红迪网:在过去的30年里，中国的工资大幅上涨，建设了世界一流的国家基础设施，在同样的时间跨度里，美国几乎全心投入到地球另一端那些毫无意义的战争中
Last 30 years China''''s wages rose greatly and it built a world class national infrastructure, drastically alleviated poverty in the same span of years US almost entirely on pointless wars halfway across the planet.
译文简介
在过去的30年里，中国的工资大幅上涨，建设了世界一流的国家基础设施，在同样的时间跨度里，美国几乎全心投入到地球另一端那些毫无意义的战争中。
正文翻译
这让人深思，美国的工资已经无法满足全国范围内高昂的生活成本。
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Last 30 years China''s wages rose greatly and it built a world class national infrastructure, drastically alleviated poverty in the same span of years US almost entirely on pointless wars halfway across the planet.
在过去的30年里，中国的工资大幅上涨，建设了世界一流的国家基础设施，在同样的时间跨度里，美国几乎全心投入到地球另一端那些毫无意义的战争中。
Chinese wealth inequality has been less than USA's since 2019. Been continuously declining since '08, while US inequality is on an upeards trajectory. Check that Gini coefficient
Within our lifetime, China will exceed the USA in every metric. Sadly, the USA would not let that happen and would likely engage in war to prevent it.
Death to Amerikka.
自2019年以来，中国的财富不平等程度一直低于美国。自2008年以来一直在下降，而美国的不平等程度却在上升——基尼系数
在我们有生之年，中国将在所有衡量标准上超过美国。可悲的是，美国不会让这种情况发生，而且很可能会发动战争来阻止它。
死去吧，美国
Nothing they can do except end the world. Either China wins or we all die. There are no alternatives.
除了毁灭世界，他们什么也做不了。要么中国赢，要么我们都死，没有其他选择。
Unfortunately, that is what I fear.
Maybe being a Yank influences it, but I can definitely see the USA bringing nuclear apocalypse as a final "hail merry."
很抱歉，我担心的正是这个。
也许作为美国人会影响我的看法，但我确实能够看到美国以核末日作为最后一招的可能性。
It's completely in line with what history has shown us and the routes taken by every social strata in America - from national - state - county - local - family, every facet and culture of exceptionalism and individualism in this country points to this type of mentality: "If I can't have it, nobody will."
这完全符合历史告诉我们的，也符合美国每一个社会阶层所采取的路线，从国家到州、县、地方、家庭，这个国家例外论和个人主义的每一个方面和文化都指向这种心态：“如果我不能拥有它，那么没有人能拥有。”
It's the reason why, although I don't think revolution or even radical change will occur in the US, I believe the first job of leftists here should be to try inhibit its imperial tendencies as much as possible, while also building enough support so that eventually when the country begins collapsing the left can throw what ever little weight it has to stop fanatics from bring about nuclear apocalypse.
I'm pessimistic, to say the least, but maybe just maybe, enough time will be bought before that threat is neutralized.
这就是为什么，尽管我不认为革命或甚至激进的变化会在美国发生，我相信这里的左派的首要工作应该是尽可能地抑制其帝国主义倾向，同时也建立足够的支持，以便最终当这个国家开始崩溃时，左派可以尽其所能阻止狂热分子带来核灾难。
退一步说，我很悲观，但也许只是也许，在威胁被消除之前会有足够的时间。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It’s either socialism or barbarism. We need to win or we all lose. Let’s get organizing!
要么是社会主义，要么是野蛮化。我们必须赢，否则我们都会输。让我们组织起来吧!
China punishes companies and individuals when they garner monopolistic influence (just this week two pharmaceutical companies were sued for 100+ million yuan for jacking up Epi Pen prices).
The US doesn’t take that stance; we reward selfishness, greed, and those that make the poor suffer. That’s why you get workers’ wages stagnating, whilst China succeeds in nearly every economic avenue when it comes to helping the common person.
We are a despicable nation, built on exploitation - past and present, and without a doubt, the future. Meanwhile, China has shed its once exploitative-ridden skin, turning a leaf to a new future filled with equality. US continues its barbaric, billionaire dick-sucking practices and China shows us up at every turn.
当企业和个人获得垄断影响时，中国会对其进行惩罚(就在本周，两家制药公司因哄抬 肾上腺素自动注射器价格而被起诉，起诉金额超过1亿元人民币)。
美国不采取这种立场;我们奖励自私、贪婪和那些使穷人受苦的人。这就是为什么工人工资停滞不前，而中国在帮助到普通人的时候几乎在所有经济领域都取得了成功。
我们是一个卑劣的国家，过去和现在都是建立在剥削的基础之上，毫无疑问，未来也会如此。与此同时，中国已经褪去了曾经被剥削缠身的外衣，翻开了崭新的一页，迎接一个充满平等的新未来。美国继续其野蛮的、狂舔亿万富翁臭脚的做法，而中国每时每刻都在向我们展示这一切。
It''s funny when US media harp on how China is all communist and that''s why it doesn''t have any billionaires.
Then they turn around and screech about Chinese billionaires allegedly "vanishing" and being persecuted by the communists because the Chinese government criminally persecutes some of the rich criminals.
搞笑的是美国媒体大肆宣传中国是全民GCZY制度，说这就是中国没有亿万富翁的原因。
然后他们转过身来，尖叫着说中国的亿万富翁正在“消失”，并受到....PH，因为中国对一些富有的罪犯进行OOXX。
I am just echoing bits and pieces of stuff I've absorbed, but I believe this has something to do with "the party" being at the top of the power structure there, which leaves room for decisions to be made on moral grounds rather than purely economic ones. The US system on the other hand is structured in such a way that decisions are made on the basis of profit above all else.
我只是在重复我吸收的一些零碎的东西，但我相信这与“党”在那里的权力结构中处于顶端有关，这给基于道德而不是纯粹的经济理由做出决定留下了空间。另一方面，美国体系的结构使决策以利润为基础，高于一切。
I am a bit doubtful about the wealth inequality part and I think it is likely getting worse and worse after the COVID.
The government has stopped publishing the Geni coefficient since 2019, and many people in China are also showing doubt about the Geni coefficient that the government published after a very famous Chinese university studied the actual Geni coefficient to be 0.61, much higher than the 0.45-0.48 that government published.
I think the CPC is working on solving the problem but it is far from done. Even the government officials have consistently expressed the concerns on income equality and wealth equality.
The good thing is that the government seems to care, but in the mean time there are still many works that need to be done
我对财富不平等的观点有些怀疑，我认为在新冠疫情之后这个问题可能越来越严重。
自2019年以来，政府已经停止公布基尼系数，中国的许多人也对政府公布的基尼系数表示怀疑，因为中国一所非常著名的大学研究了实际的基尼系数为0.61，远高于政府公布的0.45-0.48。
我认为中国正在努力解决这个问题，但还有很长的路要走。就连政府也一直对收入平等和财富平等方面的问题表示担忧。
但好消息是政府似乎很关心此事，但与此同时还有许多工作需要完成。
Sadly, the USA would not let that happen and would likely engage in war to prevent it.
They're certainly rattling sabers. But as Richard Wolfe has pointed out on more than one occasion, the trade deficit between the US and China is still growing. US Business Leadership isn't making any serious efforts to decouple from the Chinese labor market (even if they're flirting with India and the Oceanic island states as a means of diversification). If there was a real fear of war, I have to wonder whether we would be plowing even more money into Chinese mainland manufacturing.
Also, when you look at the US and its performance in Ukraine... All these wars do is destroy working capital. Nobody comes out ahead. Nobody benefits, outside the military shills selling ammo and vultures picking over the corpses.
遗憾的是，美国不会让这种情况发生，很可能会发动战争来阻止这种情况的发生。
他们当然是剑拔弩张。但正如理查德 沃尔夫(Richard Wolfe)不止一次指出的那样，中美之间的贸易逆差仍在扩大。美国商界领袖并没有认真努力与中国劳动力市场脱钩（即使他们正在考虑与印度和大洋洲岛国接触以实现多样化）。如果真的害怕战争，我想知道我们是否会向中国大陆的制造业投入更多的资金。
此外，看看美国和它在乌克兰的表现...所有这些战争只是摧毁运营资本。除了卖军火的军刀和啄食尸体的秃鹫，没有人会领先，没有人从中受益。
They do profit from war, though. Many NATO countries will renovate the arsenals they lended to Ukraine. Ukraine, in the other hand, will be in debt with the USA.
What you do need to understand, though, is that US riches won't go towards better public services. They will fund the next military operations.
不过，他们确实从战争中获利。许多北约国家将更新借给乌克兰的武器库。另一方面，乌克兰将欠美国的债。
不过，你需要明白的是，美国的财富不会用于改善公共服务，他们将为下一次军事行动提供资金。
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Wealth inequality is still higher in China than most of Western Europe last I looked at it. But maybe European wealth inequality is going up and China is going down.
Developing countries tend to have cities that are far ahead of the country side. Obviously it’s like that everywhere to some extent but the wealth gap between rural and urban is a lot more stark in developing countries from what I’ve understood. I’d be curious to see the wealth inequality by region.
The US is predominantly controlled by big business. So that possibility may depend on corporate Americas relationship with China. Both being nuclear powers I think also might make direct war less attractive. If there were no nuclear weapons and corporate America didn’t benefit from China then I’d agree that US starting a war would be inevitable.
在我看来，中国的财富不平等程度仍然高于大多数西欧国家。但或许欧洲的财富不平等正在加剧，而中国正在缩小。
发展中国家的城市往往远远领先于农村。显然，在某种程度上，各地都是如此，但据我所知，发展中国家城乡之间的贫富差距要明显得多。我很想看看不同地区的财富不平等程度。
美国主要由大企业控制，因此这种可能性可能取决于美国企业与中国的关系。由于两国都是核大国，直接开战可能变得不太具有吸引力。如果没有核武器，美国企业也没有从中国获益，那么我赞同“美国发动战争是不可避免的”这一观点。
I can see why you're being downvoted, but we really need sober analysis like this to balance idealism with reality as socialists. Thank you, genuinely.
我能理解为什么你的评论会被点踩，但我们社会主义者真的需要像这样冷静客观的分析来平衡理想主义和现实，真的很感谢你。
I actually didn’t intend it to be anti China. I more was pointing out china might only have a high wealth gap because of the rural vs urban divide that is present in all developing countries. Even though France has a smaller wealth gap than China maybe Paris has a larger wealth gap than Shang hai.
实际上，我并不是想反对中国。我更多的只是是指出“中国的贫富差距可能也很高”这一点，因为城乡差距在所有发展中国家都存在。尽管法国的贫富差距比中国小，但巴黎的贫富差距可能比上海大。
Oh, my apologies for assuming then!
Also I think the data's pretty telling.
哦，我为我的假设道歉！此外，我认为数据非常能说明问题。
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A lot of Chinese cities are ranked pretty low income inequality and the inequality is shrinking. So yeah I think China is only somewhat high income inequality as a nation because of the city vs rural divide. What surprises me is seeing Berlin has low income inequality list. I would have guessed it would be high from anecdotal experience but sometimes I forget how meaningless one persons experience can be.
Also a lot of formal socialist states (not Russia) seem to have low income inequality. Ive lived in Prague and despite being lower income than the US I think they have a better society. Its sort of amazing how high income the US is yet still manages to be shitty but I suppose thats off topic.
中国很多城市的收入不平等程度都很低，而且这种差距正在缩小。所以我认为中国之所以作为一个国家来看，收入不平等程度有点高，是因为城市与农村之间的差距。令我惊讶的是，柏林的收入不平等程度很低。从传闻的经验来看，我本来会认为它会很高，但有时我忘记了个人经验是多么的无意义。
此外，许多正式的社会主义国家（不包括俄罗斯）的收入不平等程度似乎很低。我住在布拉格（前捷克斯洛伐克首都；现捷克首都），尽管收入比美国低，但我认为他们的社会更好。令人惊奇的是，美国的收入如此之高，管理方面却这么糟糕，但我想这已经偏离主题了。
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The wealth gap between urban and rural is absolutely a huge issue in China right now.
目前，城乡贫富差距绝对是中国面临的重大问题。
It’s a problem in all developing countries. I’m American but live in Brazil, here the gap between S?o Paulo and a rural area is also massive. Brazil also in a way shows the competency of chinas central planning. Brazil’s economy hasn’t had consistent growth like the Chinese economy. It’s my understanding life was actually better in Brazil a decade ago
这也是所有发展中国家都面临的问题。我是美国人，但住在巴西，这里圣保罗和农村地区之间的差距也很大。从某种意义上讲，巴西也在某种程度上展示了中国中央计划经济的能力，巴西的经济没有像中国经济一样持续增长。
据我所知，十年前巴西的生活其实更好。
Developing countries tend to have cities that are far ahead of the country side.
I think that's pretty universal and not in any way special to developing countries.
发展中国家的城市往往远远领先于农村。
我认为这是非常普遍的，而不是发展中国家所特有的。
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I think it’s universal but I think the gap is larger in developing countries.
我认为这是普遍现象，但我认为发展中国家的差距更大。
The future is Chinese. Every effort contributing to future human prospects and effort will be done done by China - the rest of the world is not able to, in any realistic way, match the Chinese nation . China has curated the the perfect political system constantly reiterating and developing solutions to problems in the instant they occur.
未来是属于中国的。所有有助于未来人类前景和成就的举措都将由中国完成，从任何现实的角度来看，世界上其他国家都无法与中华民族相提并论。中国已经打造出了完美的政治制度，不断提出和发展解决问题的办法。
the Transgender Communist your grandfather is afraid of Actually I'd rather turn America into socialist country since it's pretty much the only thing holding up capitalism at the moment
事实上，我宁愿把美国变成社会主义国家，因为这几乎是目前唯一阻碍资本主义的东西。
for now vietnam has a good relationship with america akin to 90s china but the 2nd it's econmic tragetcory starts outpacing amerikkka I can bet you they'll become the next orientalist boogey man within the amerikkkan war machine and rabid foaming at the mouth reddit libs
目前越南与美国的关系很好，类似于90年代的中国，但一旦其经济增长超过美国，我敢打赌，越南将成为美国战争机器和红迪网喷子中下一个东方鬼怪。
Love to see Vietnam here too
也很想在这里看到谈论越南的事情
Yep, they are doing well too
是的，他们也表现得很不错
Uncle Ho my beloved
胡志明叔叔 我爱你
what happened to malaysia?
马来西亚发生了什么？
I was a bit skeptical about this when I saw it was from the Economist. But I would have thought that they would be biased against China. But I was confusing the Economist with Business Insider which would totally lie to make China look bad.
当我看到《经济学人》上的这篇文章时，我有点怀疑。但我本以为他们会对中国有偏见。但我把《经济学人》和《商业内幕》搞混了，后者完全是在撒谎，让中国看起来很糟糕。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
the economist will absolutely lie to make China look bad. But they have to at least feign obxtivity.
经济学家绝对会撒谎，让中国看起来很糟糕，但他们至少要假装客观。
That is a good way of phrasing it, thanks.
这是一个很好的表达方式，谢谢。
Meanwhile, wages here in the states can’t meet the high cost of living nationwide anymore.
Makes you think.
与此同时，这让人深思，美国的工资已经无法满足全国范围内高昂的生活成本。
You can see the capitalism machine really try nearly everything to skirt around higher wages, unxs, etc.
Recent fed report shows a significant increase in part time job postings. Seems like most places are attempting to skirt the requirement of medical coverage and other full time employment benefits by shoe horning potential employees into pseudo part time positions.
A great example is McDonald’s celebrating their “$16/hr” start wage, until you look at the fine print and realize it’s for part time positions at odd hours of the week.
Not to mention all the “gig work” that’s flooded the job market. Interesting that it’s omitted from the fed report.
你可以看到资本主义系统真的会尽可能地避开更高的工资、组织工会等事项。
美联储最近的一份报告显示，兼职工作岗位大幅增加。似乎大多数地方都在试图通过把潜在员工塞进伪兼职岗位，来避开医疗保险和其他全职工作福利的要求。
有个很好的例子是麦当劳庆祝他们“16美元/小时”的起薪，但是直到你看到细则并意识到这只针对每周奇数时间的兼职职位，才会了解真相。
更不用说那些充斥着就业市场的“零工”了。有趣的是，美联储的报告中省略了这一点。
It’s amazing hearing my fellow Americans talk about China’s growth as being somehow massively unequal… without acknowledging that Chinese wealth distribution is more equal than the US
听到我的美国同胞谈论中国的增长在某种程度上是巨大的不平等，却没有承认中国的财富分配比美国更平等，这真是令人惊讶。
Interesting that places that don't subscribe to neoliberal policies as demanded by organizations like the IMF/World Bank, those separate from western institutions tend to actually do well. Almost like the goal of western nations is success at everyone else's expense (see most of latin America, both those under intense sanction and those taking unpayable loans from these such orgs) and the weaponization of finance and structures of power to do so. Really, a form of world domination
有趣的是，那些不赞同像国际货币基金组织/世界银行这样的组织所要求的新自由主义政策的地方，那些与西方机构分开的地方往往表现良好。几乎就像西方国家的目标是以牺牲他人为代价取得成功（见大多数拉丁美洲国家，包括那些受到严厉制裁和那些接受这些组织无法偿还的贷款的国家），并将金融和权力结构武器化来实现这一目标。实际上，这是一种统治世界的形式。
CHINA NUMBAH ONE
中国第一
It's important to remember the kind of manufacturing going on in these countries when looking at labor costs and wages. If I understand it correctly this graph more or less shows China going from low/light manufacturing like textiles and plastics to mid/heavy level and high tech manufacturing like cars, machinery, electronics, etc. But, still an impressive graph with how rapid the transition to an advanced economy and a good indicator that the Chinese government is doing something right.
Interestingly, this graph takes off right around the time when american manufacturing completely shit the bed to never return.
But I don't blame the Chinese for ruining manufacturing in the US, even though the collapse of industry in the midwest destroyed communities in the region I'm from. Manufacturing in the US was already dying from Reaganomics, competition from Japan/Germany/South Korea and unxs pushing wages to globally noncompetitive levels.
在考虑劳动力成本和工资时，重要的是记住这些国家进行的制造业类型。如果我理解正确的话，这张图表或多或少显示了中国从纺织和塑料等低/轻制造业向汽车、机械、电子等中/重制造业和高科技制造业的转变。但是，这仍然是一张令人印象深刻的图表，展示了中国迅速转型为先进经济体的过程，并且是中国政府正在做一些正确的事情的一个良好指标。
有趣的是，这张图表的起飞时间正好是美国制造业彻底完蛋的时候。
但是，我不会责怪中国破坏了美国的制造业，尽管中西部工业的崩溃摧毁了我所在地区的社区。美国的制造业已经在里根经济学、来自日本/德国/韩国的竞争和工会将工资推向全球非竞争水平的影响下，已经在死亡。
If you haven’t, you should check out the “documentary” on Netflix (or pirate sites) called “American Factory”.
There’s a lot of factories being bought up from Chinese companies in the Midwest. The video mostly focused on the culture differences but what I took from it is China recognizes the truth that automation is what’s driving manufacturing now and into the future, whereas America seems to keep pushing this narrative that “hard work and dedication” makes the product better, which I assume is the die hard propaganda of exploitive marketing.
I found it interesting overall, I think it’s worth a watch if nothing else.
如果你还没有看过Netflix （或盗版网站）上名为“美国工厂”的“纪录片”，你应该去看一下。
中西部有很多工厂被中国公司收购。视频主要集中在文化差异上，但我从中得到的是，中国认识到自动化是现在和未来制造业的驱动力，而美国似乎一直在推动这种“努力工作和奉献”使产品更好的叙事，我认为这是剥削性营销的顽固宣传。
总的来说，我觉得它很有趣，我认为它值得一看。
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I actually just watched that last night, was very interesting. I expecting it to be another "China bad" hitpiece but it was actually somewhat balanced. I thought they were basically being charitable setting up shop in Ohio, but I imagine there are a lot of economic reasons why they might need a factory out there in order to be closer to suppliers and markets in north america.
But the automation they were using was absolutely the right move. Labor unxs in the US (such as UAW) effectively killed industry here, so making sure it doesn't happen again is critical for operational success. And I don't think the problem with the americans working there was that they were fed "hard work and dedication" propaganda, it was that they were spoiled from decades of high paying unx labor and because unxs in the US are intentionally intrusive. Give it a generation or two and Americans will be happy to work for 14 bucks an hour at a factory instead of 8 bucks an hour at dollar tree.
我昨晚才看的，很有意思。我本来以为这只是又一部“中国坏”的攻击性报道，但实际上还算比较客观。我以为他们基本上是在俄亥俄州做慈善，但我想，出于很多经济原因，他们可能需要在那里建一家工厂，以便更接近北美的供应商和市场。
他们使用的自动化绝对是正确的选择。美国工会（如美国汽车工人联盟（UAW））实际上扼杀了这里的工业，因此，确保这种情况不再发生对运营成功至关重要。而且我不认为在那里工作的美国人的问题是他们被灌输了“努力工作和奉献”的宣传，而是他们被工会弄的几十年的高薪宠坏了，这也是因为美国的工会故意干涉造成的局面。再过一两代人，美国人就会很乐意在工厂里以每小时14美元的工资工作，而不是以每小时8美元的工资工作。
Lol vietnam and China have the only rising salaries on the list, the others are either stagnant or growing less than inflation
哈哈，名单上只有越南和中国的工资在上涨，其他国家要么停滞不前，要么增长低于通胀
You know so little about China ......
你对中国的了解太少了，你甚至不知道这是对维****(造谣抹黑)，是中国的一个特定民族，也是构成中国穆斯林人口的10个民族之一。
Vietnam is second lol
越南是第二，哈哈
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I'm sad Vietnam isn't going up either. Didn't they copy china's indirect state capitalist model? Why aren't they going up? Can someone explain what Vietnam is doing differently?
我很难过——越南没有持续上升。难道他们没有复制中国的间接国家资本主义模式吗?为什么不涨呢?有人能解释一下越南的做法有什么不同吗?
Vietnam is much harder to develop thanks to its geography.
由于其地理位置，越南的发展要困难得多。
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What happened in India in the late 90s?
90年代末印度发生了什么?
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Also the US's life expectancy is plummeting, largely thanks to uncontrolled COVID spread, inequality and deaths of despair. China now has a longer life expectancy and I'd expect that trend to stay
此外，美国人的预期寿命正在下降，这在很大程度上要归功于不受控制的新冠疫情蔓延、不平等和绝望导致的死亡。中国现在的预期寿命更长了，我预计这种趋势会持续下去
Let us not forget our comrades in Vietnam as well. They are trending the correct direction.
我们也不要忘记我们在越南的战友，他们正朝着正确的方向前进。
Say what you will shout whether or not they’re “actually socialist”, they certainly are doing their economy different from liberal nations.
Hopefully they build a foundation that sets the stage for socialism, as opposed to building something that prevents it.
不管他们是不是“真正的社会主义者”，随你怎么喊，他们的经济确实与自由主义国家不同。
希望他们能够为社会主义奠定基础，而不是建立一些东西来防止它。