福特董事长告诉媒体，美国尚无法在电动汽车领域与中国竞争
US can''t yet compete with China on EVs, Ford chairman tells CNN
译文简介
我想指出的是，通用汽车目前在美国销售中国制造的内燃机，沃尔沃即将销售中国制造的电动汽车。
正文翻译
US can''t yet compete with China on EVs, Ford chairman tells CNN
福特董事长告诉媒体，美国尚无法在电动汽车领域与中国竞争
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I’d like to point out that GM currently sells Chinese-made ICE in the US and Volvo is about to be selling a Chinese-made EV.
我想指出的是，通用汽车目前在美国销售中国制造的内燃机，沃尔沃即将销售中国制造的电动汽车。
And Tesla is selling Chinese made Tesla in Canada.
特斯拉正在加拿大销售在中国制造的特斯拉。
I own a Polestar which is a Chinese made Volvo.
我拥有一辆北极星，这是一辆中国制造的沃尔沃。
when it comes to money, corporations forget about morals or future prospects. CCP still conducts ethnic and religious genocide of groups like Uighurs and Falun Dafa practitioners, but many businesses close their eyes on this
当涉及到钱的时候，企业就会忘记道德或未来的前景。中国仍然对......等群体进行......，但许多企业对此视而不见。
I wish they had made the mustang EV in a mustang body… it’s close to a model 3 in dimensions so,seems like they could have pulled it off. Make the SUV style too, just give it a new name
我希望他们能用野马的车身制造野马电动车……它的尺寸接近 Model 3，所以看起来他们可以成功。 SUV风格也搞起来，给它起个新名字就好了
Speaking of which, is there any plans take an actual mustang sports car which is an EV?
说到这里，有没有计划推出一辆真正的电动野马跑车？
They don't make truly EV Mustang because coupe market is seriously dying. If you just wish it happening but not buy it, it doesn't work for automaker. Ford cares about profits, not their sports car reputation.
他们不生产真正的电动野马，因为轿跑车市场正在严重消亡。如果你只是希望它发生却又不去购买它，那么这对汽车制造商来说是行不通的。福特关心的是利润，而不是他们的跑车声誉。
They could definitely build a more coupe-like Mustang EV. They just choose not to
他们绝对可以打造一款更像轿跑车的野马电动汽车。他们只是选择不这样做
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
We all know that sedans are a shrinking market, you should see what sales of coupes are. The market is small and demand is right there with it.
我们都知道轿车是一个萎缩的市场，你应该看看轿跑车的销量是多少。市场很小，需求就那么点。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
What he means is that Ford can't compete with Chinese EV companies.
他的意思是，福特无法与中国电动汽车公司竞争。
What he means is "Congress, give US Auto companies more subsidies/tax credits!"
他的意思是“国会，给美国汽车公司更多补贴/税收抵免！”
More free money for multi-billion dollar corporations to make even more money off of.
为数十亿美元的公司提供更多的免费资金，以让他们赚取更多的钱。
The weird requirements for the tax credits is pretty nationalistic and anti-competitive. If gives consumers less choice and slows EV adoption in America. Unless there is a huge push for affordable EVs without government incentives we will always be behind China.
税收抵免这种奇怪的要求是相当民族主义和反市场竞争的。如果给消费者带来更少的选择，并减缓美国电动汽车的采用的话。除非在没有政府激励的情况下大力推动平价电动汽车，否则我们将永远落后于中国。
Your assumption is that this is a bad thing. Why?
The goal of the tax credits is to balance EV adoption with getting supply chains locally sourced for national security reasons. Why would the United States voluntarily let China - a non-ally - become the OPEC of battery/energy of the 21st century? The goal of the inflation reduction act is to allow the Untied States to become self sufficient in this regard, and it's absolutely the correct move.
在你的假设里这是一件坏事。为什么？
税收抵免的目标是平衡电动汽车的采用和为了国家安全的原因让供应链在当地采购。为什么美国会自愿让中国这个非盟友成为21世纪电池/能源的欧佩克？降低通货膨胀法案的目标是让美国在这方面实现自给自足，这绝对是正确的举动。
It depends on why are we paying for EVs in the first place. Are we trying to have a clean emissions free future or are we just trying to make profits for American companies. We aren't gonna have any progress in reducing emissions if we artificially hold ourselves back by needlessly starting conflict with China. US needs a bad guy to keep their hegemony and right now it's China.
这首先取决于我们为什么要为电动汽车付费。我们是在努力拥有一个清洁、无排放的未来，还是只想为美国公司创造利润。如果我们通过不必要地与中国发生冲突来人为地阻碍自己，那么我们在减排方面就不会取得任何进展。美国需要一个“坏人”来维持其霸权，而现在就是中国。
It's possible to reduce emissions and promote American interests in energy security.
Right now, selling EVs isn't really a problem. The infrastructure to support EVs still needs massive development. I don't think net emissions would change much if tax credits were available to imported cars.
减少排放并促进美国在能源安全方面的利益是可以两全其美的。
目前，销售电动汽车并不是迫切的问题。支持电动汽车的基础设施仍需要大规模发展。我认为，如果对进口汽车实行税收减免，净排放不会有太大变化。
It’s nationalistic because it’s paid for by American tax payers. It’s inherently nationalistic lol. Giving away money to china to grow their EV industry makes no sense
这是民族主义的，因为它是由美国纳税人买单的。这本质上是民族主义的，哈哈。向中国提供资金来发展其电动汽车产业毫无道理
Here in the Netherlands tax incentives apply for every sold beneath a catalog price of € 45.000 disregarding where it was made. And we don’t suffer from ridiculous perversions like markups on the catalog price.
在荷兰，无论在哪里生产，凡是目录价格低于45.000欧元的产品，都可以享受税收优惠。而且我们没有像在目录价格上加价这样可笑的变态行为。
Cool! Netherlands also doesn’t have a large automotive industry competing with China.
酷！荷兰也没有与中国竞争的大型汽车工业。
So?
所以呢？
It's hard to compete with Chinese EV in China tbh. There remains some wage and manufacturing gaps that mean it's relatively cheaper to make shit in China. No real surprise the upcoming Volvo EV SUV is being made in China and sold relatively cheaply to other markets, with good profit margins (allegedly). And people will say "that's because they're sharing platforms, etc" but every modern automaker does cross platform sharing lol - few make good margin on a 35k EV CUV.
说实话，在中国很难与中国电动汽车竞争。工资和制造业仍然存在一些差距，这意味着在中国制造东西相对便宜。毫不奇怪，即将推出的沃尔沃电动SUV在中国制造，并以相对便宜的价格销往其他市场，利润率很高（据称）。人们会说“那是因为他们在共享平台”等等，但每个现代汽车制造商都在进行跨平台共享，很少有人能在3.5万的电动汽车上获得良好的利润。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Volvo is now owned by Geely. So, am not surprised with that.
沃尔沃现在归吉利所有。所以，我对此并不感到惊讶。
Hard to compete when you are paying your assembly workers $1-$3/hr. What is the current Ford and GM unx assembly workers' pay?
当人家向组装工人支付 1-3 美元/小时的工资时，你很难与之竞争。目前福特和通用汽车工会装配工人的工资是多少？
You gotta take cost of living into account as well
你还得考虑生活成本
Ford and GM are paying Mexicans $3/hr to assemble your pickup trucks. The Chinese won’t work for that kind of crap money anymore. Wages in China went up drastically.
福特和通用汽车向墨西哥人支付每小时 3 美元的费用来组装皮卡车。中国人不会再为那种小钱工作了。中国的工资已经大幅上涨。
Ive worked at a certain bavarian maker. Labor costs are not very large problem. Each car ends up up with several thousand in labor costs only as the cars are built so fast.
The labor cost is enormous when split per day. But per car it is miniscule.
我曾在一家巴伐利亚制造商工作过。劳动力成本并不是很大的问题。由于汽车制造速度很快，每辆车最终只需要几千美元的劳动力成本。
如果按天计算，劳动力成本是巨大的。但每辆车的成本却微乎其微。
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the market leader from the US? Isn't the most sold car of 2022, and so far in 2023, an EV from a US company?
What am I missing?
如果我错了请纠正我，但电动汽车市场的领导者不是来自美国吗？2022 年以及 2023 年迄今为止最畅销的汽车不是来自美国公司的电动汽车吗？
我错过了什么？
Model 3 RWD
For whatever reason people still think of the U.S. automotive market in terms of "the big threetwo". It's especially weird when they've shipped so much of the manufacturing elsewhere and the most American built vehicles are Teslas and Hondas.
无论出于什么原因，人们仍然认为美国的汽车市场是“三巨头”的天下。当他们将如此多的制造业转移到其他地方而大多数美国制造的车辆是特斯拉和本田时，这一点尤其奇怪。
Let's be honest, the average American still thinks Dodge/Chrysler is more American than Tesla. A good number of them probably thinks Toyota is more American than Tesla.
老实说，普通美国人仍然认为道奇/克莱斯勒比特斯拉更美国化。他们中的很多人可能认为丰田比特斯拉更美国化。
A single company's lead is not industry leading -days how us lost most car industry leads to Japan. The progress Chinese manufacturers are making, and the govt support for it in China is better than US. The battery tech in China is moving rapidly, with them leading most of the manufacturing for a lot of components. It is currently the biggest EV market, the companies there know how to optimize for low cost electronics backed hardware better than most legacy car manufacturers. It's not about being the market leader as much as it is about gains in the market. Tesla has a large early mover advantage, but we don't have any other charging networks that are any good yet besides Tesla, we don't have existing car manufacturers yet that have fully innovated to the EV segment well - look at how well VW is doing
一家公司的领先优势并不代表行业领先——想想过去我们是如何将大部分汽车行业的领先优势输给日本的。中国制造商正在取得进步，以及中国政府对其的支持比美国更好。中国的电池技术正在迅速发展，他们在很多部件的制造方面处于领先地位。它是目前最大的电动汽车市场，那里的公司比大多数传统汽车制造商更了解如何优化低成本电子支持的硬件。这不是关于成为市场领导者，而是关于在市场上的收益。特斯拉拥有巨大的先发优势，但除了特斯拉之外，我们还铺好充电网络，我们还没有现有的汽车制造商对电动汽车领域进行全面创新——看看大众汽车做得多好
In the European market, all cars can use all chargers, including Tesla. And the infrastructure is getting quite good. Where I am, you can't throw a rock without hitting a charging stations, and quite a few companies rival Tesla both when it comes to avilability and charging speed - Take Circle-K's chargers, for example, which you can find at almost all of their gas stations and offer 300kW charging.
So at least when it comes to the European market, charging network isn't such a big factor.
We're also being flooded with Chinese electric cars. Feels like there's one coming to market every week.
And yet, Tesla has such a huge market share that the Chinese pales in comparison. They're just not selling that much. They will probably do better in the Asian market, but so far Europe isn't so keen on them.
When it comes to battery technology, yes, the Chinese are ahead. But it takes more than batteries to build a car that the Western market wants.
在欧洲市场，所有汽车都可以使用所有的充电器，包括特斯拉。而且基础设施也越来越好。在我所在的地方，你随便扔一块石头都能砸到充电站，而且不少公司在可用性和充电速度方面都能与特斯拉相媲美--以Circle-K的充电器为例，你几乎可以在他们所有的加油站找到，并提供300千瓦的充电。
因此，至少在欧洲市场上，充电网络并不是一个多大的因素。
我们也被中国的电动汽车所淹没。感觉每周都会有一辆进入市场。
然而，特斯拉拥有如此巨大的市场份额，与之相比，中国人的就显得相形见绌。他们没有卖出那么多。他们在亚洲市场可能会做得更好，但迄今为止，欧洲对他们并不热衷。
是的，在电池技术方面，中国人处于领先地位。但要制造出西方市场想要的汽车，需要的不仅仅是电池。
I just traveled to little countries in Europe and it's amazing how so many side walks across many countries have chargers. I think the issue is that us companies have so far not had the support for to oil and Toyota lobbying that has left us behind by a lot. Tesla might be far ahead of everyone, but that's not all us. Especially not when the Ceo himself had praised China for is progress. As for EU, time will tell, but at least EU had some companies and gifted backing the right direction. US is (very) late to this party.
我刚刚去了欧洲的一些小国家，令人惊讶的是，许多国家的人行道上都有充电器。我认为问题在于，美国公司到目前为止还没有得到石油和丰田游说的支持，这让我们落后了很多。特斯拉可能远远领先于所有人，但这并不是我们的全部。尤其是当首席执行官本人称赞中国的进步时。至于欧盟，时间会证明一切，但至少欧盟有一些公司和有天赋的人在支持正确的方向。美国在这个聚会上迟到了。
Chinese offerings in the luxury segment in the Netherlands (Europe) seem to beat the Germans as well. I ordered a Chinese EV here (Xpeng G9). A no-brainer compared to Audi Q8, BMW IX or Mercedes EQE/S SUV. It's €30.000 - €60.000 cheaper at least and technologically superior.
中国在荷兰（欧洲）奢侈品市场的产品似乎也击败了德国。我在这里订购了一辆中国电动汽车（小鹏G9）。与奥迪 Q8、宝马 IX 或梅赛德斯 EQE/S SUV 相比，这是一个显而易见的选择。它至少便宜 30000 - 60000 欧元，而且技术先进。
No CarPlay, sadly
遗憾的是没有 CarPlay
Dealer told me Xpeng is working on it after feedback from the European dealers. They're implementing a bunch of suggestions for the international version (like the heated steering wheel and ditching the perfume unit).
Gotta say though, the native software seemed really nice too during my testdrive.
经销商告诉我，根据欧洲经销商的反馈，小鹏汽车正在研究这个问题。他们正在为国际版本实施一系列建议（例如加热方向盘和放弃香水装置）。
但不得不说，在我的试驾过程中，软件本地化做得也非常好。
Tesla seems to have done a decent job up to now. It probably doesn’t help that Ford management (and likely their strike-happy unxs) have had their collective heads up their asses about EVs. It also shows that Bill Ford doesn’t consider Tesla competition in this space despite selling the most EVs for a few years now.
That, and China doesn’t have to deal with people feeling the move to EVs as an attack on their personal freedoms, or have to deal with big oil with massive lobbying efforts.
到目前为止，特斯拉似乎做得还不错。福特管理层（可能还有他们乐于罢工的工会）集体对电动汽车保持警惕，这对于改善情况可能无济于事。这也表明，比尔·福特并不认为特斯拉在这个领域存在竞争，尽管几年来销售了最多的电动汽车。
而且，中国不必处理人们认为转向电动车是对其个人自由的攻击，也不必处理有大量说客的大石油企业。
Totally…it happened in Europe too. All the mayor brands were late and beaten by S-Korea and China. Big Japan brands were till recently all in denial. All this doesn’t apply to Tesla, obviously
是的……这也发生在欧洲。所有主要品牌都发展晚了，被韩国和中国击败。日本的大品牌直到最近都还在否认这一点。当然，这一切不适用于特斯拉
European brands have increased their EV offering by a lot the last couple of years.
过去几年，欧洲品牌大幅增加了电动汽车的供应量。
Strikes have not yet been a relevant issue, though they could be in the future. The Ford unxs are not strike-happy
罢工还不是一个相关的问题，尽管在未来可能会成为问题。福特公司的工会也不是说喜欢罢工
Funny he would say that when the world’s biggest BEV maker is American and also sells really well in China.
但是世界上最大的纯电动汽车制造商是美国的，而且在中国也卖得很好。这句话要是从他嘴里说出来一定很有意思。
I said this years ago and I'll say it again today. EVs represent a paradigm shift for manufacturing.
You DO NOT have to be good at making a gas car to make a good EV. The supply chains aren't 100% the same and another company or country in this case can come in and eat your lunch if you don't want it.
It's a kodak moment for US / Euro / Japanese car makers. Who will make? I don't know....
我几年前就说过这句话，今天我还要说。电动车代表了制造业的范式转变。
你不必擅长制造汽油汽车才能制造好的电动车。两者的供应链不是100%相同的，在这种情况下，如果你不愿意进步，另一个公司或国家可以进来吃掉你的午餐。
对于美国/欧洲/日本的汽车制造商来说，这是一个柯达时刻。谁会成为下一个？我不知道....
It's slightly more complex than consumer electronics. Chinese government invested heavily, for decades, in ultra-high voltage electricity transmission, in its grid, to enable transmission of electricity further than 1000kms efficiently.
America has yet to build anything like that. Electricity transmission is the lix between electricity generation (Solar, nuclear, wind, coal etc), and electricity consumption (EV), and is probably ignored by most. But a very efficient grid is a must-have for large scale EV adoption.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/america-is-bad-at-building-power-lines-lets-fix-that-transmission-climate/619591/
Not too long ago, Texas had snow, and electricity grid shutdown caused many lives. EV is going to push the grid load beyond its limit now. It's less of an issue for smaller countries that are energy independent.
它比消费电子产品稍微复杂一些。几十年来，中国政府在电网特高压输电方面投入巨资，使电力传输距离有效超过1000公里。
美国还没有建立这样的东西。电力传输是发电（太阳能、核能、风能、煤炭等）和用电（EV）之间的纽带，可能被大多数人所忽视。但是一个非常高效的电网是大规模采用电动车的必备条件。
还记得德克萨斯州下雪，电网停电导致许多人死亡吗。电动汽车现在会把电网的负荷推到极限之外。对于能源独立的小国来说，这倒不是什么大问题。
Texas had problems because their natural gas lines froze because they weren't engineered for the kinds of more extreme weather that climate change brings.
德克萨斯州遇到了问题是因为他们的天然气管道被冻结，因为它们的设计不适合气候变化带来的更极端的天气。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
But being on their own grid meant that they couldn’t import more power from elsewhere. OTOH, it isolated the problem to Texas.
但使用自己的电网意味着他们无法从其他地方进口更多电力。另一方面，它也将问题留在了德克萨斯州。
I read a bit about it and it seems that China is operating it’s very high voltage DC lines because it has a unusual problem of a vast distance between production and consumption sites. I’m not sure the same problem exists in the US.
我读了一些关于它的文章，似乎中国正在运行非常高压的直流线路，因为它有一个不寻常的问题，即生产和消费地点之间的距离很远。我不确定美国是否也存在同样的问题。
It might be unusual two decades ago. But it is a general problem in the future for everyone. Basically, energy consumption will outpace energy generation. This requires energy generators to be placed further away from consumption centers (such as cities).
Today we rely on fuel trucks to deliver energy-dense fossil fuels to gas stations etc. In the future that energy is also delivered through the grid. The current grid won't work.
这在二十年前可能是不寻常的。但这是未来每个人的普遍问题。基本上，能源消耗将超过能源产生。这就要求将发电机放置在距离消费中心（例如城市）更远的地方。
今天，我们依靠燃料卡车将能源密集的化石燃料运送到加油站等。在未来，能源也将通过电网输送。但是目前的电网将无法承担。
IE we need government money
福特的意思是我们需要政府资金
“We can’t compete with… uhhh… China! Yeah that’s it! Can we get a govt hand out now?”
“我们无法与……呃……中国竞争！是的，就是这样！现在我们可以得到政府的援助了吗？”
I drive a Chinese EV in France (MG Marvel R), love it. China is 10 years ahead of European car makers today. It seems Europeans intend to catch up, so do Americans, but it won’t be easy.
我在法国驾驶一辆中国电动汽车（MG Marvel R），很喜欢它。如今，中国比欧洲汽车制造商领先10年。欧洲人似乎打算迎头赶上，美国人也是如此，但这并不容易。
How do you catch up when you have to pay unxized wages and consider pesky workers safety and rights compared to $1 an hour? Or how do you compete when if you want to access their market you have to share trade secrets, but they don’t have to do the same to access yours? It’s not like the Chinese know something about making cars that the Japanese, Koreans, Americans, and Germans don’t.
当你必须支付工会规定的工资并考虑烦人的工人安全和权利（与每小时 1 美元相比）时，你如何能赶上？或者，如果你想进入他们的市场，你必须分享商业秘密，但他们不必做同样的事情来进入你的市场，你又该如何竞争？中国人并不知道某些日本人、韩国人、美国人和德国人不知道的汽车制造知识。
Not to mention the heavy subsiding the Chinese government gives its industries, even half of the commenters criticize American and European brands for asking for the same thing.
更不用说中国政府给予产业的巨额补贴，这里还有一半的评论者在批评美国和欧洲品牌对政府提出同样的要求。
A thing you should know that technology leap like this reset the playing field. You do not need knowledge about ICEs. to make good evs. And Chin has invested much more and far longer than other countries on ev supply chain
你应该知道，像这样的技术飞跃重新设定了竞争领域。你不需要关于内燃机的知识就能制造出好的电动汽车。中国在电动汽车供应链上的投资比其他国家多得多、时间也长得多。
When he says "US", he means a capitalized version of "us" for emphasis. "Us Ford dweebs can't compete with Chinese EVs". Tesla competes well even in China's home turf.
当他说“美国（US）”时，他只是用大写来强调“我们（us）”。“我们福特汽车无法与中国电动汽车竞争”。然而即使在中国本土，特斯拉也在竞争中占据上风。
Tesla has under 10% of the EV market in China and, based on trends of the Chinese consumer, consumers are switching to homegrown brands across industries.
They’re competitive but Ford has equivalent EV market share in the US as Tesla does in China.
特斯拉在中国电动汽车市场的份额不到 10%，而且根据中国消费者的趋势，消费者正在转向各行业的本土品牌。
它们是有竞争力的，但福特在美国的电动汽车市场份额与特斯拉在中国的市场份额相当。
10% market share in china is very good. The german brands and other american brands besides buick are basically zero.
在中国10%的市场份额已经很不错了。德国品牌和除别克之外的其他美国品牌市场份额基本上是零。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
That's the classic volume vs revenue mirage. Ford might have more volume from selling ultra low end EVs, but their revenue pales compared to Tesla's. Guess who's in the better position?
China's EV makes will be juggernauts. Considering Tesla is on foreign turf, their market share is quite good there.
这是典型的销量与收入的幻觉。福特可能会通过销售超低端电动汽车获得更多销量，但他们的收入与特斯拉相比相形见绌。猜猜看谁的处境更好？
中国的电动汽车制造商将成为主宰者。考虑到特斯拉是在国外的地盘上，他们的市场份额已经相当不错了。
Headline rewrite: Ford chairman says Ford will go to the wall unless government rigs the market to stop America buying better Chinese made EVs.
建议将标题改为：福特董事长表示，除非政府操纵市场阻止美国购买更好的中国制造的电动汽车，否则福特将陷入困境。
It’s already rigged. What do you think the IRA bill set out to achieve? Made in China gets zero Federal EV credit, and suffers a 27.5% tariff.
它已经被操纵了。你以为关税法案的目的是什么？中国制造获得联邦电动汽车的补贴为零，还得承担27.5%的关税。
Lol that implies the Chinese government (which literally owns most of the car companies in the country) isn’t “rigging” the market.
哈哈，说得好像中国政府（实际上拥有该国大部分汽车公司）并没有“操纵”市场一样。
Exactly this. The whole point of the tariff and pulling incentives is to level the playing field. The Chinese government directly invests in and owns their auto industry. It’s completely asymmetric. Chinese vehicles in the US will continue to face an increasing uphill battle until foreign policy changes dramatically which I don’t see happening.
What’s shocking is the euros are willing to undercut their own auto industry so readily. I’m surprised to see it and wondering what’s going to happen to the legacy euro oems.
正是如此。关税和激励措施的全部意义在于创造公平的竞争环境。中国政府直接投资并拥有他们的汽车工业。这是完全不对称的。中国汽车在美国将继续面临日益艰难的战斗，直到外交政策发生重大变化，但我认为这不会发生。
令人震惊的是，欧盟愿意如此轻易地削弱自己的汽车工业。我很惊讶地看到这一点，并想知道传统的欧盟汽车制造商会发生什么。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
How dare they incentivize building more environmentally friendly EVs instead of ICE vehicles??
Maybe the US should've thought of this a decade ago.
And Tesla seems to be doing just fine. Maybe the problem is with the legacy US companies themselves.
你的意思是他们“竟敢”激励建造更环保的电动车而不是内燃机车？
也许美国早在十年前就应该想到这一点。
不过特斯拉做得蛮不错的。也许问题出在美国的传统公司本身。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处