S13红迪讨论帖：为什么没人讨论JDG？他们是有史以来最厉害的队伍！
It's crazy how underhyped JDG is on this sub. They may be the strongest team of all time and it feels like people outside of China aren't interested in them at all.
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银河战舰，启动！
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It''s crazy how underhyped JDG is on this sub. They may be the strongest team of all time and it feels like people outside of China aren''t interested in them at all.
这个版里面JDG竟然热度这么低。他们或许是有史以来最厉害的队伍，但是好像中国之外的观众都对他们一点兴趣也没有。
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通常来说，当出现一支像JDG这样强大而具有统治力的队伍时，我们会看见大量的伪粉丝，但我感觉这次却不一样了。感觉好像除了中国之外，几乎没几个人期待着JDG完成今年的大满贯成就。就连这个星期，论坛里最多的帖子也是关于T1的。我怀疑这是因为JDG的阵容太厉害了。现在世界前十名的选手里面，他们能占五个。尺帝可以说是世界上最厉害的选手了。或许当这种纸面实力如此强大的队伍赢得比赛的时候，人们会觉得无聊？
You're confusing JDG underhype and the annual T1/SKT/Faker megahype during worlds. Nothing really new, T1 is the most popular team in the world by far.
你是把没人吹JDG和每年世界赛期间一堆人来吹T1/SKT/Faker这两件事搞混了。没什么好新鲜的，T1就是目前为止世界上最受欢迎的队伍。
此外，人们对JDG没什么兴趣，是因为觉得他们肯定会赢，大伙都觉得这种事情会发生的时候，其实就不会有什么热度了。
For T1 we have the storyline of Faker reclaiming the crown after 7 years and forever silecing anyone who ever doubted that he's the one and only GOAT.
T1的剧本是Faker在七年之后重登王座，彻底让那些质疑他是史上唯一GOAT的人闭嘴。
JDG的剧本是历史首次黄金大满贯。
WBG至少算是个潜力巨大的黑马，包括The Shy的救赎之路，以及解说Caedrel作为忠实的信徒的故事。
所以我才觉得BLG才是四个夺冠可能性里面最无聊的那一个。
I dont even care about Faker winning, I just don't want to see Keria cry again.
我甚至都不在乎Faker还能不能赢。我只是不想看见Keria再输一次了。
可怜孩子在上届世界赛解锁了新记忆了。
BLG is arguably the best storyline though it's just those players don't resonate much with the western communities.
BLG或许才是剧本最吸引人的那一支队伍，尽管跟西方玩家之间的共鸣不大。
一群被踢的选手聚在一起，结果在LPL春季赛拿了第二名，MSI拿了亚军，LPL季军，现在是世界赛四强了。
BLG also has crazy storyline with Tabe, Bin or what Homme told Yagao last year
BLG的剧本也很不错，比如Tabe，Bin或者红米之前和Yagao说过的话。
what did homme tell yagao
红米跟Yagao说过什么
Last year during Worlds Homme asked Yagao if he thinks he has a chance to make it so far next year and Yagao shook his head
去年世界赛的时候，红米问牙膏他觉得明年还有没有机会打到这个高度，牙膏摇了摇头
dang and look at where yagao is now. Not to mention, yagao was the one that brought Knight to JDG, because he wanted his old team to succeed where he had failed them
我去，再看看今天的Yagao到了什么高度。更不用提，Yagao是把左手带到JDG的人，因为他想要让他的队伍在自己让他们失望的地方成功一次。
I know that during MSI after BLG beat GenG Yagao was talking with 369 and he said that he really wants to beat T1 too because if not then it would mean he was the problem in Worlds 22 semis (we are ignoring Hope)
我知道在MSI，BLG击败GENG之后，Yagao在和369说话，他说他真的想赢TI，因为如果赢不了的话，那就证明22年世界赛半决赛的问题出在他身上（我们不谈Hope）。
This stuff is heartbreaking to hear. The Baba Yagao is one of the best mid laners in the world while his confidence is so damaged. Yet he’s still performing, I want to see him confident.
这种事情听起来真的让人心碎。Yagao大爹是世界上最好的中单之一，但是他的信心受到了严重的损伤。然而他仍然能在赛场上给出优秀表现。我希望他能够自信起来。
BLG is the most exciting team. They are the only team without a Worlds champion. Also the whole year and before MSI they were massive underdogs and nobody put them even top 5 in the LPL. They were to able to beat most teams besides JDG and in MSI they were able to beat every other team besides JDG. Best storyline would be them going to finals against JDG from other side and JDG leads 2-0 but BLG reverse sweeps them for the championship.
BLG才是最令人兴奋的队伍。他们是唯一一支没有冠军队员的队伍。此外，在之前一整年里，包括MSI之前，他们都是黑马，甚至LPL内部都没人把他们放在前五的位置上。他们能够击败除了JDG之外的绝大多数队伍，并且在MSI上，他们也能击败除了JDG之外的每一支队伍。其实最好的剧本就是他们能从另一边杀到总决赛遇到JDG，先被JDG拿下两局，然后BLG横扫三局拿下总冠军。
Blg will be the first lpl team to win worlds on a full Chinese roster
BLG将会是第一个赢下世界赛的全华班LPL队伍。
I still think it's crazy people don't accept Faker as the undisputed league goat just because the game has evolved. He dominated during his reign unlike any other and still competes at the highest level every year. He's the Michael Jordan of LoL and it's not even close.
我还是觉得仅仅游戏本身在不断进化，人们就不认为Faker才是无可争议的英雄联盟第一人这件事简直无法理解。在他自己的王朝时期，他展现的统治力是任何人都无法匹敌的，并且每一年他都保持着最高水平的竞技水准。他就是英雄联盟里的迈克尔乔丹，甚至就连迈克尔乔丹都比不上他在英雄联盟里的统治力。
Who is unironically claiming that anyone besides Faker is easily the GOAT? Who would you even put above him? Ruler? MAYBE if he wins it all this year but he would still be behind Faker in total world titles...while Faker is regularly putting up top 2 and top 4 performances when he hasn't been winning it all
谁在认真地说除了Faker之外还有人是GOAT？你还能把谁放在他上面？Ruler？如果他能赢下今年所有比赛的话那或许吧，但他在世界赛总奖项数量上仍然落后于Faker……并且就算在Faker没能赢下比赛的那些年，他也在打进前二和前四。
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BLG have the 5 Chinese cant win storyline
BLG有五个中国人赢不了世界赛的剧本
Yeah but all those years T1 were still hyped even when they were expected to win. It’s just bias and no need to put logic behind it.
没错，但就算大伙都觉得T1能赢的那些年，T1的热度还是高。这就是对他们的偏袒，没必要讲逻辑的。
Because it'll always be interesting to see how many much Faker can win, especially after so long. JDG is like the 2017 Warriors who just added Durant. The proper reaction to them winning is "duh."
因为Faker到底还能赢多少这件事确实值得人们期待，尤其是在经历了这么久之后。JDG就像是2017年刚刚签下杜兰特的勇士队。对于他们赢了比赛，最妥当的回应就是“噢。”
I completely disagree with this take. It's very exciting watching teams of destiny win it all. We've never seen a team complete the golden road, having either T1 or JDG in the finals is hype
我完全不同意这个角度。看着那些命定赢下比赛的队伍赢下比赛，这本身就是非常值得兴奋的一件事。我们从来都没有见识过哪支队伍能够完成黄金大满贯，T1或者JDG无论哪支队伍能进总决赛都会很有意思
I completely disagree with your take. Yes they play beautiful league. They're the strongest in all roles. They win all the time. It was fun to watch for a while, but now my reaction is just: "No shit, the 16 million dollar superteam won again. Oh wow I did not expect that at all."
我完全不同意你的看法。没错，他们打的比赛确实很优美。他们在所有位置上都是最强大的。他们能够一直赢比赛。偶尔看一阵子还觉得有趣，但是现在我的反应就变成了：“别吧，1600万美元的银河战舰又赢了。哦天哪我真是完全没期待他们会赢呢。”
没什么悬念，没什么失望，没什么剧本。一点乐子没有。
他们差不多就是曼城。完美到无聊。
或许你喜欢看碾压局，那确实可以。但在我看来，没什么比一场已经注定的结局更无聊的故事了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
T1’s roster is the second most expensive at worlds. Likely not much cheaper than JDGs. If you want to support the plucky underdogs who had very little expectations coming into the year, there’s a team on the other side of the bracket that fits the bill.
T1的阵容也是世界赛第二贵的。可能没有比JDG便宜到哪去。如果你想要支持没人觉得的会赢的真正的黑马的话，那么另外一边有一只队伍能满足你的需求。
I agree but at the same time we know that the winner of the series will most likely win it all - both T1 and JDG have played against BLG and have won against them. Maybe WBG can surprise and win against BLG so finals could have some surprise but I would bet in a 3-0 for T1/JDG
我同意，但与此同时，我们都知道能赢下这场比赛的人，八成就能赢下总决赛了——T1和JDG都和BLG打过，并且都赢过他们。或许WBG能给我们一个惊喜，拿下BLG进入总决赛，但我还是愿意赌T1或者JDG在总决赛3：0碾压。
I think part of it is that people are thinking that JDG is the best team and favorite to win by default, so much more attention is being directed to the challengers who are trying to take them down
我觉得部分原因在于，人们都认为JDG是最厉害的队伍，最有希望能赢的就是他们，所以更多的注意力就被吸引到了那些在试着拿下他们的挑战者的身上。
Wrong reasons my friend. Truth is, few people from the West watch LPL, there are a lot more western LCK fans, always have been. 10 years ago OGN had control over the korean League and offered a damn good experience for english viewers while the english broadcast for the LPL was never that big. During the first few years Korea was also a better region than China, so if Korea has a much better broadcast for english viewers as well as better teams, whats the point of tuning into the LPL?
原因都错了，我的朋友。事实是，西方几乎没几个人看LPL。LCK的西方粉丝要多得多，几乎一直以来就是如此。十年前，OGN控制着韩国的英雄联盟比赛，为英语观众提供了十分优秀的观赛体验，而LPL的英语播报从来就没好过。在比赛的前几年，韩国也是比中国更厉害的赛区，所以如果韩国既能给英语观众提供更好的赛事转播，又能提供更好的队伍的话，那还有什么理由去看LPL呢？
韩国和西方之间的关系也更紧密，不只是长期高水准的英语转播，也包括政治。西方和韩国是盟友，所以双方的文化交流比起西方和中国要更多。中国和西方之间的文化交流并不算多，并且他们的英语转播也并没有那么火，总地来说作为一名新观众，想要进入LPL的社区没那么容易，因为他们的队伍和比赛数量都很多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
但如果你看职业选手的直播，或者去听职业领域专家的博客的话，基本上所有人都会给JDG最高的评价，认为他们是这届赛事最大的热门。
Never helped that the English lpl production was bootleg level, I remember at one point it was being casted in Australia. And they always used random casters and then when they got experience and proved to be good they went to Europe or America's. So many of the casters now that are good casted bootleg English lpl
没办法，LPL的英语节目制作真的只有业余水准，我记得之前有一次他们是在澳大利亚播的。而且他们永远只会使用路人主持人，等到他们有经验，证明自己有实力之后，他们就会去欧洲或者美洲。今天很多的主持人都是从LPL的业余转播那里发展出来的。
Yeah early LPL production was so shit, the streams were unwatchable. And god forbid you try to watch Demacia cup. Meanwhile OGN had amazing production and cozy Doa/Monte/Chobra streams
没错，早期的LPL节目制作真的就是一坨屎，他们的直播都没法看。可别提看个德玛西亚杯有多恶心了。与此同时，OGN的节目制作却非常优秀，并且他们拥有舒服的Doa/Monte/Chobra直播三人组。
I second the broadcast part, I used to watch the LCK like 7 years ago because it was the best league and the casters were great, I would have loved to watched LPL as the playstyle was so different (LCK macro and methodical, LPL FIGHT EVERYTHING KILL EVERYONE) but the broadcast availability was never quite there.
我认同转播质量这部分。我大概七年前看LCK，因为当时他们就是最棒的赛区，并且主持人也都不错，我本来很乐意看LPL，因为他们的打法非常不同（LCK讲究运营和方法论，LPL就是干他妈的把人全杀了），但他们的转播从来比不上。
文化和政治方面的看法我其实没什么感觉，毕竟英雄联盟一直都跟文化没什么关系（说实话这挺好的）
The cultural political aspect is overblown. If it exists at all, it is honestly more likely targeted Sinophobia.
文化政治方面的说法有点过头了。如果真的存在的话，说实话也大多都是跟恐华有点关系。
通过投资运动来洗白，部分原因就是通过和积极向上的组织合作，制造认知失谐，改写人们的道德标准。
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LCK就是这样，Kespa的组织者（我们就不必咬文嚼字了）就是一群腐败的寡头集团在搞市场营销。
T1是SK Telecom和Comcast联合注资的队伍。在美国你可能找破头也找不到Comcast的粉丝，但兄弟这帮人可是喜欢死T1和Faker了。
That’s most sports, in football most premier league teams are owned by Qatari, Saudi and Russian millionaire, people support them either way, it’s a fact we are willing to accept because they fund our little esports tournament
绝大多数体育运动都是如此。在足球领域，英超联赛的绝大多数队伍都是卡塔尔、沙特和俄罗斯的亿万富豪旗下的产业，人们还是会支持他们，我们乐意接受这一事实，因为他们愿意给我们小小的电竞赛事提供资金。
JDG is just not very popular
JDG就是没那么火。
If it was RNG with this performance people would be way more hype I think, JDG just doesn’t have the same notoriety
如果这个表现的是RNG的话，那么我觉得人们可能会热情地多，JDG确实没有声名狼藉到这个程度。
Pretty much. I don’t even care about them until someone pointed out their 3peat in LPL and the golden road. Had it been RNG or EDG I would have swallowed
确实如此。我甚至都根本不在乎他们，直到有人指出他们在LPL拿了三连冠，以及黄金大满贯的事。如果换成是RNG或者EDG的话，那我早就买账了。
Funnily enough, GenG also has a 3peat in LCK and if they won MSI they'd be in JDG's position right now. Granted we all knew what happened.
有趣的是，GenG也在LCK赛区拿了三连冠，并且如果他们当初赢下MSI，他们就站在JDG现在的位置了。可惜我们都知道发生了什么。
Yeah but most people even here when you can find a people that actually follow Pro LoL have very little idea about LPL. And JDG is amongs the ones with the less popular players in the west outside of Ruler.
没错，但是就算在这个论坛里，你能找到那种真的认真观看LOL职业比赛的人的地方，他们对于LPL的认知也非常狭隘。并且JDG的成员除了Ruler之外，都是西方受欢迎程度不那么高的成员。
I guess people just hate players who are really hyped and then don't win Worlds. Knight was hated for the same reason Chovy is.
我猜人们只是不喜欢那种赛前吹上天结果赢不下世界赛的人。左手被这里的人喷，理由和Chovy差不多。
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But Chovy also gets 100x more love and praise in the West by comparison. Knight has a much smaller fanbase but gets the same hate.
但是相比之下，Chovy也能得到来自西方的更多爱戴和赞美。左手的粉丝基数要小很多，但挨的喷却没少到哪去。
Does he? Before this year maybe but lately I rarely see him mentioned negatively.
他有吗，今年之前或许吧，但最近我很少看见他被喷啊。
It’s because JDG hasn’t been losing, guarantee you if they lose against T1 (or in finals) the knight flame will resurge better than ever
那是因为JDG今年没输过啊。如果他们输给了T1（或者是总决赛输了），那左手的清算之日就将到来
Which is strange because they play the best most exciting brand of league.
这挺怪的，因为LPL打的就是最令人兴奋的那套打法。
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I believe it's because Knight do not deliver in Worlds.
我觉得这是因为左手一到世界赛就变软脚虾。
Nah, its more so the fact that historically, fans have lean towards Koreans and see LPL as rivals or 'villians'. Not to mention T1 and Faker, so the 'hero' story gets pushed even further. If theres no KR teams in the semis and its a all LPL battle, JDG would get hyped up more. Now everybody wants them to lose just cause they're on the path of stopping Faker.
不，这是因为从历史上来看，这里的粉丝都更倾向于支持韩国队，他们会将LPL视为大敌或者“坏蛋”。更不用提T1和Faker了，所以“英雄”叙事甚至还能推得更远。如果半决赛一支韩国队也没有，只剩下LPL互相打的话，那么JDG的热度或许会高很多。但现在所有人都盼着他们输了，因为他们挡住Faker了。
历史上看，LPL一直都是反派的形象，除非你是Uzi粉（最近他在退役之后，评价也开始变差了。）
It's not a matter of being underhyped, they're just not fan favourites. (Or rather not-liked, not a feeling of animosity but rather disinterest) They're an import-filled superteam of a foreign league (for most people on a primarily western website) under the banner of an organisation that even domestically in the LPL isn't popular at all.
这不是热度高不高的问题，他们只不过并非粉丝最喜欢的队伍罢了（不如说是不被喜欢，并不是敌意，而只是没兴趣），他们是一支在外国（对于这个主要用户为西方人的论坛上的绝大多数人来说）联赛打比赛的、由外援组成的银河战舰，并且他们代表的商业集团就算在LPL内部也不是很火。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
JDG的粉丝基本上由两类人组成，第一：选手个人的粉丝，主要是左手和尺帝，后者或许比起LPL更喜欢LCK；第二，想要看他们的赛区或者他们支持的赛区打出好成绩的云玩家，他们觉得JDG是赢下比赛最大的希望。当然我不是说如果你支持JDG的话你就一定是这两者中的一员（至少我没故意这么说），但绝大多数人确实是这样。
此外，他们在半决赛对上的还是最受欢迎和爱戴的选手们，所以基本上所有没有为JDG加油的选手们都会不得不支持T1，只是因为他们有Faker。尽管有少数声音比较大的玩家不喜欢Faker，但是绝大多数“休闲”的LOL电竞观众们，包括中国粉丝，都是绝对尊重、甚至喜欢Faker的。
此外，虽然我只能代表我自己，但是我感觉（至少从直播来看），JDG凭借他们高超的游戏理解确实得到了应得的呼声。他们一整年都有着世界上最顶级的队伍的表现，并且他们也得到了承认。
但是仅仅因为你们是最厉害的队伍，并不意味着所有人都必须喜欢或者支持你们。
Jdg is so strong there isn t much to discuss.
JDG很强大，这一点没什么好评价的。
T1有Faker，但还有一点在于，他们今年输掉的比赛很多，所以他们几乎所有的比赛都有输掉的可能性，因此讨论他们，或者对他们的比赛感兴趣，是很容易的一件事。
目前的JDG给人的感觉就是他们赢到最后是不可避免的事情，他们并不需要拿出出人意料的BP或者战略，他们就是打得比所有人都好。
给他们打高分，和对他们不感兴趣，这两者并不相同。
此外，看LPL的西方观众也不是很多，所以并没有什么“个人”的联系。
JDG as a team is not clouted only outside China but in China as well, most ppl support WBG for Theshy and there's also a bunch of BLG fans for the full Chinese team. JDG as a team kind of lacks personality that stands out and fans especially western fans are not familiar with what kind of person they are. Hope JDG can get more fans and recognition by completing the Golden Road, for its not a guaranteed success for any kind of roster. This team is not just 5 top players at their role but also with amazing synergy and coaching stuff.
JDG这支队伍不仅在国外没什么讨论度，在国内也是，绝大多数人都因为TheShy而支持WBG，并且也有很多为了全华班而支持BLG的。JDG作为一支队伍，并没有那种代表性的特质，并且粉丝们，尤其是西方的粉丝们对于他们究竟是什么样的人并不熟悉。希望JDG能够在完成黄金大满贯之后得到更多的粉丝和认可吧，毕竟对于任何阵容而言，大满贯都不是注定会成功的，这支队伍目前不仅是五个位置上顶尖选手的集合，并且也有着出色的协同能力和教练团队。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
What is there to be hyped about? They are a money bought superteam that has been the favorites to win since the beginning of the year. How can you get hyped about that?
有什么好兴奋的呢？他们就是一个用钱砸出来的银河战舰，自从年初开始就一直是夺冠热门。这有什么好兴奋的呢？
用钱砸出来的银河战舰就是他妈没意思。我宁愿支持T1这种银河战舰，毕竟除了Keria之外，剩下的玩家都是来自同一个青训队，并且这支队伍从来没拿过第三名以下的名次，这才是一支值得支持的银河战舰。
我是JDG选手的粉丝，我觉得369是目前这个世界上最厉害的选手。但是为他们的队伍加油很困难，因为真的没什么好加油的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
绝大多数人或许不这么想，但这真的只是我个人不支持他们的原因。
WBG, BLG和LNG都是更受支持的LPL队伍，尤其是WBG，因为没有人预料到他们能打到这里，但他们竟然打到了半决赛。所以我愿意看见总决赛是WBG打T1。
ngl WBG has 2 of the most recognizable names for westerners in xiaohu and fucking TheShy
说实话，WBG拥有西方人最认可的两个名字，xiaohu和他妈的The Shy。
lpl is the least popular region to western fan, on top of that, jdg isn’t even very popular within their own region.
LPL是西方粉丝眼中最冷门的赛区，并且，JDG甚至在这个赛区之内都不算特别火。
更重要的是，他们目前为止的比赛对手都挺无聊的，先是BDS，一支进不了淘汰赛的队伍，没什么悬念，然后是BLG和LNG，这两支队伍已经跟他们交手过一百次了。KT本来算是比较有趣的对手，但是KT自己也算是黑马，并且除了第一把之外打得也跟别的队伍一样。现在他们遇上了T1，或许是英雄联盟历史上最受欢迎的队伍。我们或许再也看不见这样一支不论打成什么样都永远有热度的队伍了。
I’d also say JDG doesn’t get alot of hype cause they play very much standard league, their fundamentals are just insane. They aren’t reinventing the game so I think viewer fatigue is real on this team. I think this has something to do with it cause its not just an LPL thing, IG was insanely popular because they had the most ballsy bravado-heavy style.
而且我还想说的是，JDG的热度并不高，那是因为他们打的是非常标准的英雄联盟，他们的基本功简直强到变态。他们并不是在重新发明这款游戏，所以我觉得这个队伍的比赛看多了真的会累。我觉得应该和这个有关，毕竟这不是LPL的问题，iG当年火出天际，就是因为他们是最为肌肉拉满硬冲硬干的队伍。
Super teams are notorious for failing. This team was built for this moment. The the hype isn’t low, it’s just the expectations are high.
变成烟火的银河战舰还少吗。这支队伍建立起来就是等着失败的。他们的呼声并不低，只不过是对他们的预期太高了。
I think one reason is that some people (like myself) just don’t like the idea of a rich team buying out the best players to form a super team and then winning everything.
我觉得其中一个原因在于，某些人（包括我自己）就是不喜欢一个有钱的队伍把世界上最牛逼的选手买到一起然后组成银河战舰赢下所有比赛这种行为。
而且我也不知道JDG到底算不算是有史以来最有统治力的队伍。没错如果你只看比赛结果，和黄金大满贯之路的话（假设他们能拿到），那确实。但如果你看看这些比赛本身，那并非如此。他们打到今天为止的很多比赛都是非常接近的3:2，尤其是在MSI上打李宁和T1的时候。没错，他们最后是赢了，但他们也确实不是无法打败的。换句话说，如果我们把队伍按照实力分出档次，那么JDG虽然仍旧是最厉害的队伍，但绝大多数人应该还会把别的队伍归在和他们同一档的水平。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
但是如果你看看SKT过去的那几年，尤其是有Marin的那几年，你就会想起来，当时基本上没有一支队伍是跟他们差不多的。他们真的就是独一档。