网友吐槽“为什么中国的app这么难用？不能更简单一些吗？”
How do people in China put up with all their shitty apps?
译文简介
如果你是中国人，能够在他们的系统内操作，那么一切都像黄油一样光滑。如果你是一个外国人，那么一切都是几乎不可能或难以置信的困难。我认为根本原因是你做任何事都需要一些真实的身份证件。
正文翻译
Tried using my sister's Taobao account to buy something
Don't accept Hong Kong credit cards anymore
Fine, sign up for Alipay. Must use a phone number, cannot use email
Successfully add Hong Kong credit card to Alipay
Scans code - Can't pay for someone's basket using a different Alipay account. Please set up a Taobao account under your name
Fine, let's login using my Alipay QR code. Code doesn't scan, account doesn't exist
Fine, so let's create up a new Taobao account (lost my old phone number)
Robot slider, Sends you a 2fa code
You have to do real person identification
Can't do it on a laptop, fine let's download the app. App wants to paste from Clipboard as soon as you open it.
Login, Robot slider, App sends you another 2fa code
'Have to do real person identification'
App sends you a third 2fa code. This one never arrives
Have taken me over 20 minutes to do nothing. The Amazon onboarding experience is under a minute.
---
I've given up and I'm taking the MTR to go to my local Decathlon instead.
试着用我姐姐的淘宝账号买东西
不再接受香港信用卡
好吧，注册支付宝。必须使用电话号码，不能使用电子邮件
成功将香港信用卡加入支付宝
扫码——不能使用不同的支付宝帐户为某人的购物篮付款。请以您的名义注册一个淘宝帐号
好的，让我们用我的支付宝二维码登录。扫不出来，帐户不存在
好吧，让我们创建一个新的淘宝账号（我的旧电话号码丢了）
机器人滑块，向您发送2fa（使用密码和验证码登录的方式）代码
你必须做真人身份验证
不能在笔记本电脑上完成，好吧，让我们下载应用程序。应用程序希望在您打开它时立即从剪贴板粘贴。
登录，机器人滑块，应用程序向您发送另一个2fa代码
“必须进行真人身份验证”
应用程序会向您发送第三个2fa代码。这个永远不会到来
我花了20多分钟什么也没做成。而亚马逊的入门体验只需不到一分钟。
Don't accept Hong Kong credit cards anymore
Fine, sign up for Alipay. Must use a phone number, cannot use email
Successfully add Hong Kong credit card to Alipay
Scans code - Can't pay for someone's basket using a different Alipay account. Please set up a Taobao account under your name
Fine, let's login using my Alipay QR code. Code doesn't scan, account doesn't exist
Fine, so let's create up a new Taobao account (lost my old phone number)
Robot slider, Sends you a 2fa code
You have to do real person identification
Can't do it on a laptop, fine let's download the app. App wants to paste from Clipboard as soon as you open it.
Login, Robot slider, App sends you another 2fa code
'Have to do real person identification'
App sends you a third 2fa code. This one never arrives
Have taken me over 20 minutes to do nothing. The Amazon onboarding experience is under a minute.
---
I've given up and I'm taking the MTR to go to my local Decathlon instead.
试着用我姐姐的淘宝账号买东西
不再接受香港信用卡
好吧，注册支付宝。必须使用电话号码，不能使用电子邮件
成功将香港信用卡加入支付宝
扫码——不能使用不同的支付宝帐户为某人的购物篮付款。请以您的名义注册一个淘宝帐号
好的，让我们用我的支付宝二维码登录。扫不出来，帐户不存在
好吧，让我们创建一个新的淘宝账号（我的旧电话号码丢了）
机器人滑块，向您发送2fa（使用密码和验证码登录的方式）代码
你必须做真人身份验证
不能在笔记本电脑上完成，好吧，让我们下载应用程序。应用程序希望在您打开它时立即从剪贴板粘贴。
登录，机器人滑块，应用程序向您发送另一个2fa代码
“必须进行真人身份验证”
应用程序会向您发送第三个2fa代码。这个永远不会到来
我花了20多分钟什么也没做成。而亚马逊的入门体验只需不到一分钟。
---
我已经放弃了，转乘地铁去当地的迪卡侬。
我已经放弃了，转乘地铁去当地的迪卡侬。
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if you are Chinese and can work within their systems, then everything is as smooth as butter. If you are a foreigner then everything is near impossible or incredibly difficult. I think the root cause is that everything you do needs some real ID.
如果你是中国人，能够在他们的系统内操作，那么一切都像黄油一样光滑。如果你是一个外国人，那么一切都是几乎不可能或难以置信的困难。我认为根本原因是你做任何事都需要一些真实的身份证件。
I think the other bit is there’re so many ads. You turn on your smart tv, ads, you open up your bank app, ads, you open up a food delivery app, ads.
The experience is , but it’s not like they have better choices.
我认为另一个问题是有太多的广告。打开智能电视，广告；打开银行应用，广告；打开食品送货应用，广告。经验是这样的，但他们并没有更好的选择。
This, I believe, is much more in line with OP's point about people putting up with things than his actual example.
The people who he is referring to have none of the problems he is referring to re not having an ID, forgetting their phone number, using overseas cc's etc.
But the ads? Everyone has to put up with those. As you said, in places that really really shouldn't have them.
我相信，这比他的实际例子更符合楼主关于人们忍受事物的观点。
他所指的人没有任何问题——没有身份证、忘记了电话号码、使用海外信用卡等。
但是广告呢？每个人都必须忍受这些。正如你所说，在那些真的不应该有它们的地方。
At a train station I was at, you had to watch an ad on the mirror in order to get water from the tap. It's the most capitalistic thing I've ever seen.
在我去过的一个火车站，你必须在镜子上看广告才能从水龙头里得到水。这是我见过的最资本主义的事情。
Sounds like a Black Mirror
听起来像《黑镜》（英国科幻电视剧，讲述荧屏、镜头等现代传媒技术对人的扭曲、异化）
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
A lot of China seems like it was inspired by Black Mirror.
中国的很多地方似乎都受到了《黑镜》的启发。
Pause a movie, ads start playing, even with VIP
暂停电影，广告开始播放，即使有VIP
Yeah, it’s a very disgusting
是的，这非常恶心
It is such a terrible experience for foreigners visiting China, if I wouldnt have my wife who is Chinese traveling with me in 2nd tier cities, I have no idea how to even do the most basic things here in China like calling taxi, booking airbnbs. Of course in 1st tier cities, you can get by paying extraordinary amount for all the amenities tailored for internationals.
对于访问中国的外国人来说，这是一种非常糟糕的体验。如果不是有我的中国妻子陪同我在二线城市旅行，我甚至不知道如何做一些在中国最基本的事情，比如打车、预订爱彼迎（出租住宿民宿的网站）。当然，在一线城市，你可以通过支付巨额费用来使用专为国际人士定制的所有便利设施。
there was a post here a few weeks ago about how China wanted more foreign tourists; forget the fascism and the visas - just paying for shit is almost impossible in China. It's why there are more 'Western' tourists on the Seoul underground at any time, than there are in all of Beijing and Tianjin combined.
几周前，这里有一篇关于中国希望吸引更多外国游客的帖子；先不说FXS主义和签证——在中国花钱买东西（口语）是几乎不可能的。这就是为什么在任何时候在首尔地铁上都会有比北京和天津加起来还要多的“西方”游客的原因。
Even as a Hong Konger. If Shenzhen ever goes cashless I won't be able to visit or ride the metro. I insist on using cash there and the people look at me like I'm insane. Of course we are just heavily integrated into the western ecosystem and we generally refuse to use the Chinese ones. We use the same accounts and Trivago et al run ads on TVs, every website has a Chinese or English version and most take Google/Apple Pay or Visa/Master which is all you need.
Although they are offering discounts on everything from food bills to tech down here just to get people to download the Alipay app.
即使身为一个香港人。如果深圳实现无现金化，我将无法访问或乘坐地铁。我坚持在那里使用现金，人们看着我就像我疯了一样。当然，我们只是深度融入了西方生态系统，我们通常拒绝使用中国的生态系统。我们使用相同的账户，Trivago（酒店预订网站）等在电视上播放广告，每个网站都有中文或英文版本，大多数支持Google/Apple Pay或Visa/Master，这就是你需要的一切。
尽管他们在这里提供了从餐费到科技产品等各种折扣，只为了让人们下载支付宝应用。
Everything in China is designed for Mainland Chinese citizens + ID card. The Chinese government also isn't willing to adopt the Western international norms into their system. VISA and Mastercard can't even integrate their own international payment systems into China and have to use the unxpay frxwork controlled by the government. This is why most foreign credit cards aren't widely accepted in China and vice-versa.
中国的一切都是为中国大陆公民+身份证设计的。中国政府也不愿意将西方国际准则纳入自己的体系。VISA和万事达甚至不能将自己的国际支付系统整合到中国，必须使用政府控制的银联框架。这就是为什么大多数外国信用卡在中国不被广泛接受的原因，反之亦然。
unxpay is accepted in a lot (/most?) of places in the UK
在英国，很多（/大多数？）地方都支持银联。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yes, but they still lock Chinese credit cards to domestic use only unless you specifically apply for an international one. It's not like in the West where banks automatically give you a VISA or Mastercard which can be used all over the world without having to meet extra requirements and limits.
是的，但他们仍然将中国信用卡锁定为仅限国内使用，除非你专门申请国际信用卡。这并不像在西方，银行会自动给你一张可以在全球范围内使用的VISA或万事达卡，而不需要满足额外的要求和限制。
A buddy of mine regularly travelled to China and he won't stop talking about the time he walked up to a shop and ordered food, and then when he went to pay (with a 100¥ bill) they had to yell at all the people on staff to find out where the cash box was, then actually had to blow the dust off of it, before very carefully making change...
我的一个朋友经常去中国旅行，他不停地谈论有一次他走进一家商店点了食物，然后当他去付款的时候(用一张100元的钞票)，他们不得不大声呼叫所有员工，找到钱箱在哪里，然后竟然不得不吹掉它的灰尘，然后非常小心地找零钱……
True. You're also used to it. What some would see as incredibly invasive bloatware is seen as second nature in China - there's no reason that Alipay, for example, needs that many permissions or needs to be that size on your phone.
没错。你也已经习惯了。一些人认为极具侵入性的庞大软件，在中国却被视为理所当然 - 例如，支付宝没有必要拥有那么多的权限，也没有必要在你的手机上占用那么大的空间。
There is also a huge difference. Chinese people don't use emails. The rest of the world use emails for all kinds of stuff.
还有一个巨大的差异。中国人不使用电子邮件。世界其他地方的人们使用电子邮件做各种事情。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Mobile apps are a nothingburger really, try PC software like 360 browser (or any other local browser), Sougou keyboard and WPS document editor. They are extremely invasive, come with tons of bloatware and popups, and even when you disable everything that you can, they will still forcefully (and without your knowledge) change the default app/program to themselves. They are cancerous filth.
移动应用程序真的不算什么，试试PC软件，比如360浏览器（或其他任何本地浏览器）、搜狗输入法和WPS文档编辑器。它们极其侵入性，带有大量的臃肿软件和弹出窗口，即使你禁用了你能禁用的所有东西，它们仍然会强制（且在你不知情的情况下）将默认的应用程序/程序更改为它们自己。它们就像是癌变的污秽。
Wait, isn't there Safari and Edge? What about Firefox, Brave etc?
等等，难道没有Safari和Edge吗？Firefox、Brave等呢？
All newly bought Windows devices come with 360 or other local browsers pre-installed and set as default (e.g. Lenovo browser if you buy any Lenovo notebook).
Safari is iOS / MacBook stuff.
Edge is there but mostly in the background, you have to dig it out first.
Firefox, Opera and others are a background noise in the Chinese browser market.
所有新购买的Windows设备都预装有360或其他本地浏览器，并设置为默认浏览器（例如，如果你购买任何联想笔记本，它会预装联想浏览器）。
Safari是iOS/MacBook的东西。
Edge是存在的，但大多数时候在后台，你得先找到它。
Firefox、Opera等在中国浏览器市场中只算是一个背景噪音。
If you don’t have an ID card, a mainland phone number and a card issue by a mainland based bank, you’re basically gatekept out of Chinese internet.
It’s not a bug it’s a feature.
如果你没有身份证、大陆手机号和由大陆银行发行的卡，基本上就无法进入中国互联网。
这不是一个缺陷，而是一个特性。
I was able to set everything up with a foreign passport, foreign phone number and foreign bank card? Required manual verification (one week) but shit all works now
我能够使用外国护照、外国手机号和外国银行卡设置好一切？需要手动验证（一周时间），但现在一切都运转正常。
What about people visiting for a few days? It shouldn't take a week to be able to order food.
那么那些只来几天的人呢？应该不需要花一周的时间才能订餐吧。
Not even close. Alipay/wechat may allow foreign numbers, but a huge number of apxts within are still wired to only work with domestic numbers. Trying to enter anything else just bugs out.
差得不是一点半点。支付宝/微信可能允许外国号码，但是里面的大量小程序仍然只能与国内号码一起使用。试图输入其他任何东西都会出错。
apxt is a much better name than mini app
小程序是一个比迷你应用更好的名字。
Listing your point each by a number. 1-15.
Most Chinese people dont have to deal with issues 1-15 because they already have an Alipay account.
Like Taobao and Alipay belong to the same parent company, so you make an Alipay account, you have a taobao account automatically.
Most 2FA authentication happens because some machine somewhere believes you are a bot. This happens usually because you are a fresh account, and goes away when you use the app more to convince it otherwise.
The system is still shitty but most people in China dont encounter any of your problems. Which is why they put up or rather dont need to put up with it.
按照数字列出你的问题，从1到15。
大多数中国人不必面对1-15的问题，因为他们已经有支付宝账户了。
就像淘宝和支付宝属于同一家母公司，所以你创建一个支付宝账户，就会自动有一个淘宝账户。
大多数2FA身份验证的情况发生是因为某个地方的机器认为你是一个机器人。通常这是因为你是一个新账户，当你更多地使用应用程序以说服它时，这个问题就会消失。
系统仍然很糟糕，但中国大多数人都不会遇到你提到的问题。这就是为什么他们能够忍受，或者更准确地说是根本不需要忍受的原因。
Good answer
好答案
They don’t have a choice. Early days nearly all foreign companies such as Google, Facebook and Twitter are banned, others such as Amazon, PayPal and eBay’s are severely impaired. Almost all foreign IT companies can’t really survive Chinese environment. This caused Chinese IT companies seriously under-competition. They also don’t learn from others. All this factors make Chinese apps weirdly unique.
This also helped alibaba and tencent became giant which, in turn, further curbed competitions.
Another factor is not enough consumer protection. The government favors big corporations not people. So they can do whatever they want to and consumers can only accept and adapt
他们别无选择。早期几乎所有的外国公司，如谷歌、脸书和推特都被禁止，其他一些如亚马逊、贝宝和eBay等公司也受到严重限制。几乎所有外国IT公司在中国的环境中都难以生存。这导致中国IT企业严重竞争不足。他们也不学习别人。所有这些因素使得中国的应用变得奇异独特。
这也帮助了阿里巴巴和腾讯成为巨头，反过来又进一步抑制了竞争。
另一个因素是消费者保护不足。政府更倾向于支持大公司而不是个人。所以他们可以为所欲为，消费者只能接受和适应。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
As a HKer, using Taobao was definitely not as annoying as what you went through, as I didn't try to use someone else's account. Unlucky you figured out the hard way you can't pay for things with your Alipay for someone else's account and had to deal with the other shenanigans too.
Simply made an AlipayHK account with my phone number, HKID verification and optional face ID, lix a HK credit card, and off you go buying anything you want on Taobao in the mini app, auto converts to HKD too. Didn't find it shitty on my end.
And with AlipayHK paying for most things with HKD directly on the mainland with the same payment code is a godsend. Didn't need to bother with getting RMB cash anymore.
UI wise sure I don't quite like how Taobao looks either, western apps generally do a better job with aesthetics, but they still do what I need it to do.
作为一个香港人，使用淘宝绝对没有你经历的那么烦人，因为我没有尝试使用别人的账户。不幸的是，你通过艰难的方式发现你不能用自己的支付宝为别人的账户支付，还得应对其他繁琐的事务。
只需用我的电话号码、香港身份证验证和可选的人脸ID创建一个支付宝香港账户，链接一张香港信用卡，然后你就可以在淘宝上的迷你应用程序中购买任何你想要的东西，也可以自动转换为港币。我没觉得这很糟糕。
支付宝香港使用相同的支付代码直接在大陆用港币支付大部分费用，这真是天赐好事。再也不用为获得人民币现金而烦恼了。
就用户界面而言，我当然也不太喜欢淘宝的外观，西方的应用程序通常在美学方面做得更好，但它们仍然能完成我需要它们做的事情。
Why is it that I see so many articles say how advanced Chinese AI and fintech apps are, and yet the most common post here seems to be from people who cannot get the thing to function properly?
Is it really Best in Show or something that should probably be scooped up and bagged?
为什么我看到很多文章都说中国的AI和金融科技应用程序是多么的先进，然而这里最常见的帖子似乎都是有人无法使这些应用正常运行？
它真的是表现最好的，还是应该被捡起来装袋丢掉？
Because some western media love the whole ‘inscrutable asians are so much more advanced than us barbaric westerners and are going to eat our lunch' trope because fear sells newspapers and gets clicks on Facebook
因为一些西方媒体喜欢整个“高深莫测的亚洲人比我们这些野蛮的西方人更先进，他们会吃掉我们的午餐”的比喻，因为恐惧可以卖出报纸，也可以在Facebook上获得点击。
Chinese apps are shitty for different reasons. They are bloated, constant promotional events, in-your-face pop-ups, nonestop money siphoning schemes, forecful upxes every day etc.
But not for reasons you mentioned.
When I was in Sweden, getting a Swish, BankID in order to use most of their membership functionalities and payments at locals, were a gigant pain in my ass, most definitely more complicated and time consuming than setting up AliPay.
So no, people in China definitely do not get fed up with their apps due to your mentioned reasons.
中国的应用程序之所以糟糕，原因各不相同。它们臃肿，不断的促销活动，当面弹出窗口，不断的榨取金钱的计划，每天都强制更新等等。
但并非你提到的原因。
当我在瑞典时，为了使用他们的大部分会员功能和在当地进行支付，获取Swish（移动支付平台），BankID（身份验证工具）是一件非常麻烦的事情，绝对比设置支付宝更复杂和耗时。
所以，不，中国的人们绝对不会因为你提到的原因而厌倦他们的应用程序。
Trying to use someone else's account is a big no no. My wife tried to use a company card to buy stuff on my Amazon account, my Amazon account ended up getting flagged for fraud and I lost access to it, including all the Kindle books I bought. It took me 2 years of endless emails and phone calls to recover my account.
It is easy to get onto Amazon/Paypal, but the minute your account gets flagged for fraud/identity theft, it's going to be a complete nightmare because they don't do real ID up front.
试图使用别人的账户是一个很大的禁忌。我妻子试图使用公司卡在我的亚马逊账户上购买东西，我的亚马逊账号最终被标记为欺诈，我无法访问它，包括我购买的所有Kindle书籍。我花了两年时间不停地发邮件和打电话，才恢复了我的账户。
进入亚马逊/贝宝很容易，但当你的账户被标记为欺诈/身份盗窃时，这将是一场彻底的噩梦，因为他们不会提前进行真实身份验证。