QA历史学家驳斥谬论：”为什么人们会认为在亚洲中国拥有最长的历史？科学证据显示其他国家更加古老。“
Why do so many people think the young China has a longest history in Asia? Scientific facts reveal other countries are much more mature.
译文简介
国外的学术界其实还是比较认可我国的考古成果的，但国外媒体嘛……
正文翻译
题主给出的信息来源是：
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/oldest-countries
Noel Leong
The lix shows a list, in chronological order from oldest onward, of countries where an organized form of government governing a fixed boundary existed. It’s not a list about how long the history of a civilization.
It’s generally accepted in academic circle that the oldest human civilization is the Sumerian civilization in Mesopotamia, along the Euphrates River Delta,which is the region of modern day’s Iran-Iraq. After the Sumerian, came the three other oldest civilizations: the Indus River Delta (India), Nile River Delta (Egypt) and Yellow-Yang Tze Rivers Delta (China).
No one stated China has the oldest history in Asia; what stated is the Chinese civilization is the longest continuous civilization, not only of Asia but of the world. Reason : modern days’ Iran and Iraq had very little connection to the Sumerian civilization, modern India has very little to do with the ancient Indus civilization and modern Egypt has nothing to do with the ancient Egyptian civilization. However, modern Chinese civilization : from language, writing and culture has a traceable connection to ancient Chinese civilization. A modern Chinese who know Chinese characters is able to read text written 3000–4000 years ago without special training. Ancient Sumerian, Egyptian and Hindu texts are mystery to the modern inhabitant of these places without special training.
你发的链接里显示了一个从最古老的国家开始按时间顺序排列的列表，一个有组织性政府管理的边界固定的国家。它并不是一个关于一个文明历史有多古老的列表。
学术界普遍接受美索不达米亚的苏美尔文明是最古老的人类文明，沿着幼发拉底河三角洲，也就是现在的伊朗-伊拉克地区。在苏美尔人之后又有了另外三个最古老的文明印度河三角洲（印度），尼罗河三角洲（埃及）黄河-长江三角洲（中国）。
没有人说中国拥有亚洲最古老的历史；中国文明是持续时间最长的文明，不止是在亚洲文明中，而且是在世界文明之中。
理由：现代的伊朗和伊拉克与苏美尔文明几乎没有关系，现代印度与古印度河文明几乎没有关系，现代埃及与古埃及文明一点关系都没有。然而，近代中华文明：从语言、写作和文化上都与中国古代文明有着可追溯的联系。一个懂汉字的现代中国人，不用经过特别的训练，就能阅读3000-4000年前的文字。古代苏美尔、埃及和印度教的文本对这些地方的现代居民中没有经过特别训练的人来说却是个谜。
Noel Leong
The lix shows a list, in chronological order from oldest onward, of countries where an organized form of government governing a fixed boundary existed. It’s not a list about how long the history of a civilization.
It’s generally accepted in academic circle that the oldest human civilization is the Sumerian civilization in Mesopotamia, along the Euphrates River Delta,which is the region of modern day’s Iran-Iraq. After the Sumerian, came the three other oldest civilizations: the Indus River Delta (India), Nile River Delta (Egypt) and Yellow-Yang Tze Rivers Delta (China).
No one stated China has the oldest history in Asia; what stated is the Chinese civilization is the longest continuous civilization, not only of Asia but of the world. Reason : modern days’ Iran and Iraq had very little connection to the Sumerian civilization, modern India has very little to do with the ancient Indus civilization and modern Egypt has nothing to do with the ancient Egyptian civilization. However, modern Chinese civilization : from language, writing and culture has a traceable connection to ancient Chinese civilization. A modern Chinese who know Chinese characters is able to read text written 3000–4000 years ago without special training. Ancient Sumerian, Egyptian and Hindu texts are mystery to the modern inhabitant of these places without special training.
你发的链接里显示了一个从最古老的国家开始按时间顺序排列的列表，一个有组织性政府管理的边界固定的国家。它并不是一个关于一个文明历史有多古老的列表。
学术界普遍接受美索不达米亚的苏美尔文明是最古老的人类文明，沿着幼发拉底河三角洲，也就是现在的伊朗-伊拉克地区。在苏美尔人之后又有了另外三个最古老的文明印度河三角洲（印度），尼罗河三角洲（埃及）黄河-长江三角洲（中国）。
没有人说中国拥有亚洲最古老的历史；中国文明是持续时间最长的文明，不止是在亚洲文明中，而且是在世界文明之中。
理由：现代的伊朗和伊拉克与苏美尔文明几乎没有关系，现代印度与古印度河文明几乎没有关系，现代埃及与古埃及文明一点关系都没有。然而，近代中华文明：从语言、写作和文化上都与中国古代文明有着可追溯的联系。一个懂汉字的现代中国人，不用经过特别的训练，就能阅读3000-4000年前的文字。古代苏美尔、埃及和印度教的文本对这些地方的现代居民中没有经过特别训练的人来说却是个谜。
评论翻译
很赞 ( 21 )
收藏
I think that another answer brought up something that is very important. I will adjust and add to the list, however:
我想另一个回答带来了一些很重要的东西。我将会阐述并添加进这个列表，然而： define “Asia”
define “country”
定义什么是“亚洲”
定义什么是“历史”
定义什么是“国家” Let’s start with “Asia”. Do you mean this?
让我们从“亚洲”这个概念开始。你是指这里吗？
还是这里？
Or this?
还是这里
Or maybe even this?
或者甚至是指这里？
（不完整中国地图 略）
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
地理上讲，我会说第二幅地图可能是最准确的，但当你讨论文化的时候，即使是具体到“东亚”，最后一张地图可能是一张更好的。
第二，什么是“历史”？你是指存在书写的时候吗？毕竟，历史和史前的定义就是以此划分的：
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Do you mean archaeological evidence of civilization?
Do you mean the continuous line of historic written records? If you mean this last one, you also must define what “continuous” means.
I personally would be happy to go with any of these. I typically would say that history should be defined by written records, backed up by archaeological evidence.
Finally, what do you mean by “country”?
This one is obviously poorly explained, according to the list you provided.
你是指文明的考古学证据吗？
你是指一条不间断的历史文字记录吗？如果你指的是这最后一个，你同时也必须定义“不间断”是什么意思。
我个人很乐意接受这些。我一般会说历史应当被文字记录定义，同时由考古学证据支撑。
最后，你说的“国家”是什么意思？
这一点很明显被你解释的很差劲，根据你所提供的列表。
Iran is listed as the oldest country in the world, dating back more than 5000 years. But is there any connection whatsoever between the Iran today and the ancient Elamites?
伊朗被列为世界上最古老的国家，能追溯到5000多年前。但是现在的伊朗与那些古老的元素还有一丝一毫的联系吗？
Iranian people today
今日的伊朗人
Statuette of an Elamite woman
一尊埃兰人女性的雕像
或者说这个列表
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
South Sudan is the youngest country, but by listing it here, it is completely ignoring the ancient Kushite people:
南苏丹是最年轻的国家，但是通过把它列入这个列表，它完全无视了古代库什特人。
Here’s a picture a woman from South Sudan:
这是一张南苏丹女性的照片：
And here’s a depiction of women from the Empire of Kush:
而这时一张来自库什特帝国女性的描绘
There are much more cultural similarities between these two than there are between the Iranian women and the woman from Elam.
这两者之间的文化相似性比伊朗妇女和埃兰妇女之间的文化要相似的多。
首先，让我们假设南苏丹是最年轻的国家，考虑到在这个列表中的南苏丹任政府是在2011年成立的，那么我们需要承认中国实际上是1949年建立的。那样的话，这意味着这一整个表格都需要被调整成这样：
On this list, based on the founding of the current government, China is the third oldest, with only North Korea and Israel beating it out by one year. This means that the list given is highly skewed.
在这个列表里，基于现政府的建立，中国是第三古老的，只比北朝鲜和以色列晚1年。这意味着这个列表是非常不准确的。
我想大多数人都同意这些文明中的大多数存在时间早于20世纪或21世纪，对吧？所以如果这么说，我们需要稍微扩展一下参数。让我们先把它变得宽泛些吧。永久的、非狩猎采集者人类定居点的考古证据：
Here, we can clearly see that China blows the others out of the water, having permanent settlements more than three thousand years before the next, in Israel. In fact, the oldest known pottery was discovered here, dating between 20,000–10,000 BCE!
这里，我们可以清楚的看到中国直接远超其他国家，比第二名以色列建立永久聚居地早了三千多年。事实上世界上最古老的陶器就是在这里发现的，可以追溯到公元前20000-10000年之间。
But, like I said, that’s casting the net really wide, so let’s do oldest writing. This is where it gets complicated, because places like China developed writing, but not all the oldest writing is decipherable:
但是，正如我所说的，让我们把网撒的更广一些，所以让我们看看最古老的文字。这里事情就复杂起来了，因为像中国这类地方发展出了文字，但并不是所有最古老的文字都是可解读的：
These are called the Jiahu symbols. They represent a form of writing that existed around 6000 BCE, but they are undeciphered.
这些被称为贾湖契刻符。它们代表着一种存在于公元前6000年左右的文字形式，但它们尚未被破解。
This is the Shang dyansty Oracle Bone scxt. It’s the oldest deciphered writing from China, and dates back to around 1250 BCE - that’s a huge difference in time between the two, but that doesn’t mean that writing didn’t exist. So, once again, let me adjust the list:
这是商朝甲骨文。它是中国最古老的已破译文字，并且其能够追溯到公元前1250年-在两者之间有着巨大的时间差，但是那也并不表示文字不存在。所以，又一次，让我调整一下这个列表：
Again we see that China blows the competition out of the water. Even if we go with the oldest deciphered text, in which case, the Harappan scxt from India would have to be replaced with something closer to the Kharoṣṭhī scxt from Afghanistan, we see that China’s writing is still older than most others listed here.
In short, if you are willing to bend your definitions, and not apply the same conditions to all others, then yes, you could make the argument that China isn’t as old as other countries, but doing so is hardly in line with “scientific facts”, and is nothing but being academically dishonest.
我们可以看到中国又一次远远甩开了它的对手。即使我们用最古老的已破译文本，这么说，印度的哈拉帕文本将会被某种接近阿富汗的哈马西文本所取代，我们看到中国文字依然比大多数这个表里来出的其他文明古老。
简单来说，如果你想要改变你的定义，但是却不讲同样的条件适用到其他所有对象上，那么式的，你可以为中国并不像其他国家那么古老而争辩一番，但这么做很难说得上是“科学事实”，并且这只不过是学术上的不诚实。
This type of question is the most annoying. They did not offend any existing rules but presupposed a completely unfounded conclusion in the question in order to mislead the audience.
Thank you for refuting the question and protecting the correct knowledge of the public.
这类问题是最烦人的。他们并不违反任何现有规定，但是在问题中假设一个毫无根据的结论，以达到误导观众的目的。
谢谢你能够驳斥这一问题并为大家保护正确的知识。
儒以文乱法, 侠以武犯忌
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
精彩的回答，这种讨论方式非常全面和严谨。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Succinctly put! Though I do have a question on the last part. When does a scxt, well, become another scxt? If we throw Japanese into the mix, would the borrowing of Chinese characters for sound (Manyogana) be considered a new writing system (hence its starting point)?
简洁的论述！尽管这样我确实对最后那部分有一个疑问。在什么时候一种文字会转变成另一种文字呢？如果我们把日语混入讨论，借用汉字作为注音（万叶假名）能被认为是一种新的书写系统（以此为它的起点）吗？
I went with the oldest known scxt from the region, or at least oldest that I could find. For Japan, yes, Manyogana is a good example of a purely Japanese scxt, but I would probably cite the King of Na gold seal from c. 57 CE as the earliest example of scxt in Japan:
Although it is definitely in the Chinese language, it represents the earliest known writing found in Japan.
我选择了该地区已知的最古老的文字记录，或者至少是我能找到的最古老的文字记录。至于日本，是的，万叶假名的确是是纯日本文字的一个很好示例，但我可能会引用公元57年的倭王金印作为日本最早的文字例子：
尽管它是百分之百的中文，却代表着日本已知最早的文字。
Wow, such mind blowing answer. I knew a large part of your answer before but I have never seen it this way. Really appreciate your information. Thank you so much.
哇哦，真是大开眼界的回答。我之前知道你回答中的一部分内容但我从来没从这个角度观察过。真的很感谢你提供的信息。非常感谢。
Trolls .. n paid agents . Don’t spend too much tome on their silly questions ..
喷子.. 嗯付费水军。别在他们愚蠢的问题上花太多时间。
Yeah, that’s true. On the other hand, their troll questions can be a great conduit for disproving their ridiculousness by using actual evidence.
是啊，这倒是真的。不过另一方面，他们的喷子问题可以成为一个很好的渠道反过来证明他们的荒谬。
Thanks for taking the time to answer those silly questions. Your answers help alot of us to understand the facts and also those silliness. Cheers!
感谢你花时间回答这些愚蠢的问题。你的回答帮助我们很多人了解了事实和那些愚蠢的事情。加油！
That old countries list is nonsense. E.g. in Vietnam case it assumed mystical “Hồng Bàng dynasty” as some kind of history. Even the subsequent “Âu Lạc” was more mystical than facts. China’s Xia would be much more historical.
那个古老国家的排名简直荒谬。比如在越南的案例中，它假定神话的“Hồng Bàng王朝”为某种历史。甚至随后的“Âu Lạc”也比事实更加神话。 中国的夏王朝要有历史意义的多。
I don’t understand, why is it so important to some people to prove that China is not that old?
我不明白，为什么对有些人来说证明中国没有那么古老这么重要？
Probably a mixture of hyper-nationalism and insecurity, with perhaps a sprinkling of racism thrown in for good measure.
Just look at the person who originally asked the question, Hong That Cong. He insists that China is only a few centuries old (at most), and does so without any evidence. He also insists that Vietnam is nearly 5000 years old, again, without any evidence. For some reason, he can’t fathom the idea that Chinese culture had a huge influence on Vietnamese culture, to the point of the first writing in Vietnam being Chinese scxt (known in Vietnamese as Văn ngôn), which was the only writing system in Vietnam from 111 BCE until the invention of Chữ Nôm, which are variations of Chinese scxt better adapted to the Vietnamese language, in c. 1282. A few centuries later, in c. 1620, the Portuguese invented the Latinized writing system (which is the most common one used today), called chữ Quốc ngữ. The original Chinese scxt (as well as the Chữ Nôm variation), however, continued to be used for official and academic purposes all the way until 1917, when the French colonial government banned its use.
可能是一种极端民族主义和缺乏安全感的混合，再加上可能一丝的的种族主义作为调料。
看看那个第一个问这个问题的人是谁，Hong That Cong。他坚持声称中国几乎只有几个世纪的历史，并且在这么做的时候没有任何证据。他同时坚称越南有着接近5000年的历史，再一次，没有任何证据。出于某些原因，他无法接受中国文化对越南文化有巨大的影响这一看法，影响大到越南的第一个书写系统是汉语，而这是越南自公元前111年起到喃字发明前唯一的书写系统，而它又是一种更好适配越南语的中国文字变体，产生于1282年。几个世纪以后在1620年，葡萄牙人发明了拉丁化的书写系统（就是今天最常用的），叫做 chữ Quốc ngữ。原本的汉字（同时也包括喃字版本），不管怎样，继续被官方和学术界一直用到1917年，当时法国殖民政府禁止了其应用。
You haven’t spoked of Sumerian they made cities 4500–3500 BCE as Ubaid.
Usually civilization is considered to start whith the firsts cities
你还没有说过苏美尔人，他们作为奥贝德文化在公元前4500-3500年建造了一些城市。通常文明被认为是从第一座城市开始的。
No, I didn’t, although I was thinking of them. I focused exclusively on the list that the questioner provided. This is another good example of how horrible the list(s) provided are. How could they possibly state Iran or North Korea as older than Iraq?
Oh, and fun fact: Sumerian proto-Cuneiform is the oldest deciphered written language, dating to around 3300 BCE. However, when you look at written languages that haven’t been deciphered, it rests at around the third or fourth oldest written language.
Finally, the term “city” is ambiguous. I see that in another comment you mention Damascus and Jericho (by the way, a common courtesy on Quora is to write a single comment, not spam multiple ones. If you think of something after you post it, you can go and edit your comment). They were settlements - arguably settlements of decent size, but the term “settlement” is a much better descxtor. The term “city” implies specialization of society - farmers, workers, rulers, priests, artisans, bureaucrats, etc., but there is no evidence of this at the earliest levels of these sites. Besides, Damascus dates back to c. 6300 BCE (though settlements in the surrounding area date back as far as 9000 BCE), not to mention how Syria also isn’t on the list the questioner provided (just another example of how flawed the list is). For Jericho, the oldest permanent settlement dates to c. 10,000 BCE, and was first settled by members of the Natufian culture - the same culture that I mentioned in my answer. The thing is, though, that it isn’t the oldest known site of Natufian culture. Tell Abu Hureyra, for example, although technically outside of Israel, dates back to c. 13,000 BCE and has some of the earliest evidence agriculture.
对，我没有，尽管我当时考虑过它们。我将注意力只集中于提问者所提供的那个排名上了。这也是另一个非常好的例子，说明所提供的这些排名是多么的糟糕。他们怎么可能声称伊朗或朝鲜比伊拉克更古老呢？
哦，还有一个有趣的事实：苏美尔的原始契形文字是最古老的可破译书面语言，可以追溯到公元前3300年左右。然而，当你看看那些尚未被破译的书面语言时，它就处于第三或第四古老的语言这个位置了。
最后，“城市”这个说法有些模棱两可。我看到你在另一条评论里提到了大马士革和杰里科（顺便说一句，在QA上通常礼貌的做法是只写一个评论，而不是灌水式的写好几条。如果你发布后又想到了些什么，你可以之后修改你的评论。）但它们只是定居点——可以称得上是规模可观的定居点，但“定居点”这个说法是一个更好的描述。“城市”一词意味着社会的专业分工——农民、工人、统治者、牧师、工匠、官僚等等。但在这些遗址的早期地层上，并没有这一类的证据。另外，大马士革的历史可以追溯到公元前6300年（尽管周边地区的定居点可以追溯到公元前9000年），更不用说叙利亚也不在提问者提供的排名上（这只是个排名有多么大缺陷的另一个例子）。
the oldest cities of the world should be Gerico 9000 BCE and Damasco that are in the Middle East
世界上最古老的城市应该是公元前9000年的格里科和位于中东的达马斯科
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Vietnam was founded in 1945 not 1976
越南是1945年建立的不是1976年。
I went with the date of unification. I’m sorry if you disagree with that, but I did so because upon unification, the government changed themselves from the Democratic Republic of Vietnam to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, which is the official name of the country today.
我选择了统一的那个日期。如果你不同意这一观点那我很抱歉，但我这么做的原因是在统一的时候，政府将他们自己的名字从越南民主共和国改为了越南社会主义共和国，而这一名称是这一政府的现用官方名称。