adding said ships in order to build the requisite experience base.
扩大舰队规模并不像建造更多军舰那么简单；你需要更多的水兵来给那些舰艇配备舰员。增加更多的水兵并不像打开新兵训练营的大门那么简单。你还需要更多的士官和军官，而不仅仅是新服役的士兵和军官，这需要时间，尤其是在海军已经人手不足的情况下。
总结一下：如果你想扩大现有舰队的数量，你必须在增加上述舰艇前至少五年就开始培训新招的水手，以建立必要的经验基础。
17 hours ago
Let them telework, smoke weed, and have Flex Time. I’m kidding of course but unfortunately those are hot button items for the younger workforce right now and it’s hard to reconcile a commitment to a strict regimented lifestyle with the general mindset of what “work” is amongst many 20 year olds.
可以让水兵们远程在线工作，抽抽大麻，还可以弹性上班。我当然是在开玩笑，但不幸的是，这些都是现在年轻的劳动者的热门话题，很难把需要承诺严格规范生活方式与许多20岁的年轻人对“工作”的普遍看法统一起来。
1 day ago
The country could do with the return of some sort of conscxtion. It would stop the youth from turning into soft idiots who don't want to work hard and would much rather protest about literally anything they feel strongly about. Tbh, a lot of the west including us here in the US could do with mandatory national service. It would force the young to learn discipline, gain some useful life skills and help occupy their time productively.
国家应该恢复某种征兵制。这将阻止年轻人变成软弱的白痴，他们不想努力工作，更愿意他们感受到的随便任何事情提出强烈抗议。顺便说一句，包括我们美国在内的许多西方国家都可以强制服兵役。这将迫使年轻人学习纪律，获得一些有用的生活技能，并有助于有效地利用他们的时间。
1 day ago
Or, y'know, we could just do something more productive and open up more technical schools.
或者，你知道，可以做一些更有成效的事情，比如开设更多的技校。
1 day ago
Lemme just wheel out the chair there grandpa, its time to go back to the home.
让我把轮椅推出去，爷爷，该回家了。
1 day ago
conscxtion is a dumb idea. Its mostly talked about by people old people
征兵是个愚蠢的主意。大多数都是些老头子在谈论它
1 day ago
Because conscxtion worked out so well for the US in the 60s.
因为征兵制度在60年代的美国来挺成功的。
1 day ago
It worked out well in my opinion. The jerks in DC not so much.
在我看来，执行的好是因为那时华盛顿的混蛋还没那么多。
1 day ago
People talking about recruiting, retention, HR policies, etc., are missing a MUCH bigger point. As has been infamously been said, “all wars are political,” and while political causes haven’t changed, today’s younger generation is attuned to the political situation is ways that previous generation weren’t. Make of it what you will, but very few people today, put in JFK’s position, who in their right mind wants to sacrifice their economic future, family and possibly life for a political class that is as obviously self-serving, dishonest and disloyal as the one we have?
人们在谈论招聘、留用、人力资源政策等问题时，忽略了一个更重要的问题。正如人们臭名昭著地说的那样，“战争是政治的继续”，虽然政治原因没有改变，但今天的年轻一代已经适应了政治形势，这是前一代人所没有的。今天的年轻人会怎么想，很少有人愿意站在肯尼迪的立场上，谁会在头脑正常的情况下想为一个像现在这样明显自私、不忠不义的政治阶层牺牲自己的未来、家庭甚至生命？
1 day ago
Liked your comment.
As far as the politicians listed running things from both parties, there is always dissatisfaction with politicians and civilian leadership of the military. That will likely never change.
喜欢你的评论。
就两党政客们列出的国家管理事务而言，人们总是对政客和文职的军方领导层感到不满。这种情况可能永远不会改变。