为什么极端的亲以色列观点在印度如此受欢迎?
Why are extreme pro-Israel views so popular in India?
译文简介
过去可能是这样的，但难道当前这轮不必要的敌对行动不是哈马斯对以色列平民的无端攻击引发的吗？他们期望得到什么回报？花束和迪士尼乐园门票吗？
正文翻译
Krishnan Unni Madathil
This might have been so in the past; but is there any denying that the current round of needless hostilities were set off by the unprovoked attack on Israeli civilians by Hamas? What were they expecting in return? Flower bouquets and tickets to Disneyland?
The current clash has upxed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for Gen Z, and this time, the Israelis are on a surprisingly strong track when it comes to gathering public support. More notable is the quickly waning support for Hamas, who have gambled away all goodwill they had on a big one, and are left supported only by their hardcore brainwashed supporters across the world.
The world is seeing pretty clearly between delusion and steady-headedness this time.
The responsibility for the safety and security of the people of Gaza has been shifted to Israel as well. Let’s remember that Hamas was the elected government of Gaza. How responsible is it of them to gamble away their people’s security this way?
过去可能是这样的，但难道当前这轮不必要的敌对行动不是哈马斯对以色列平民的无端攻击引发的吗？他们期望得到什么回报？花束和迪士尼乐园门票吗？ 这次冲突已经为Z世代更新了以色列-巴勒斯坦冲突，而这一次，以色列在争取公众支持方面取得了出人意料的强劲表现。更值得注意的是，哈马斯迅速减少的支持率，他们在一次大举行动中赌掉了他们所拥有的所有好意，现在只剩下全球范围内被洗脑的核心支持者支持他们。 这一次，世界看得很清楚，区分了妄想和沉着冷静。 加上责任的转移，即加沙人民的安全和保障已经转移到了以色列身上。让我们记住，哈马斯是加沙的选民政府。他们这样冒险，把他们的人民安全赌掉，这是多么不负责任啊？
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India’s opinion has swung from caution to friendly to extreme support in just a few years. I will give the background for this.
Many Hindus and some non-Muslim Indians see Israel’s problems are similar to India’s. Even as a child I grew up hearing my father talk about the formation of Hamas and other terror groups that threaten peace. The narrative especially in upper caste Hindu families is that, Israel is bold enough to do something India is too cautious to do.
印度的观点在短短几年内从谨慎转变为友好，再到极力支持。我将给出这一背景。
许多印度教徒和一些非穆斯林印度人认为以色列的问题与印度的问题相似。就连我小时候也经常听到我父亲谈论哈马斯等恐怖组织的形成，这些组织威胁到和平。尤其是在上层种姓印度家庭中，这种叙述认为以色列勇敢地做了印度过于谨慎而不敢做的事情。
如果回顾历史，印度是世界上少有的犹太人从未受迫害的地方。印度通常喜欢那些不传教或对现有宗教构成威胁的宗教。这意味着印度一直对以色列和犹太人怀有同情之情。印度还成为第一个承认以色列国家的非西方国家。
然而，在尼赫鲁时代，印度在这个问题上过于谨慎，以免疏远印度穆斯林。在20世纪40年代至50年代，印度非常担心另一次分裂，因此人们一直非常重视印度穆斯林的意见。还有殖民时代的心态，印度认为许多以色列人是欧洲定居者，而巴勒斯坦人是本地人。随着来自中东各地的犹太人被清洗并被迫进入以色列，印度人将犹太人视为欧洲定居者的叙述消失了。
In some sense, Indian leaders saw their relationship with Israel as akin to keeping mistress — they loved the relationship but too shy to admit in public. Nehru’s descendents kept that policy. This began to change in the 1990s with the arrival of Narasimha Rao —the first important leader who came from outside the family. He began the formal relationship with Israel.
还有其他考虑因素。印度需要苏联的帮助，而苏联强烈支持巴勒斯坦事业。印度也急需中东石油，因此必须谨慎行事。
从某种意义上说，印度领导人将他们与以色列的关系视为保持情人关系的一种方式——他们喜欢这种关系，但在公开场合不敢承认。尼赫鲁的后代继续保持这一政策。这在20世纪90年代随着来自家族外部的重要领导人拉奥的到来而开始改变。他建立了与以色列的正式关系。
当印度人民党（BJP）在1998年崛起时，这种关系变得更加重要。印度人民党认为尼赫鲁的保留观点不重要，并开始公开展示这种关系。
1. There is no more Soviet unx and Russia’s opinions on Israel no longer matter to India.
2. India has a much better economic cushion and more diverse energy sources. Thus, Arab opinions don’t matter as much as it did. Even the Arabs have softened their stance on Israel.
3. India has moved closer to West and USA.
4. India sees deep tech relationship with Israel as quite useful. Especially in defense.
5. BJP has given up on Muslim votes and thus they don’t see a reason to placate them. The more the Indian Muslims talk about the Palestine cause, the more the Hindus support Israel.
出现了新的动态：
1. 苏联不存在了，俄罗斯对以色列的意见不再对印度重要。
2. 印度有更好的经济垫底和更多样化的能源来源。因此，阿拉伯国家的观点不再像以前那么重要。即使阿拉伯国家对以色列的立场也已经软化。
3. 印度与西方和美国的关系越来越紧密。
4. 印度认为与以色列在高科技领域的关系非常有用，特别是在国防方面。
5. 印度人民党放弃了争取穆斯林选票的理由，因此他们没有理由讨好他们。印度穆斯林越多谈论巴勒斯坦事业，印度教徒越支持以色列。
话虽如此，极端观点并不符合大多数印度教徒的意见。印度人民党政府承认巴勒斯坦权力机构，并坚决支持两国解决方案。此外，对待恐怖行动的反应比例也有很大不同。当巴基斯坦攻击印度时，印度会以相称的反击作出回应，使事件短暂化，从而在印度带来更多的和平。以色列的反击力度据说更强，导致问题长期存在。
Modi govt not antagonizing Arab countries is not due to consideration for 20 core muslims in India. Its because of our economic interest in middle east.Millions of Indians are working and doing business in Arab counties. Morever, we also have billions dollar trade with them. Middle east is very important market for our agricultural products and we also buy crude oil from them.Whereas,Isreal is very small country with small market for Indian products.
Even in the Nupur Sharma controversy. BJP forced to take action against her because of this Arab world influence not because BJP fearing backlash of Indian muslims.
莫迪政府不对阿拉伯国家采取对抗态度，这并不是因为考虑到印度的2亿穆斯林。而是因为我们在中东的经济利益。数百万印度人在阿拉伯国家工作和做生意，同时我们也与他们进行数十亿美元的贸易。中东是我们农产品非常重要的市场，我们还从他们那里购买原油。而以色列是一个非常小的国家，对印度产品的市场很小。 即使在努普尔·夏尔玛的争议中，人民党也被迫采取行动，因为阿拉伯世界的影响力，而不是因为人民党害怕印度穆斯林的反弹。
Pakistani terrorist attacks upon India, is not something threatening the existence of India as a nation - Pakistan is not refusing to recognize India as nation at all. Bharath has huge territory, population & entrenched. And Pakistan is a nuclear armed state- dysfunctional, but still a sovereign state. Hence Bharat’s response has to be measured.
Whereas Israel’s challenge is far more existential. They don’t have much territory compared to their Arab neighbours, population is hardly twice of Gaza+West Bank. Terrorists aren’t demanding just some piece of land like Kashmir, but the extinction of Jewish State & people.
So Israel can’t be ‘proportional’ like India, in response.
It is not Israel’s response to terrorism, that makes the problem persistent. But the Arab refusal to accept any two-state plan (5 & counting).
巴基斯坦对印度的恐怖袭击并没有威胁到印度作为一个国家的存在——巴基斯坦根本没有拒绝承认印度是一个国家。印度领土辽阔，人口众多，根深蒂固。巴基斯坦是一个拥有核武器的国家——功能失调，但仍然是一个主权国家。因此，印度的反应必须有分寸。
而以色列的挑战则更关乎生死存亡。与阿拉伯邻国相比，他们的领土不多，人口几乎是加沙和西岸的两倍。恐怖分子要求的不仅仅是克什米尔这样的土地，而是犹太国家和人民的灭绝。
所以以色列不能像印度那样“按比例”回应。
并不是以色列对恐怖主义的反应使问题持续存在。但是阿拉伯人拒绝接受任何两国方案(5个国家)。
Israel has no choice but to respond aggressively to create deterrence. For those who think this is unreasonable, imagine being surrounded by wolves from all sides who are ready to pounce on you and take a bite.
以色列别无选择，只能采取积极的反应来制造威慑。对于那些认为这样做是不合理的人来说，想象一下被从四面八方包围并随时准备扑向你并咬你一口的狼。
Ankur, I agree with you.
You have to treat the Islamic creed of extreme violence and treachery with ,often times, the same violence multiplied by 10.. It is their religion and their historical tradition.(Extreme violence and treachery.) The central Asian Turks or Mongols who took over the Leadership of Islam after the
12th centuary or thereabouts, horned Islam into an extremely violent and treacherous war machine.
Match their violence and they will run like rats. The Hindus who guarded the Khyber retained that motto.
Otherwise you loose to them.
Hindus came under the Muslim boot because we did not match their violence and treachery.
The Hindu Brahmans, the ultimate ‘ self preservation society’, will give you miriad justifications for cowardice.
But for the English war Canons and their notorious guile, there would probably still be Muslim rulers in India. Tipu's descendants would be ruling in the South and Murshidabad would still be the Capital of Bengal
Ankur，我同意你的观点。 你必须以相同的暴力乘以10来对待极端暴力和背叛的伊斯兰信条。这是他们的宗教和历史传统。中亚土耳其人或蒙古人在12世纪左右之后接管了伊斯兰领导权，把伊斯兰变成了一个极端暴力和背叛的战争机器。 匹配他们的暴力，他们会像老鼠一样逃跑。守卫开伯尔口岸的印度教徒保留了这个座右铭。 否则你会输给他们。印度教徒受到穆斯林的迫害，因为我们无法与他们的暴力和背叛相匹配。 印度的英国战争大炮及其臭名昭著的狡猾，使得印度可能仍然有穆斯林统治者。提普·苏丹的后代将在南部统治，并且莫斯里达巴德仍将是孟加拉的首都。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Israel knows that land as Israelites centuries before the advent of Islam. Later various dynasty rules Israelites like Romans, Assyrians, Ottoman and later Brits. Almost all of them throw away locals (Israelites) and persecution continued for centuries before Jews envision and rightfully restore the land which is historically theirs. Like their is only one country which has Hindu roots in India, same goes for Israel as that's the only country of Jews. So its not the fight for land but fight for Survivals for Jews.
在伊斯兰教出现之前的几个世纪，以色列人就知道这片土地。后来，罗马人、亚述人、奥斯曼人以及后来的英国人等不同王朝统治了以色列人。几乎所有这些王朝都抛弃了当地人（以色列人），迫害持续了几个世纪，直到犹太人设想并理所当然地恢复了历史上属于他们的土地。就像印度只有一个印度教国家一样，以色列也是唯一的犹太人国家。因此，这不是为土地而战，而是为犹太人的生存而战。
An excellent answer as usual! But I feel that two important points have been missed.
The support provided by Israel without any publicity during the 1971 war and the 1999 Kargil war is another important factor behind Indian people’s support for Israel.
Further, Indian people now genuinely feel that both Israel and India are at the receiving end of Islamic terrorism.
像往常一样，非常好的答案！但我觉得漏掉了两个重要的点。 1971年战争和1999年卡吉尔战争期间以色列在没有任何公开的情况下提供的支持，是印度人民支持以色列的另一个重要因素。 此外，印度人民现在真正感到，伊斯兰教恐怖主义对以色列和印度都造成了影响。
There’s a long list of militant Moslem countries and groups. Not so Jews. Not so other religions. Islam has militant tendencies. Of course, not all Moslems buy into this. They need to speak up. Islam needs to move out of the dark ages. Needs to renounce Jihad. Needs to resolve its own internal grievances i.e. loads of killing and suffering in Syria, and loads of refugees. Largely ignored by those obsessed with destroying Israel.
好战的穆斯林国家和团体不胜枚举。犹太人则不然。其他宗教则不然。伊斯兰教有好战的倾向。当然，并不是所有的穆斯林都相信这一点。他们需要大声疾呼。伊斯兰教需要走出黑暗时代。需要放弃圣战。需要解决自己内部的不满，如叙利亚的大量杀戮和苦难，以及大量难民。而那些执着于摧毁以色列的人却对此视而不见。
In all fairness, Kurds and Rohingyas have it much worse than Nigerian Muslims. No one bats an eyelid about them either, Kurds being bombed out of their existence by Turkey as I type this— while Erdogan and Turkey are worshipped by many in the subcontinent. Palestinians get all the support because of Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa compound, that’s pretty much it.
公平地说，库尔德人和罗兴亚人比尼日利亚穆斯林更加糟糕。没有人会去关心他们，库尔德人被土耳其炸毁，而我打这篇文章时，而埃尔多安和土耳其却受到许多次大陆的崇拜。巴勒斯坦人得到所有支持的原因是因为耶路撒冷和阿克萨清真寺，就是这样。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Are they?
I mean are they seriously?
I think most of the country doesn't know where Israel is located or anything about Israel - Palestine history
You do know Twitter, Quora and Social Media form maybe 5% or 10% of the country right?
他们是认真的吗？我是说他们是认真的吗？
我认为大多数国家不知道以色列位于哪里，也不了解以色列-巴勒斯坦的历史。您知道Twitter、Quora和社交媒体只占该国的5％或10％，对吗？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
India is just playing the non aligned card
It's why we abstain against most resolutions either favoring or against Israel or Palestine
On one hand - India wants to stay close to the West and the Americans and that means a positive relationship with Israel
On the other hand - India cannot antagonize the Middle East especially with Crores of Muslims in India
As to Pro Israel views being popular on Social Media
That's because Israel is perceived as a Nation fighting against Islamic terror and in India that's always a plus as far as Hindus are concerned
If you notice, even in Europe and UK and USA, the trend of Social media has changed and now there is only horror expressed at the death of so many Civilians
Yet India, we still have huge traction for the Israelis
印度并不支持以色列，印度只是打不结盟牌。这就是为什么我们在支持或反对以色列或巴勒斯坦的大多数决议上弃权。
一方面，印度希望与西方和美国保持密切关系，这意味着与以色列建立积极的关系。另一方面，印度不能激怒中东，尤其是在印度有亿万穆斯林的情况下。
至于在社交媒体上支持以色列的观点为何受欢迎，那是因为以色列被视为与伊斯兰恐怖主义作斗争的国家，在印度，对于印度教徒来说，这总是个优势。
如果您注意到，即使在欧洲、英国和美国，社交媒体的趋势也发生了变化，现在只有对许多平民死亡表示恐慌。
然而在印度，我们对以色列仍然有很大的关注。
Basically Modi has done exactly opposite of what Indian Government has done before 2013.
Starting from
Leaning towards US by Modi - which India has not done since the humiliation of Indira Gandhi by Nixon that led to the Defence pact with Soviet unx.
IGNORING the neighbouring Countries by Modi- It has cost India dearly as China has gained upper hand with Nepal, SriLanka, Bhutan, Burma (Myanmar), with the only exception of Bangladesh.
Increasing ties with Israel by Modi- ties with the Middle East are jinxed which affects trade relations with Billions involved just for the sake of Adani’s port in Israel.
Ignoring Russia by Modi- Grave mistake by ignoring Putin thus loosing the biggest support in the continent of Asia wherein Putin retaliated by supplying arms to Pakistan.
基本上，莫迪所做的与2013年之前的印度政府完全相反。 从以下方面开始： 向美国倾斜——自英迪拉·甘地被尼克松羞辱导致与苏联签订防务协议以来，印度从未这样做过。 忽视周边国家——这让印度代价高昂，因为中国在尼泊尔、斯里兰卡、不丹、缅甸（缅甸）方面占据了上风，唯一的例外是孟加拉国。 加强与以色列的联系——与中东的关系是倒霉的，这影响着涉及数十亿美元的贸易关系，只为了阿达尼港口在以色列的缘故。 忽视俄罗斯——忽视普京是一个严重的错误，失去了亚洲大陆上最大的支持者，普京以对巴基斯坦提供武器作为报复。
This is the price the nation is paying for electing a half-educated man to rule the nation. A man with self-esteem wouldn't have gone to meet the enemy nation's president eighteen times. Doing opposite of what the earlier PMs is no crime provided it brings good to the nation.
这就是国家因为选举一个半文盲来统治国家而付出的代价。一个有自尊心的人不会去拜会敌国总统十八次。反其道而行之并不是犯罪，前提是它给国家带来好处。
All true but Putin already clarified no major weapon is being supplied to pakistan by russia. And why would russia supply weapon to pakistan which is supplying weapon to ukraine and is side with ukraine in UN.
但是普京已经澄清，俄罗斯没有向巴基斯坦提供重武器。俄罗斯为什么要向巴基斯坦提供武器，而巴基斯坦正向乌克兰提供武器，并在联合国中支持乌克兰。
1. For RSS-BJP, crores of Indian Muslims do not mean a thing.
2. The Congress (a GOI policy by them) courted the Arabs by being supportive to Palestine. Supporting Palestine is showing to the world is that one is with the Arabs, that is amazing! Arabs do not care about Palestine, they are upset that Jews/Zionists control the dollars that they get when they sell the oil.
3. RSS courted the Israelis since the 80s, at least, they could not court US openly, since GOI was with USSR. The shift to US started in the late 70s, partly if not totally, because of the IITians who had a thing for nationalism and were very successful in US.
Now, we are completely in bed with Israel, doing business with US because of the much needed IT dollars, understand that Russia is the real friend and know that Middle East controls our energy and well paying semi skilled jobs.
Hence, the Indian foreign policy is about hatred of Muslims, economy, friendship and our soft spot. Given the history, this is just about logical.
1. 印度人民党-印度教民族主义者联盟认为印度的数千万穆斯林毫不重要。 2.国大党（一个印度政府的政策）通过支持巴勒斯坦与阿拉伯人接近。支持巴勒斯坦向世界表明与阿拉伯人站在一起，这很神奇！阿拉伯人并不关心巴勒斯坦，他们生气的是犹太人/锡安主义者控制了他们销售石油时得到的美元。 3. 印度教民族主义者联盟自80年代开始接近以色列，至少不能公开接近美国，因为印度与苏联在一起。向美国的转移始于70年代末，部分是因为印度理工学院的学生/校友对民族主义有追求，并在美国非常成功。 现在，我们完全与以色列合作，在美国进行业务，因为我们急需IT美元，要知道俄罗斯才是真正的朋友，知道中东控制着我们的能源和高薪半熟练工作。 因此，印度的外交政策是关于仇恨穆斯林、经济、友谊和我们的软肋。考虑到历史，这是很合乎逻辑的。
Adesina
Will someone educate me? When did islamic terrorism started?
It seemed that this problem of terror attack started post world war2.
So what went wrong, Arabs in particular and Muslims in general have not been this way forever. So what factors is responsible for this particular dexerious activisms?
有人可以教我吗？伊斯兰恐怖主义是什么时候开始的？似乎这个恐怖袭击问题是二战后开始的。那么，阿拉伯人特别是穆斯林并不一直是这样的。那么，是什么因素导致了这种有害的活动？