网友讨论：为什么越南依然贫穷？
Why is Vietnam still poor?
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网友讨论：为什么越南依然贫穷？
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网友讨论：为什么越南依然贫穷？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
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Follow M.S. in Economics (college major) & Mathematics, Queen Mary, University of London (Graduated 2014)upxed 2y
I’m chinese and I want to share my opinion with you.
i went to Vietnam for 2 times. I discover a very interesting thing
vietnam GDP per capita is about 3000USD now, in this level we got mongolia, India, Indonesia and Philippine
But if you have been to vietnam, you will realize that vietnam is the best among them
At least in vietnam, i’ve never seen any extreme poor people in vietnam who are totally homeless. Lots of extreme poor people you can find in India and Phlipine, but in vietnam most people just live in a way “not rich but still acceptable”
and also, the education and the medical level, vietnam always does the best among them
The problem of vietnamese economy now is mainly about industrial system
vietnam was an agricultural country, and doesn’t have a comlete industrial system. Japan built its industrial system before WW2, Korea because of US support, and China by USSR support. All of eastern asian countries got complete industrial system, which can help us develop our own technology and find our own way to walk
While Vietnam doesn’t have this condition
我是中国人，我想和你分享一下我的观点。
我去过越南两次，发现了一个非常有趣的现象
越南现在的人均gdp大约为3000美元，和印尼，印度，蒙古，菲律宾处于同一个水平
但如果你去过越南，你会发现越南是这几个国家里面最好的一个
至少在越南，我没有见过极端贫困，无家可归的人。而印度和菲律宾有很多极端贫困的人，但在越南，大部分人的生活虽然不富裕，但依然可以接受
而且越南的教育和医疗一直都是这些国家里面最好的
越南现在的经济问题主要和工业体系有关
越南是一个农业国，没有完整的工业体系。
日本在二战之前就建立了自己的工业体系，韩国之所以可以建立工业体系是因为获得了美国的援助，而中国是获得了苏联的援助。东亚所有国家都有完整的工业体系。这有助于我们发展自己的技术，找到属于我们自己的道路。
而越南没有这样的条件
And now 7 years passed, the earning per capita of vietnam is still low, only $3000
Because all the profits were taken by foreign companies, cuz they own the core technology. Vietnam still hasn’t learnt anything from them and has no their own brand.
By manufacturing Ford and Benz, now japan got honda and nissan. By working for simens, korea got sumsang and LG. by letting Apple set facotries in Canton, now china got Huawei, Xiaomi.
2013年中日爆发政治冲突后，很多日本企业离开中国，前往越南建立工厂。西方国家和韩国也对越南大力投资，由于廉价劳动力，越南已经成为世界工厂之一。你会发现超市里面很多过去是中国制造和韩国制造的产品现在都变成越南制造了。
现在七年时间过去了，越南的人均收入依然很低，只有3000美元，因为所有的利润都被外国企业拿走了，因为他们拥有核心的技术。越南没有从这些外国企业身上学到任何东西，他们没有自己的品牌。
通过为福特和奔驰制造汽车，日本诞生出了本田和日产。通过为西门子企业服务，韩国诞生出了三星和LG。通过允许苹果在广州建厂，中国诞生出了华为和小米
But I’m sure if Vietnam can establish their own complete industrial system and find his own role in world economy, Vietnam could become an economy far much bigger than Taiwan and South Korea, almost similar to japan.
almost 100 million hardworking and clever people (4times more than Taiwan and 2 times more than South Korea), good international political environment (no hostile enemies as North Korea to South Korea, China is a threat but also a partner, good relations with western world), enough resources from South China Sea.
越南没有自己的工业体系，所以你可以将越南视为是西方统治下的全球化的牺牲品。
但我相信如果越南可以建立完整的工业体系，并在世界经济中找到属于自己的角色的话，那么越南的经济体量或许会远超韩国和台湾地区，或许可以几乎达到日本那种水平。
越南拥有近一亿人口，他们勤劳而聪明（越南人口是台湾地区的四倍，是韩国的两倍），而且越南还有良好的国际政治环境（越南不像韩国，没有朝鲜那样的死敌，中国虽然是一个威胁，但同时也是越南的伙伴，越南和西方关系良好），而且南海还有足够多的资源。
PS: some comments wrote that Vietnam got problem of heavy corruption. It’s just common in almost all the developing countries. To 1980–1990 for South Korea and China 10 years ago, human right and corruption were also a big problem. Think about Philippine, Thai and Indian styled “democracy”. Do you feel Vietnam is far much better now?
越南绝对是世界上最有潜力的国家。
评论区有人说越南存在严重的腐败问题，但在几乎所有的发展中国家中腐败是非常常见的一种现象。1980到1990年代的韩国和十年前的中国都存在严重的人权和腐败问题。
对比菲律宾，泰国和印度式的民主，你会发现越南真的要比他们好多了。
· 2y
thanks for your answer. by the way GDP per capita VN is not 1900$ now, but around 3700$
谢谢你的回答，顺便说一下，现在越南的人均gdp不是1900美元，而是3700美元左右
· 2y
Your answer is so on point. If only the Vietnamese could realize the importance of domestically-made products.
你说的很有道理。要是越南人可以意识到国产产品的重要性就好了。
· 2y
Vietnam was savagely bombed to ruin just decades ago. But Vietnam is rebuilding faster than many thought could do.
就在几十年前，越南还处于猛烈的轰炸中。但越南重建的速度比很多人想象的都要快。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
· 2y
Inefficient Soviet style heavy industry was no great help for developing export and technology industries.
低效的苏联式重工业对发展出口和技术产业没有太大帮助.
· 2y
I am sure with lots of Chinese foreign companies moving to Vietnam we can see same miracle as in Vietnam just like china experienced 1,2 decade ago.
我相信随着众多外国企业离开中国前往越南，我们或许也能在越南身上看到一二十年中国经历的经济奇迹。
· 2y
But GDP percapita for Indonesia is 4100 in 2019
但2019年印尼的人均gdp为4100美元
· 2y
Vietnam’s GDP per capital is 1900? I think your information is outdated
越南人均gdp1900美元？我认为你的信息已经过时了
· 2y
Sorry, I corrected~
抱歉，我已经改过来了
· 1y
They used to have completed industry system provided by USSR and China until 1979 when China PLA left north part of Vietnam and destroyed that all, since China didn't allow a powerful Vietnam, just like USSR used not to allow a powerful China.
他们过去的确拥有完整的工业体系，这些工业体系是苏联和中国提供的，到在1979年当中国军队离开越南北部时，他们把所有的工业体系都给摧毁了，因为中国不允许出现一个强大的越南，就像苏联过去不允许出现一个强大的中国一样。
Follow Vietnamese6y
Vietnam is still poor because:
War only ended in 1979
Economy only opened up in 1989
U.S lifted embargo in 1994
Only joined World Trade Organisation in 2007(!!!)
Vietnam had a very short time to develop. Vietnam’s GDP per capita was the same as that of China in 2007. The Communist party is not doing as good of a job in speeding up economic growth due to corruption. So in a way Vietnam is under performing. But even then, I think Vietnam’s journey to reach where it is today is quite impressive.
越南依然贫穷的原因是：
战争在1979年才结束
越南经济直到1989年才开放。
1994年美国才解除对越南的贸易禁运
越南在2007年才加入世贸组织。
越南可以用来发展的时间非常少。越南的人均gdp和2007年的中国相当。由于腐败原因，越南执政党在加快经济发展方面做的并不好。所以越南在某种程度上表现得并不好。但即便如此，我认为越南能取得现在这样的成就依然很了不起。
Lim JongHyun (임종현, 林宗鉉)
You know the four dragons of asia. Singapore and Hongkong was port, and had some basis. They could be rich for there own. In case of Hong Kong, it was international port run by England, and Singapore after independence got their own government that run their own money.
So what was the common between Taiwan and Korea? They were at the forefront of the war during the Cold War. US had paid a lot for them not having been communistic.
你知道亚洲四小龙吗，新加坡和香港是港口，他们拥有一定的基础，可以依靠自己致富。以香港为例，它之前是英国治下的一个国际港口，而新加坡在独立后成立了自己的政府，可以自由管理自己的财富。
那么台湾地区和韩国有何共同点呢？冷战期间他们处于战争的前沿。为了不让这些地方赤化，美国给他们提供了大量的经济援助。
So, my theory is that Korea and Taiwan had supported by US during the Cold War so that they are now rich. US had no choice but to support them, because unlike in Vietnam, the two countries were the powder keg. Supporting is less expensive than War.
I got this idea from the book ‘The Ideas That Conquered the World’ by Michael Mandelbaum.
我是韩国人，几十年前韩国和越南一样的腐败，但后来韩国变得越来越富裕，腐败情况也大大缓解。
所以我认为韩国和台湾地区现在之所以那么富裕是因为冷战期间得到了美国的支持。美国别无选择，只能支持他们，因为和越南不同的是，韩国和台湾地区都是火药桶。给他们提供经济支持总比打仗省钱。
我的这个想法来自于迈克尔·曼德尔鲍姆所写的《The Ideas That Conquered the World》这本书
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
· 3y
When I worked in Samsung, i asked how did Korea got so rich in less than 5 decades, Korean managers always say that because they work for 18 hours a day. I later realise that they didn't tell me the real reason.
当我在三星工作时，我曾问过韩国是如何在不到50年时间里变得如此富裕的，韩国经理们听到后总是说因为我们每天工作18个小时。后来我才意识到他们没有告诉我真正的原因。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
· 4y
Or you want to say that if the US had won the Vietnam War it would have poured money into the country and it would perhaps have become like South Korea or Taiwan. You are basically saying SK and Taiwan were “client states” of the US, and therefore can get economic aid from the US. Unfortunately, Vietnam lost the chance to become a “client states” by defeating the US in the war.
或者你是想要说如果美国打赢了越南战争，那么美国将会大笔的投资越南，那么现在的越南或许会像韩国或者台湾地区一样富裕。基本上你是觉得韩国和台湾地区是美国的附属国，所以才能得到美国的经济援助。而遗憾的是越南在战争中打败了美国，而错过了成为美国附属国的机会。
· 4y
Did the Philippines receive the support from the USA?
菲律宾有接受过美国的援助吗
Lim JongHyun (임종현, 林宗鉉)
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I don’t know about many things, but I do know they were colonies of US
有很多事情我不知道，但我知道他们曾经是美国的殖民地
· 2y
Seems like Vietnam is in the right direction now, but it needs time.
越南现在的道路似乎是正确的，但越南需要时间
· 1y
I think the word ‘poor’ is no longer proper for Vietnam
我认为贫穷这个词已经不适合用在越南身上了
· 2y
Vietnamese people are smart, industrious, but why is Vietnam still poor? Due to a number of reasons as follows: Due to the constant war, the administrative procedures are too cumbersome and complicated, leading to corruption, this is the main cause of slow development in Vietnam.
越南人勤劳聪明，但为什么越南依然贫穷呢？有以下几个原因：不断的战争，过于繁琐和复杂行政程序导致了腐败，这是越南经济发展缓慢的主要原因。
· 1y
I also think like that. My country has faced too many wars. Its the main reason why the country is difficult to develop. But we will change them. Make VietNam great again!
我也是这样认为的。我们国家已经经历了太多的战争。这是国家难以发展的主要原因。但我们会改变这个国家的，我们会让越南再次伟大。
· 2y
Vietnam is poor ???
越南贫穷？
· 2y
Basically, in GDP Per Capital, they still are most poor.
基本上就人均gdp而言，越南依然是最穷的