老外QA问答：你同意我的观点吗？美国的穷人是世界上最富有的穷人？
Do you agree with me that the American poor are the richest poor in the world?
译文简介
“美国是地球上最富有的国家，但其人民主要是穷人，贫穷的美国人被敦促要憎恨自己……事实上，在美国，贫穷被认为是一种犯罪，尽管美国是一个由穷人组成的国家。在其他国家，都有这样的民间传说，某个人，他很贫穷，但是他非常聪明和贤达，因此，这样的穷人比那些拥有权力和金钱的人，更值得尊敬。美国的穷人从来不会讲诉这样的故事。他们嘲笑自己，赞美那些过得比自己好的人。”
——库尔特·冯内古特（美国作家，美国黑色幽默文学的代表人物之一）
正文翻译
Do you agree with me that the American poor are the richest poor in the world?
你同意我的观点吗？美国的穷人是世界上最富有的穷人？
你同意我的观点吗？美国的穷人是世界上最富有的穷人？
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For cryin’ out loud.
I’ve travelled quite a bit, and the poor in the US reminded me of the poor in North Africa.
All poor Western Europeans are immensely better off than poor people in the US. For starters, they have free healthcare and education. Their general standard of living is a lot higher, guaranteed by social programs. As an example, poor people in Sweden are guaranteed Internet access – it’s considered a right as a citizen to have access to news.
天啊！荒谬！
我经常旅行，美国的穷人让我联想到北非的穷人。
任何一个贫穷的西欧人，都比美国的穷人日子过得好得多。首先，他们有免费的医疗和教育。在社会项目的保障下，他们的总体生活水平要高得多。
例如，瑞典的穷人有上网的保障——这被认为是公民获取新闻的权利。
I have just had a conversation with an American woman who disagreed with something I said who then wrote a novel sized post to tell me what a shithole country I lived in, with lots of photos of poor districts. It must have taken her some time to search for and gather them. The photos and her evidence to prove that I lived in a shithole country (her words) were of Wales in the UK.
I live in New South Wales, the most populous state in Australia! I know that Americans are geography challenged but I was amused and wanted to send her pictures of York in the UK, seeing she lives in NEW York, but I couldn’t find any pics of York that were as bad as the US NEW York.
我刚刚和一位美国女性进行了一次对话，她不同意我所说的话，然后，她写了一个长篇小说那么长的帖子，告诉我，我生活在一个多么糟糕的国家，里面包含了很多贫困地区的照片。她肯定是花了一些时间来寻找和收集它们。这些照片，以及她用来证明我生活在一个粪坑国家的证据（她的话），都是关于英国威尔士的。
我住在新南威尔士州，澳大利亚人口最多的州！我知道地理对美国人来说是个挑战，但我很开心，我想把英国约克（York）地区的照片发给她，因为她住在纽约（NEW York），可惜我找不到像美国纽约那么糟糕的约克的照片。
What I found shocking about the US, is the level of poverty and the level of exclusion these people suffer. Its offensive.
我对美国感到震惊的是，人们所承受的贫困程度和排斥程度。它令人反感。
I visited Florida and I was astounded at basically shanty towns , that folk live in .
我访问了佛罗里达州，我对那些基本上是住在棚户区的居民感到震惊。
The U.S. has the highest infant mortality rate of all the so-called first world democracies at 6.6 per 100,000. That’s worse than Russia (5.4), Cuba (5.1) and a huge gap from the Nordic countries (between 1.9 and 2.6). Infant mortality is a huge indicator of poverty and inequality. But with the crazy right wing against any type of birth control as well as making maternal and infant health so patchy, you pretty well have a guarantee of high rates.
在所有的所谓第一世界民主国家中，美国的婴儿死亡率是最高的，为6.6/10万。这比俄罗斯（5.4）、古巴（5.1）还要糟糕，与北欧国家（1.9至2.6）有巨大差距。婴儿死亡率，是贫困和不平等的一个巨大指标。由于疯狂的右翼反对任何类型的节育，这导致孕产妇和婴儿的健康状况如此参差不齐，但这样你就可能有很高的生育率。
I believe the USA is more extreme because of it’s quite high wealth inequality, which lead the country to more extremes than that in Europe. That isn’t to say USA isn’t doing anything about it, but Europe is just more equal, both income and wealth wise than USA. In my opinion this inequality comes down to 1 factor; the philosophy behind how the US market operates. Because the US market is highly speculative, with decent marketing, a company can grow fast and hit a wall shortly after that, which at the start allows for huge wealth creation, hits a peak and falls relatively fast, creating massive gaps. Also, drug addiction is higher and more persistent in the US culture, along with gang violence and gun violence. Europe took a ton of safety precautions after the financial crisis in 2008, but unfortunately USA didn’t committ to the same extend, leading to one crisis after the other.
我认为美国更极端，因为它的财富不平等程度相当高，这导致这个国家比欧洲更极端。
这并不是说美国对此无所作为，但欧洲在收入和财富方面都比美国更平等。
在我看来，这种不平等可以归结为一个因素：美国市场运作的哲学。
因为美国市场是高度投机的，有了体面的营销，一家公司可以快速增长，并在不久后碰壁，这在一开始就可以创造巨大的财富，达到峰值，然后相对较快地下跌，从而产生巨大的缺口。此外，在美国文化中，毒瘾更高、更持久，还有帮派暴力和枪支暴力。2008年金融危机后，欧洲采取了大量的安全预防措施，但不幸的是，美国没有采取同样的措施，导致了一场又一场的危机。
Unfortunately, here in US of America, the Republicans want to put more restrictions (work requirements) on food aid to the poor, when due to inflation and supply chain shortages, food costs have skyrocketed. This makes no sense to me, as food insecure households lead to higher health care costs in poor citizens as well as crime. The Republicans want to fight over the debt ceiling battle to make the poor in the US more poor.
Sweden is looking better all the time! Free Internet! Free Education and Healthcare! If we educated and fed our poor better, they might climb the ladder to the middle class.
不幸的是，在美利坚合众国，由于通货膨胀和供应链短缺，粮食成本飙升，共和党人希望对穷人的粮食援助施加更多限制（工作要求）。
我认为这是毫无意义的，那些粮食得不到保障的家庭，导致了贫困公民医疗成本的上升，以及犯罪。共和党人希望为债务上限之争而战，以使美国的穷人更加贫穷。
瑞典看起来一直都很好！免费互联网！免费教育和医疗保健！如果我们更好地教育和养活穷人，他们可能会爬上中产阶级的阶梯。
Some official statistics are shocking. 30% does not have enough cash reserve to pay $400 for unexpected health expense or minor car repair, 15% families have personal value which is negative, and have to choose daily between food, rent or medications.
一些官方统计数字令人震惊。30%的家庭，没有足够的现金储备，来支付400美元的意外健康费用或小汽车修理费，15%的家庭的私人财产为负，每天必须在食物、租金或药物之间做出选择。
Poor in the US get free education, subsidized housing, and free healthcare as well.
The US poverty rate is at 13% and falling. It is lower or comparable to many western European countries. The UK alone has a 22% poverty rate.
Poor people in the US struggle with obesity. Poor people in Africa struggle to even find food.
Do you really even know what you're talking about?
My guess is you watch too much TV, and don't actually pay attention to the reality on the ground.
美国的穷人可以获得免费教育、补贴住房和免费医疗。
美国的贫困率为13%，而且还在下降。它低于或可与许多西欧国家相媲美。英国单独就有22%的贫困率。
美国的穷人与肥胖作斗争。非洲的穷人甚至很难找到食物。
你真的知道你在说什么吗？
我猜测，你看了太多的电视，却没有真正的关注现实。
First I agree the poor in the the US aren’t the richest poor in the world. But we do have free access to education through high school. I know a lot of people who started out poor here who are now doing quite well. (My mother is a millionaire. )Actually collegiate financial aid packages that pay for everything are available if your family is dirt poor.
As far as your initial line “For crying’ out loud.” Did you consider the source of the question? It was asked by Murli Manohee Vajepai who claims to live in New York. If you look at his profile questions and answers, he’s an idiot. He likes to throw out stupid comments and questions so that people get outraged.
You took the bait.
首先，我同意美国的穷人，并不是世界上最富有的穷人。但我们确实可以接受免费教育到高中。
我认识很多人，他们一开始很穷，现在过得很好。（我妈妈是个有钱人。）事实上，如果你的家庭非常贫穷，大学里的经济援助计划可以支付所有费用。
至于你最开头的那句“天啊！荒谬！”，你考虑过这个问题的来源吗？
这是一个自称住在纽约的叫Murli Manohee Vajepai的人问的。如果你看看他的个人资料中的问题和答案，你就会明白，他就是个白痴。他喜欢抛出愚蠢的评论和问题，让人们感到愤怒。
你上当了。
I know US poor, not homeless or extreme poverty, just regular first/second quintile people, who HAD to move to Costa Rica to have affordable health care.
And that is extremely sad.
我了解美国的穷人，我指的不是那些无家可归者或极端贫困者，而是那些普通的位于20%到40%层次的人，他们不得不搬到哥斯达黎加，才能获得负担得起的医疗保健。
这是非常可悲的。
US healthcare was actually somewhat “affordable” until about 1980. Things went downhill after that. Same was true about education past the high school level. Without Republicans of the sort we have now, the US would be a lot more like the rest of the developed world.
1980年之前，美国的医疗保健实际上在某种程度上是“负担得起的”。在那之后，情况就急转直下了。高中以上的教育也是如此。如果没有我们现在这样的共和党人，美国将更像其他发达国家。
I grew up in the USA and lived there until about 5 years ago, and there is an obvious answer to this question: The poor in Western Europe are FAR FAR better off than the poor in America. It isn’t even close, and the difference is even greater if we start talking about Scandinavian countries.
I don’t know much about the various welfare systems and the mathematical comparisons, but OMG I would SO MUCH rather be poor in Western Europe or Scandinavia than in the USA. Wow big difference.
我在美国长大，直到大约5年前一直住在那里，这个问题有一个显而易见的答案：西欧的穷人比美国的穷人富裕得多。美国连接近都做不到，如果我们开始谈论斯堪的纳维亚人（北欧人）国家，差异就更大了。
我对各种福利制度和数学比较不太了解，但，天哪，我宁愿在西欧或斯堪的纳维亚（北欧）贫穷，也不愿在美国贫穷。哇，差别太大了。
Here are poor people in America:
以下是美国的穷人：
Here are poor people in Britain:
以下是英国的穷人：
No, the American poor are, by no means, the richest poor in the world.
America is the wealthiest country in the world, in terms of GDP, it’s one of the richest in the world, in terms of average income, and it has more billionaires than any country by far.
But the US also has disturbingly high levels of inequality, and an upsettingly high level of poverty, compared to other wealthy countries (American has twice as many people per capita living on less that $5.50 per day than Canada or the UK, and ten times as many as France or Germany). And we don’t tend to fund as comprehensive social services and social programs for the poor.
The poorest Americans are presumably better off than the poorest people in the DRC, or even India or Brazil. But compared to the the poorest people in Canada, Australia or Western Europe? We probably don’t look so good.
不，美国穷人决不是世界上最富有的穷人。
就GDP而言，美国是世界上最富有的国家，就平均收入而言，美国也是世界上最富裕的国家之一，而且它的亿万富翁数量，比迄今为止的任何国家都多。
但与其他富裕国家相比，美国的不平等程度也高得令人不安，贫困程度也高到令人不安（美国人均每天生活费低于5.50美元的人数，是加拿大或英国的两倍，是法国或德国的十倍）。我们也不倾向于为穷人提供全面的社会服务和社会项目。
据推测，最贫穷的美国人比刚果民主共和国、甚至印度或巴西最贫穷的人过得更好。但与加拿大、澳大利亚或西欧最贫穷的人相比呢？我们可能看起来不太好。
I think the question itself is misguided, but you’re comparing a little boy who seems to be in some sort of government subsidized housing to a woman who decided to live in a tent near a pile of trash.
According to the United States Census Bureau over 30 million Americans live in poverty. Poverty is defined as reported income below $21,960 for a family of 3 in 2021.
However this figure does not include the social benefits received:
free medical coverage (Medicaid).
free college or university education.
free or subsidized housing (section 8). These are normal private sector rentals where the government simply pays part or all of the rent.
free food (SNAP ~ $200 / month) + food pantries for anyone who runs out.
The average American family defined as poor lives in an private, air conditioned, centrally heated house or apartment, in good repair.
They own a vehicle. Slightly less than half of poor families have two or more cars.
At least one TV with cable or satellite, computer or tablet with internet and a smartphone.
They shop at regular stores like Walmart for everyday stuff and have all the household amenities of the middle class with the “poverty” status being defined only as their official income figure which they report to the IRS.
我认为，楼上的答案是在故意误导，你把一个似乎是住在某种政府补贴住房里的小男孩，和一个决定住在垃圾堆附近的帐篷里的女人，做出比较。
根据美国人口普查局的数据，超过3000万美国人生活在贫困之中。贫困是指：2021年，一个三口之家的收入低于21960美元。
然而，这一数字不包括收到的社会福利：
1、免费医疗保险（医疗补助）。
2、免费的学院或大学教育。
3、免费或补贴住房（第8条）。这些都是正常的私营部门运营的，政府只需支付部分或全部租金。
4、免费食品（补充营养援助项目~200美元/月）+为任何租约到期的人提供食品储藏室。
被定义为穷人的普通美国家庭，住在维修良好的私人的、有空调的、有中央供暖的房子或公寓里。
他们拥有一辆车。不到一半的贫困家庭，拥有两辆或两辆以上的汽车。
至少一台有线或卫星电视、电脑或平板电脑、互联网和智能手机。
他们在沃尔玛等普通商店，购买日常用品，拥有中产阶级的所有家庭设施，“贫困”状态仅被定义为他们向美国国税局报告的官方收入数字。
Well I'm not American or European so I don't have any skin in the game so to speak. But comparing US and Canada/U.K. poverty in absolute number isn't all that fair.
While US may have twice the number of poor people, it has approximately 8 times the population of Canada and 5 times the population of U.K and France.
Now in case of France and Germany US still has greater ratio of poor people, but it is certainly not 10 times.
好吧，我不是美国人或欧洲人，所以，可以说我对这个问题没有任何偏向性。但将美国的贫困人口数量，与加拿大/英国的贫困人口数量，进行比较并不公平。
虽然美国的贫困人口，可能是加拿大的两倍，但其人口大约是加拿大的8倍，是英国和法国的5倍。
现在以法国和德国为例，美国的贫困人口比例仍然更高，但肯定不是10倍。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I'm going to edit the post, because this misconception keeps coming up. I don't mean absolute numbers I mean twice the percentage, twice the people per capita. 1.7% of Americans live on less than $5.50 a day. In Germany, it's 0.2%. That's not about population size, it's about social and economic structure.
我将编辑这篇文章，因为这种误解不断出现。我指的不是绝对数字，我说的两倍，指的是百分比，百分比的两倍。
1.7%的美国人每天的生活费低于5.50美元。在德国，这是0.2%。这与人口规模无关，而是与社会和经济结构有关。
I don’t know how does it look now, but when my parents went on a trip to the US in the late 90s they returned shocked at the levels of poverty in some areas. They have never seen anything like it. And they travelled from Poland just after transformation from communism and before the European unx membership (which was single most important factor for Poland’s development). They have also previously traveled Romania, Bulgaria during the 1980s and still it was the US that shocked them.
EDIT: it doesn’t mean that it looked much worse than poor areas in the Balkans. I think a lot of this opinion came out of disbelief and level of expectation - you don’t expect these levels of poverty in a developed country.
我不知道现在的情况如何，但当我的父母在90年代末去美国旅行时，他们回来时，对一些地区的贫困程度感到震惊。他们从来没有见过这样的事情。他们是在从共产主义转型后、加入欧盟（这是波兰发展的一个最重要的因素）之前从波兰来的。他们之前也曾在20世纪80年代去过罗马尼亚、保加利亚，但令他们震惊的仍然是美国。
编辑：这并不意味着，美国看起来比巴尔干半岛的贫困地区糟糕得多。我认为很多这种观点都是出于怀疑和期望——你绝对想不到发达国家会出现这样的贫困水平。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves.... It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
“美国是地球上最富有的国家，但其人民主要是穷人，贫穷的美国人被敦促要憎恨自己……事实上，在美国，贫穷被认为是一种犯罪，尽管美国是一个由穷人组成的国家。在其他国家，都有这样的民间传说，某个人，他很贫穷，但是他非常聪明和贤达，因此，这样的穷人比那些拥有权力和金钱的人，更值得尊敬。美国的穷人从来不会讲诉这样的故事。他们嘲笑自己，赞美那些过得比自己好的人。”
——库尔特·冯内古特（美国作家，美国黑色幽默文学的代表人物之一）
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
you used a picture of a homeless person in the first and then a child from an estate but not even the worst looking estate fyi.
maybe try using pictures that are a bit more like for like
你先用了一张无家可归的人的照片，然后用了一个来自庄园的孩子的照片，甚至不是最糟糕的庄园。
也许可以尝试使用更相似的图片：
Daniel Aboaf
No. They are not even the richest poor in the First World.
This is a poor neigbourhood in Finland .
不，他们甚至不是第一世界最富有的穷人。
这是芬兰一个贫穷的街区。
This is a poor neigbourhood in the United States (makeshift shelters and tents).
The Gini index of the United States (0.49) is similar as in many Third World countries. It suggests the rich are filthy rich in the US and the poor are dirty poor in the US.
这是美国一个贫穷的街区（临时搭建的避难所和帐篷）。
美国的基尼指数（0.49）与许多第三世界国家的基尼指数相似。这表明，在美国，富人是富得流油又肮脏的富人，而在美国，穷人是肮脏的穷人。
Asoka Indrasoma
We, in Sri Lanka, a ‘developing country’ and in an economic crisis, don't have homeless people defecating on city streets…just saying…
我们斯里兰卡，是一个处于经济危机中的“发展中国家”，但没有无家可归的人在城市街道上排便……我随口说说……
All of those poor people really just need to find better jobs, take a few courses, sell their kidneys or something, and they’ll be fine. Ah. The land of the free and the home of the brave. What a joke.
所有这些穷人，真的只需要找到更好的工作，上几门课程，卖掉他们的肾脏或其他什么，他们就会好起来的。啊！自由的土地，勇敢者的家园。真是个笑话。
Finland has a population of 5 million and is in the freezing north where you cannot be living on the street. Absurd comparison to make middle class Quora snobs feel good about themselves. Compare a sample of 300 million Europeans to the US. In Greece we have Gypsy camps that look like the makeshift shelters of the US homeless. Maybe worse. Let alone when you include swaths of East Europe. We do not have the homelessness of LA's skid row, but let's at least make intellectualy honest comparisons.
芬兰有500万人口，地处寒冷的北方，所以，你不能流落街头。
荒谬的比较，让QA的中产阶级中的势利小人，自我感觉良好。
将3亿欧洲人的样本与美国进行比较。
在希腊，吉普赛人的营地，看起来和美国无家可归者的临时住所非常像。也许更糟。更不用说整个东欧大片的地区了。
我们的无家可归者，没有在洛杉矶聚集成一个贫民区。至少让我们在理智上诚实地进行比较。
There is way far less homelessness in Mexico City than in New York…. besides that, we are having a heavy influx of US immigrants, many of them from “well-to-do” Californians…
墨西哥的无家可归者，比纽约少得多……除此之外，我们这里来了大量的美国移民，他们中的很多人来自“阔绰”的加州……
No. I absolutely do not agree with that statement. The way the United States treats its poorest and neediest is shameful. Yes, you can find places that are worse, but that isn’t saying much. The poor in the United States are clearly and demonstrably not the “richest poor in the world.”
To even ask that question is to display a total lack of understanding or compassion. It also displays spectacular ignorance and low intelligence. The poor are not “rich” anywhere. That sentence is oxymoronic. It implies that the poor aren’t really poor and don’t actually need any public assistance. Such questions are usually heard coming from people who want an excuse for their own cupidity.
It also isn’t really a question. The way it’s presented makes it perfectly clear that it is really a statement, poorly disguised as a question.
不，我绝对不同意这种说法。美国对待最贫穷和最需要帮助的人的方式是可耻的。是的，你可以找到更糟糕的地方，但这并不能说明什么。美国的穷人，显然不是“世界上最富有的穷人”。
问这个问题，是完全的缺乏理解或同情，它还表现出惊人的无知和低智商。穷人在任何地方都不是“富人”。那句话自相矛盾。这意味着穷人并不是真正的穷人，实际上并不需要任何公共援助。这样的问题通常来自那些想为自己的贪婪找借口的人。
这也不是一个真正的问题。它的呈现方式非常清楚地表明，它实际上是一个声明，伪装成一个问题，真的很糟糕。
No. It doesn’t sound as if you have traveled around much.
Poor people in the U.S. are worse off than poor people in most other developed countries. In most developed countries, even poor people get basic housing and healthcare.
I would argue that even in Morocco, where I have lived, the poor are better off than the poorest people in the U.S. They mostly sleep indoors, and good food is cheap and plentiful.
不，听起来你好像不怎么四处旅游。
美国的穷人，比大多数其他发达国家的穷人更穷。在大多数发达国家，即使是穷人也能得到基本的住房和医疗保健。
我认为，即使在我居住过的摩洛哥，穷人也比美国最贫穷的人过得更好。他们大多睡在室内，好的食物又便宜又充足。
I moved to Kuwait in 1981 and stayed for 6 years. A friend who had lived there for a long time told me: “Kuwaiti society has 3 levels: the millionaires, the hundred millionaires, and the billionaires.” I asked: “Great, where do I fit in?” He replied: “You don’t. You’re just a servant. But as an American you’re a high level servant.”
我1981年搬到了科威特，在那里住了6年。
一位在那里生活了很长时间的朋友告诉我：“科威特社会有三个层次：有钱人、超级有钱人、巨富。”
我问：“那太好了，那个层次适合容纳我？”
他回答：“没有地方，你只是一个仆人。但作为一个美国人，你是一个高级仆人。”
Far from it.
American society makes minimal provision for ‘being poor’ the standard of public services is worse than many third world countries.
Further to that, Poor people in the US have very limited access to healthcare and further education.
The dominant philosophy in America is very much that peoples worth is defined by their wealth. People are despised by many simply for being poor.
远非如此。
1、美国社会对“贫穷”的规定很低——公共服务的标准比许多第三世界国家都差。
2、除此之外，美国穷人获得医疗保健和继续教育的机会非常有限。
3、美国的主流哲学是，人们的价值取决于他们的财富。人们仅仅因为贫穷而被许多人鄙视。
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Sort of.
Being poor is the dumps no matter where you live. But, would you rather be poor in America or poor in Haiti? America is one of the richest countries in the world. Sometimes we don't behave like we are. By not offering fair and competitive wages to our labor force, but we are. Western Europe is really the only place that has as good a standard of living, roughly. Maybe slightly better. Because they have more safety and social programs accommodating the poor than America.
有那么点儿。
无论你住在哪里，贫穷都是令人沮丧的。但是，你宁愿在美国贫穷还是在海地贫穷？美国是世界上最富有的国家之一。
有时候，我们表现得没有我们认为的那样好。我们没有向劳动力提供公平和有竞争力的工资，但我们确实如此。
大致来说，西欧确实是唯一一个生活水平更高的地方。也许稍微好一点。因为他们有比美国更多的安全和社会项目来照顾穷人。