欧盟圈讨论：在欧洲各国，举国讨厌首都的情况有多普遍？
How common is national hatred for the capital city?
译文简介
在华沙，新来的人被称为“słoiki”，意思是“罐子”，这个笑话的点是：他们每周一抵达华沙的时候都会自带一组新的、装进玻璃罐里的自制食物。
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I have yet to visit a country where it isn't similar.
I think it's easily explained, at least for Austria.
It's the only city that deserves being called a city, so the culture is quite different compared to anywhere else. People are perceived less friendly, more distant, more snobby. That's just how cities are, if you come from a rural environment like I did when I moved here. Easy to believe everyone is an asshole, if you're not used to it.
It's also quite far in the east, so for anyone in the west it's this weird far away place that for some reason has power over them.
（奥地利）我造访过的国家里，还没有不是这样的。
我认为这很容易解释，至少对奥地利来说是这样。
维也纳是（我国）唯一一个有资格被称为城市的，所以和其他任何地方相比，这里的文化是截然不同的。人们被认为不那么友好，更冷淡，更势利。如果你像我一样出身农村然后搬到了这里，就会觉得城市就这德性。如果你无法习惯它，就很容易相信每个人都是混蛋。
这里的方位也很靠东，所以对西部人来说，这就是个古怪而遥远的地方，却出于某种原因，能支配他们。
In general, I do not percei ve a great hatred towards Rome, it may be that Italy is accustomed to a traditional polycentrism, whereby, several centres are regional poles of attraction, so that, in general, they can become the obxt of dislikes or sympathies. For example, I live in the North, in a medium-sized city, and some see Milan as a lively, avant-garde and open city and feel a certain admiration, others, see it as a neurotic city and despise certain attitudes associated with the Milanese and conversely extol a less 'urban' lifestyle. Perhaps those who live in the centre have a similar opinion of Rome, but speeches openly against it I have usually only heard from regionalists who see it as a symbol of corruption and scandals associated with politics.
（意）总的来说，我并没有察觉到人们对罗马有多大的仇恨，这可能是因为意大利习惯于传统的多中心主义，即有若干个中心，均为散发吸引力的区域性磁极，所以一般而言，它们可能会成为人们不喜欢或同情的对象。例如，我住在北方一个中等规模的城市，有些人会把米兰看成一个充满生气、前卫和开放的城市，并感到某种钦羡，另一些人则把它看成一个神经兮兮的城市，并鄙视和米兰人有关的某些态度，反而去赞美一种不那么“城市”的生活方式。也许那些住在中心的人对罗马也有类似的看法，但公开反对罗马的言论，我通常只会从地方主义者那里听到，他们把罗马看成了腐败和涉政丑闻的象征。
（回，意）意大利的情况不同，人们通常都以正面的视角看待罗马，不会对来自罗马的人抱持与罗马有关的不好的刻板印象。反而是米兰，普遍很招人厌。
Quite common in Romania, as it is quite a centralized country and until recently 90% of well paid jobs were only in the capital, Bucharest. The attitude of some of the inhabitants of the city doesn't really help, arrogance towards people with different accents is common and they are often ridiculed and scammed by taxi drivers for example.
（罗马尼亚）这种现象在罗马尼亚相当普遍，因为它是一个相当集中化的国家，直到最近，90%的高薪工作都只存在于首都布加勒斯特。该城一部分居民的态度也多多少少起了一些坏作用，对口音不同的人态度傲慢是很常见的，比如说，他们经常被出租车司机嘲笑、诓骗。
这种情况也发生在其他大城市，比如克卢日和蒂米什瓦拉，他们甚至为新来者起了个名字，“vinituri”，可以翻译为“到达者”。具有讽刺意味的是，最激进地反对“到达者”的人群往往是去年的“到达者”。
（回，波）在华沙，新来的人被称为“słoiki”，意思是“罐子”，这个笑话的点是：他们每周一抵达华沙的时候都会自带一组新的、装进玻璃罐里的自制食物。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I think what sets Amsterdam apart from other national capitals is that absolutely no ruling whatsoever is done there. All the ruling is done in The Hague, leaving Amsterdam as a huge tourist trap and the playground of the rich and pretentious.
我认为阿姆斯特丹与其他国家首都的不同之处在于，无论那里做了什么事，都完全不包括统治。所有的裁决都在海牙完成，这就让阿姆斯特丹变成了一个巨大的旅游陷阱，成了有钱人和装逼犯的游乐场。
Yes
Well hate is a stong word, and the relationship with Stockholm is similar to that of Norway, we like to make jokes about them and portray the people from there in less than favourable ways
And more seriously we also think that the capitalites are quite out of touch, especially all the politicians, rich folks and influencers with seagull level IQ, as well as the average stockholmer who also acts snobby and knows and cares about nothing outside the congestion zone.
We like the city, mostly, you quite often see people on sweddit talk about the fact that our capital is quite a beautiful city, but what we dont like is the people
（瑞典）是的。
好吧，仇恨是个很严重的词，我们与斯德哥尔摩的关系就类似于我们与挪威的关系，我们喜欢开他们的玩笑，还会以不太讨喜的方式描述那里的人。而更严肃的是，我们也认为资本家们很孤陋寡闻，尤其是所有的政客、富人和有影响力的人，他们的智商只有海鸥的水平，还有就是斯德哥尔摩老百姓，他们也表现得很势利，对拥堵区以外的事物一无所知，也毫不关心。
我们是喜欢这个城市的，大部分人都是喜欢的，你经常能看到人们sweddit上谈到我们的首都，说它其实是一个相当漂亮的城市，但我们不喜欢的是那里的人。
"hatred" is a hard word, i would say a definitely dislike, yes. Specially from people from the second biggest city. Also fuelled by football rivalry. The most common arguments to justify the dislike are that the national organization of services and political decisions are too centralized (Lisbon is in the center region of the country) and because of that the balance of funds is tilted to Lisbon.
I guess this normal in many European countries
（葡）“憎恨”言重了，我觉得不喜欢肯定还是存在的。特别是来自第二大城市的人。足球队间的较劲也会助长这种情绪。而正当化这种讨厌的最常见理由是，国家的服务组织和政治决策过于集中（里斯本位于我国的中心区域），也因为资金的平衡会向里斯本倾斜。
我猜这在很多欧洲国家都是正常现象。
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（回，葡）好吧，俗话说“葡萄牙就是里斯本，其他地方只是风景”，我确实碰到过真这么想的人。
It is very common. People from other regions perceive Madrilenians as snobs, "chulos", etc.
Also there is the "Barcelona-Madrid kinda war" and a lot of peripherical nationalists just hate Madrid for what it represents (being the capital of the country they want to seccede from).
But a lot of people also say that Madrid is one of the most welcoming cities they have been to, so of course different people different opinions.
（西）这很普遍。在其他地区的人眼里，马德里人是势利小人，称他们为“chulos（自负的家伙）”什么的。
此外，还有“巴塞罗那和马德里的暗战”，很多边缘的民族主义者一根筋地讨厌马德里，就因为它所代表的东西，即他们想脱离之国的首都。
但很多人也说，马德里是他们去过的最热情好客的城市之一，所以当然了，不同的人有不同的看法。
（回，西）虽然我讨厌马德里是因为其他原因，但我从来没感觉到马德里的马德里人是傲慢的。只是他们一来到阿斯图里亚斯地区（西班牙北部的自治区），就表现得像自恋、自以为是的混球。我们以前还经常开这样的玩笑，说马德里把所有混蛋都踢出去了，然后把他们送到了我国的其他地方。
It's very common but it's more despise than actual hatred. Also France is very centralised, most of big companies, institution headquarters and studios are located in Paris, therefore most of opportunities are in Paris but it's also a very expensive city so very few people manage to "climb" to Paris professionally, so to say.
It has also a specific culture that feels disconnected from the rest of the country so the despise, that goes both way, is legit
（法）这个现象很常见，但更多是鄙视，而不是真正的憎恨。此外，法国是非常集中化的，大部分大公司、机构总部和工作室都位于巴黎，因此大部分机会都在巴黎，但它也是一个生活成本很高的城市，这么说吧，能在职场上成功“爬”到巴黎的人少之又少。
那里也有一种独特的文化，感觉上和我国其他地方是脱节的，所以这种双向鄙视也算合理。
i made a comment that it is more so the people that live there, rather than the actual place itself. Edinburgh and London are both beautiful cities. It's just the people that live there are annoying. And the same is probably true for Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Brussels, Amsterdam etc.
（英格兰）我曾发表过评论，说这更多是讨厌生活在那里的人，而不是讨厌那地方本身。爱丁堡和伦敦都是很美丽的城市。只是住在那里的人很烦人。巴黎、柏林、马德里、布鲁塞尔、阿姆斯特丹等也是如此。
I do dislike Lisbon. The people not really, even if some are a bit snob. The city simply represents all the centralism that the country has suffer in the past centuries. Everything is focus in Lisbon and all happens there. The opportunities, jobs, entertainment, the media, politics, etc, all is concentrated in Lisbon.
我是真不喜欢里斯本。说讨厌这里的人也谈不上，尽管有些人有点势利眼。这座城市无非是代表了这个国家在过去几个世纪中遭受的那些中央集权主义。一切焦点都汇集在里斯本，所有事情都发生在那里。机会、工作、娱乐、媒体、政治等等，全都集中在里斯本。
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Such that I chose to move abroad for better job opportunities than to move to Lisbon.
我认为这是对国家发展的一大限制。因此，我不喜欢里斯本及其中央集权。
也是因为这个原因，我没有搬到里斯本，而是选择搬到国外以获得更好的工作机会。
Moscow is not Russia. Hatred for muscovites is absolutely common for all the Russia. Unfortunately, our country is ver-very-very overcentralized, so Moscow is absolutely anomaly in all of economic and social indicators. If you have visited Moscow, you have NOT visited Russia. Please welcome, for example, in Rubtsovsk or Asbest.
（俄）莫斯科不是俄罗斯。对莫斯科人的憎恨在俄罗斯全境都是极为普遍的。不幸的是，我们国家的集中化程度极高，所以在所有的经济和社会指标上，莫斯科绝对是一个很异常的存在。如果你去过莫斯科，那你就没去过俄罗斯。欢迎各位去比如说鲁布佐夫斯克或阿斯贝斯特。
I don't hold Brussels in high regard. It's not so much the people that live there as it is the aesthetic and general "feel" of the city. The feeling I have when in Brussels, I can only describe as 'uneasiness'.
（比）我对布鲁塞尔的评价并不高。对于住在那里的人也谈不上有什么恶感，我针对的是这个城市的审美和给人的总体“感觉”。我身处布鲁塞尔时的那种感觉，只能用“不自在”来形容。
感觉这座城市的很多区域都很肮脏，而且乱糟糟的，基础设施老化，这一点显而易见，建筑物很脏，上面布满了涂鸦，每两辆汽车就有一辆有凹痕...我还可以列举很多。你可以打开谷歌街景，去看看“内环线”以外的几乎任何一条随机的街道，就能明白我的意思。内环以内和靠近旅游中心的地方，情况会稍好一些，但也没好多少。
As soon as you travel to parts outside of the capital there’ll be hate against it. The more far and rural you travel, the more hate.
（挪）一旦你去到首都以外的地方，就会产生对它的憎恨。你走得越远，越靠近乡村，这种憎恨就越深重。
We in Italy like to pick on rome for their atac problems, for their metro not working properly, for their trash problem and for their boar problem (yeah boar, not rats, FUCKING BOARS) but we actually mostly love Rome and the Romans. Well, most of them. Lots of fascists in rome, they we fucking hate
（意）我们意大利人喜欢找罗马的茬，因为他们的ATAC（意大利国营公共交通公司）出了各种问题，因为他们的地铁不能正常运转，因为他们的垃圾问题，因为他们的野猪问题（是的，是野猪，不是老鼠，是TMD野猪），但事实上，我们大都喜欢罗马和罗马人。好吧，是罗马人中的大部分。在罗马有很多法西斯分子，这些人我们可讨厌了。
The only people that hate Rome are usually old style Lega supporters.
In general in my experience people love Rome.
（意）唯一讨厌罗马的人群通常都是老派的Lega支持者。
以我的经验，人们一般都很喜欢罗马。
（译注：Lega即北方帕达尼亚独立联盟，是一个右翼、联邦主义、民粹主义和保守派政党）
The people of Milan also have the stereotypes of being cold, unfriendly, etc not only because they are Milanese, but because us Northeners is generally portrayed as less warm and friendly than the people from the South (roughly anything from Rome south ward).
通常情况下，你看到的那种对首都和住在那里的势利眼的厌恶是针对米兰的，虽然它不是首都，但它是证券交易所的所在地，是该国最富有地区最大的城市，也是一些媒体公司、时装公司、跨国公司的总部所在地。
对米兰人也有冷漠、不友好等刻板印象，不仅因为他们是米兰人，而是因为我们东北部人通常被描绘成不如南方（大约就是罗马以南的任何地区）人那么热情、友好。
I think this is the same in most countries. I don’t hate our capital, Amsterdam. I do think it is a whole different world and doesn’t represent The Netherlands at all. Like all capitals the inhabitants tend to be a bit arrogant. Personally I think it’s an ugly and boring city.
（荷）我认为大部分国家都存在同样的情况。我并不讨厌我们的首都阿姆斯特丹。但我真心认为那里是一个完全不同的世界，也根本无法代表荷兰。像所有首都一样，居民们往往有点傲慢。我个人认为这是一个丑陋、乏味的城市。
Edinburgh gets a bit of a slagging for supposedly being posh and not really Scottish, but the bigger issue is probably Glaswegians assuming that Glasgow = Scotland and not really getting that the rest of the country is different.
（苏格兰）爱丁堡因为所谓的“上流范儿”和“不算真正的苏格兰人”而被人骂，但更大的问题可能是格拉斯哥人认为格拉斯哥就等于苏格兰，而没有真正理解这个国家的其他地区是不同的。
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（回，苏格兰）总有格拉斯哥人认为存在某种“较劲”。与此同时，在爱丁堡，没人关心这个问题呵呵。
I'm from London. People hate us cause apparently we're rude, have loads of money, the government give us everything and we're just over crowded idiots. I don't really care to be honest. Most have never lived here, visited or even done anything to do with London but that's how it is
At least if I slate a place, I can say it's cause I've visited. Don't like Birmingham but I love Manchester. Apples and oranges.
（英）我来自伦敦。人们讨厌我们，因为很显然我们很粗鲁，超级有钱，政府把一切都给了我们，我们不过是一群拥挤过度的白痴。说实话，我并不太关心这些。大多数人从来没有在这里生活过，也没有造访过这里，甚至没有做过任何与伦敦有关的事情，情况就是这样。
至少，如果我要抨击某个地方，我可以说那是因为我造访过。我不喜欢伯明翰，但我喜欢曼彻斯特。根本无法比较。
（回，苏格兰）大约95%的英国人都去过伦敦，所以估计大部分不喜欢伦敦的人都去过那里。
（回，英）根据我的经验，我认为“伦敦人很粗鲁”这种观念是基于以下几点：
1）大部分说这种话的人往往是为旅游而来伦敦的。在那些大的旅游景点，绝大部分都是游客，而不是伦敦人，其中一些人可能一句英语都不会说。如果你不能用这门语言来交流，那么这往往会被一些人理解为粗鲁。
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2）伦敦市中心压力太大也太繁忙了，这一点会影响到人们，同样作为游客，你会在伦敦市中心的工人中左躲右闪，这些人每天都得忍受拥挤的公共交通，当挤在让人汗流浃背的地铁车厢里时，谁又能真的去责怪人们不礼貌呢？他们每天都不得不这样。随处可见的常态化的紧迫感也让人们变得匆忙，不那么愿意闲聊。
3）在一个地方拥有如此多的文化，就意味着人们对个人空间、适当的人际交往方式和社交礼节有不同的想法。
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As a Southerner who's lived in the North East for a bit there's definitely a difference, but I think "unforgiving at times" is a better way of describing London than "rude".
基本上，我很确信这些观念是基于伦敦市中心的经验。我离第一区越远，与伦敦人打交道的经历就逐渐变得与英国其他很多地方相似了。
作为一个在东北地区生活过一段时间的南方人，我会说绝对是存在区别的，但我认为用“偶尔会不宽容”来形容伦敦，要比用“粗鲁”好。