为什么来自美国的男性似乎比来自其他西方国家的男性更暴力？（1）
Why are men from the US seem to be more violent than men from other western countries?
译文简介
我发这个帖子的原因是，在过去的几十年里，我注意到美国男人（尤其是保守的男人）倾向于崇拜暴力，我敢说至少比来自法国的男人更崇拜暴力。
正文翻译
Why are men from the US seem to be more violent than men from other western countries?
为什么来自美国的男性似乎比来自其他西方国家的男性更暴力？
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Now for me, I’m from Canada, which is a country bordering the US, with similar colonial history, language and culture but living in Canada I can generally say i feel pretty safe as a woman, whereas when I traveled to the US I can’t say the same.
And I’ve seen many American women say the same on many different social media platforms. So I know I’m not the only one feeling this.
I’ve also lived in mainland China and Hong Kong besides Canada, and traveled to around 10 western countries(including US) and US just gave me a different vibe, for a lack of a better word.
And yes, we all know US have a gun culture, but could this really be the only reason why American men are more violent?
Also I noticed comparing living in the west and living in Asia, western men are much more easy to fall into loneliness than Asian men living in Asia, personally I believe it’s due to the effect of the individualistic culture that the West promotes vs the collectivism culture in the East.
So yeah, let me know your thoughts on this , if you’re from the US feel free to share your experience, if you’re not from the US but have been there , feel free to chime in as well
我发这个帖子的原因是，在过去的几十年里，我注意到美国男人（尤其是保守的男人）倾向于崇拜暴力，我敢说至少比来自法国的男人更崇拜暴力。
至于我，我来自加拿大，这是一个与美国接壤的国家，有类似的殖民历史、语言和文化，但生活在加拿大，我可以说我作为一个女人感到相当安全，而当我去美国旅行时，我不能说是这样。
我在许多不同的社交媒体平台上看到许多美国妇女也这么说。所以我知道我不是唯一有这种感觉的人。
除了加拿大，我还在中国大陆和香港生活过，并到过大约10个西方国家（包括美国），只有美国给了我一种不同的“氛围”，不知道怎么形容好。
是的，我们都知道美国有枪支文化，但这真的是美国男人更暴力的唯一原因吗？
我还注意到，比较一下生活在西方和生活在亚洲的男人，西方男人比生活在亚洲的男人更容易陷入孤独，我个人认为这是由于西方提倡的个人主义文化与东方的集体主义文化的影响。
所以，让我知道你的想法，如果你来自美国，请随时分享你的经验，如果你不是来自美国，但去过那里，也请随时加入交流。
The feeling I get from American men is they have a sense of exceptionalism and entitlement that goes above and beyond.
美国男人给我的感觉是，他们有一种超乎寻常的优越感和自我。
It’s the entitlement for me. Not quite sure when or how that happened but it is rampant.
我同意自我的问题。我不太清楚这是什么时候或怎么发生的，但它很猖獗。
Also there is the whole legacy of cowboys in this country.
还有就是这个国家的牛仔传统遗留问题。
This is a correlation vs causation problem. Many guys are very sweet and peaceful but given all the shootings lately they’ve become more rare
这是一个因果循环的问题。很多人都很好，很平和，但鉴于最近发生的所有枪击事件，这些人变得更加罕见了。
I hate to generalize American men, and to some extent, I feel like my comment above could be a generalization, but when I look at the men in my life that I love and know are nonviolent, I just get a sense that these men feel like they have the power to do anything they want because they have grown up in a nationalistic society and culture that promotes the patriarchy.
Like, I don't think many American men are thinking about the oppression of women, children, families, etc in other parts of the world, let alone their own country. They've never had to live their lives as the minority.
我讨厌把美国男人一概而论，在某种程度上，我觉得我上面的评论可能是一种一概而论，但当我看着我生活中那些我爱的、我知道他其实是非暴力的男人时，我感觉到这些男人觉得他们有权力做任何他们想做的事情，因为他们在一个提倡父权制的民族主义社会和文化中成长起来。
就像，我不认为许多美国男人会想到世界上其他地方的妇女、儿童、家庭等受到的压迫，更不用说在他们自己的国家里。他们从来没有理解过作为一个少数群体生活是什么样的感受。
I get the sense that many men spend their lives in secret terror of becoming a minority. So many conspiracies about books, movies, or even simple acts of kindness turning a "real" man gay. It's as though they realize their privilege on some level, even though they would never admit it out loud, and fear losing it.
我感觉到，许多男人一生都在暗地里害怕成为少数群体。有很多关于书籍、电影，甚至是一个简单的善意行为就将一个"真正的"男人变成同性恋的阴谋。仿佛他们在某种程度上意识到了自己的特权，尽管他们永远不会大声承认，并害怕失去它。
that's an interesting observation. When you've been handed everything on a silver platter your entire life, the thought of it all going away and having to live below these standards must be terrifying.
这是个有趣的观察。当你一生都在享受特权时，想到这一切都会消失，不得不在少数群体的标准下生活，一定是很可怕的。
I think you ladies are onto something. The men in my family that are aggressive, abusive and misogynistic tend to end their conversations with the phrase, “But I’m not gay.”
There is nothing wrong with being gay at all. I always tried to understand why they said this when they seemed to be communicating at their most vulnerable moments. I still don’t understand it, and I will never excuse them for their horrific behavior towards women.
Is there a connection here?
我认为你们发现了一些问题。我家里那些具有攻击性、虐待性和厌恶女性的男人往往以"但我不是同性恋"这句话结束他们的谈话。
成为同性恋根本就没有什么错。我总是试图理解为什么他们在最脆弱的时刻好像是说好了一样都会说这句话。我仍然不明白，我永远不会为他们对女性的可怕行为提供借口。
这里有什么联系吗？
Our culture is violence-based, especially in the ammo sexual community.
It really is the guns and the rest of purchasing military style assault weapons for "home security."
It is grotesque, and we kind of suck as a society.
我们的文化是以暴力为基础的，特别是在狂热枪支爱好者。
对他们来说购买枪和其他军事风格的攻击性武器是"家庭安全"的一部分。
这是怪诞的，我们作为一个社会有点糟糕。
OP
Interesting point, can you elaborate more on the ammo sexual community and what do you mean by that ?
有趣的观点，你能更详细地说明“ammosexual community”是什么意思吗？
It is a term to describe the gun obsessed people, typically men, who believe the Second Amendment is the most important of the Bill of Rights, and is more important than ensuring children are safe in school.
这是一个描述迷恋枪支的人的术语，通常是男性，他们认为第二修正案是权利法案中最重要的，比确保儿童在学校的安全更重要。
To expand on this a bit, for these people, owning and carrying a gun is a central part of their identity as a person. Regardless of their justification for it, the basic necessity of them owning and carrying a gun outweighs anyone else's consideration for safety, no matter how basic. These people practically worship the NRA, and strongly tend to favour the republican party.
They tend to go hard on toxic masculine concepts, from the aforementioned violence solutions, to masculine superiority. There's a big overlap with anti-government sentiment and dysfunctional individualism.
再扩大一点，对这些人来说，拥有和携带枪支是他们作为一个人身份的核心部分。不管他们的理由是什么，他们认为拥有和携带枪支的基本必要性超过了其他任何人对安全的考虑，不管别人怎么说。这些人几乎全都崇拜全国步枪协会，并强烈倾向于支持共和党。
他们倾向于大力宣传有毒的男性概念，从前面提到的暴力解决方案，到男性的优越性。这与反政府情绪和失调的个人主义有很大重叠。
The US culture is heavily based on violence. War on drugs, war on poverty.
美国的文化在很大程度上是基于暴力的。对毒品的战争，对贫穷的战争。
Even economically, in business, there's often a sense of kill or be killed, fight or die.
即使在经济上，在商业上，也经常有一种你死我活，鱼死网破的感觉。
It’s a combo of things. American nationalism, gun culture, patriarchy, rampant and unchecked religious extremism in Christianity, etc. Violence is strength to the American man, and America is all about showing strength.
这是一个多种因素组合而成的东西。美国的民族主义、枪支文化、父权制、基督教中猖獗且不受控制的宗教极端主义等等。对美国人来说，暴力就是力量，而美国就是要展示力量。
I've lived and worked on three continents (North America, Europe, & South America), traveled to many countries, and honestly -- I have to disagree with you. I don't think US men are more violent than men from other Western countries.
It's interesting you pick France as an example, because I would actual pick France as the place with the most dangerous & violent men I've ever encountered in my life.
Just thinking about my personal experiences, while I was living in France (less than 2 years), I:
Witnessed a man kill his partner in a domestic dispute
Had my local train station shut down due a different murder (a man threw a woman he'd been stalking in front of a train) and got to spend a week staring at whatever powder/crap they used to try to soak up/clean off the blood from the tracks
Had a man try to abduct me in broad daylight (my close friend also narrowly avoided an abduction by two men that same year, also during the day)
Had to help a different friend avoid her stalker, who repeatedly broke into her home and office to leave her "gifts" (police did nothing)
我在三大洲（北美、欧洲和南美）生活和工作过，到过很多国家，说实话，我不同意你的观点。我不认为美国男人比其他西方国家的男人更暴力。
有趣的是，你选择法国作为例子，而我也会选择法国作为我一生中遇到过最危险和暴力的男人的地方的例子。
仅就我的个人经历而言，当我在法国生活时（不到两年），我：
1）目睹了一个男人在家庭纠纷中杀死了他的伴侣
2）我所在的火车站因另一起谋杀案而关闭（一个男人把他一直在跟踪的女人撞到了火车前面），并目睹了他们在一周的时间内如何清除铁轨上的血迹之类的东西。
3）有一个男人试图在光天化日之下绑架我（我的亲密朋友也在同一年险些被两个男人绑架，也是在白天）。
4）我不得不帮助另一个朋友躲避她的跟踪者，这个跟踪者多次闯入她的家和办公室，给她留下 "礼物"（警察什么也没做）。
In fact, I was more comfortable traveling as a woman alone in South America (I went on several solo expeditions) than I was leaving my apartment after dark in France.
I think here's what happens -- when we travel to other countries (especially western Europe), most travelers don't go outside of the touristy areas, and those touristy areas tend to be very safe because tourism is so critical to those countries' economies. Those touristy areas are protected and tend to be extra safe, often safer than the "everyday" places in that country.
Meanwhile, where I lived in France was very far from any major tourism destinations (foreigners like myself were quite rare). When I went to touristy spots in France like Paris, Nice, Mont Saint-Michel, etc., I was always treated wonderfully, never had issues with anyone, etc. If those were the only places I visited, I would have said that I felt very safe as a woman in France, safer than I did in the USA! But the places I went for my work were very non-touristy. And in those places, I felt extremely, extremely unsafe as a woman, way LESS safe than in the USA.
我在美国生活了20多年，去过30多个州（大部分是自己旅行），类似的事情发生在我身上的概率是：零。
事实上，我作为一个女人独自在南美旅行（我进行了几次单独的探险），比我在法国天黑后离开我的公寓感觉更舒服。
我想事情是这样的--当我们去其他国家（尤其是西欧）旅行时，大多数旅行者不会离开旅游区，而那些旅游区往往非常安全，因为旅游业对这些国家的经济非常关键。这些旅游区受到保护，往往特别安全，往往比该国的"日常"地方更安全。
同时，我在法国居住的地方离任何主要的旅游目的地都很远（像我这样的外国人相当罕见）。当我去法国的旅游景点，如巴黎、尼斯、圣米歇尔山等，我也总是受到很好的对待，从未与任何人发生过问题。如果这些是我唯一去过的地方，我会说我作为一个女人在法国感到非常安全，比我在美国还安全！但我因工作而去的地方是一个远非旅游景点的地方。在那些地方，我觉得作为一个女人非常、非常不安全，比在美国还不安全。
For example, in 2019, France saw about 90 million international travelers (this was more than France's population of 65 million). Now, in 2019, the USA saw about 79 million international travelers... against a population of 328 million. Our "tourism spots" are just our big cities, and they're still more catered to locals (and domestic travelers) than international.
So unless you're really purposeful about going into non-touristy areas (like, not just "off the beaten path" in the guidebook, but literally not even mentioned in the guidebook), in many Western countries (especially western European countries) you get a curated tourist experience that is safer than the "everyday" experience of locals in that country. Of course American women find this "safer" than their "everyday" USA experience.
But in the US, that degree of "curated experience" doesn't exist (outside of Disneyland, maybe?). In fact, because city/urban violent crime rates are 74% higher than rural crime rates in the USA and most international travelers are visiting urban areas in the US, that means they're not only NOT getting a "curated tourist experience" but that they're actually getting an experience that is potentially more dangerous than if they went to a non-tourist locale like the suburbs or a rural area.
但美国是如此之大，而且由于国际旅游业对我们来说说实话并不像对其他国家那么重要，我们没有很多地方比当地人更迎合游客的需求。
例如，在2019年，法国有大约9000万国际游客（这比法国的6500万人口还要多）。在2019年，美国大约有7900万国际旅行者......而美国的人口为3.28亿。我们的"旅游景点"只是我们的大城市，而且它们仍然更迎合当地人（和国内旅行者），而不是国际。
因此，除非你真的有目的地进入非旅游区（比如，不仅仅是旅游指南中的"非主流"景点，而是字面上甚至没有在旅游指南中提到过的地方），在许多西方国家（尤其是西欧国家），你得到的是精心策划的旅游体验，这比该国当地人的"日常"体验更安全。理所当然地，美国妇女会觉得这比她们在美国的"日常"经历更"安全"。
但在美国，这种程度的"精心策划的体验"并不存在（也许在迪斯尼乐园之外）。事实上，因为在美国，城市/城区的暴力犯罪率比农村犯罪率高74%，而大多数国际旅行者都去美国的城市地区，这意味着他们不仅没有得到"精心策划的旅游体验"，而且实际上他们得到的体验可能比他们去郊区或农村等非旅游地区更危险。
There is a hughe class discrepancy betwean poor and the rich in the US. In most western countries it's way smaller. And poverty leads to violence and crime.
在美国，穷人和富人之间存在着巨大的阶级差异。在大多数西方国家，它要小得多。贫困会导致暴力和犯罪。
I'm gonna go a bit against the grain here:
I don't think American men are necessarily more violent than European or other western nations ones; I think that the US has a more open culture when it comes to reporting domestic and sexual violence.
I'd wager that violence rates are similar, though Americans' love of guns might mean that there are more serious physical injury/fatal incidents.
我在这里要反其道而行之。
我不认为美国男人一定比欧洲或其他西方国家的男人更暴力；我认为在举报家庭暴力和性暴力方面，美国的文化更加开放。
我敢打赌，暴力发生率是相似的，尽管美国人对枪支的热爱可能意味着有更多严重的身体伤害/死亡事件。
As a person that moved from the UK to the US as an early adolescent I found UK kids were more violent than US kids. I used to fight more there.
作为一个在青春期早期从英国搬到美国的人，我发现英国的孩子比美国的孩子更暴力。我曾经在那里打过更多的架。
Yes, this. My wife’s family are Brits and my mother-in-law grew up in a really rough part of Liverpool. My MIL chose to stay with a crappy husband in Kuwait (of all places) because she was afraid if she went back to the UK, she’d have to live in a dodgy area and her sons would get targeted by gangs.
Which is all to say: I don’t necessarily think that US men are more violent than men in other countries. Brits can be pretty awful. I mean look at football (soccer) hooligans. Mobs of hooligans riot after matches (win or lose), burning shit and attacking random people (sometimes killing them). The British government had to pass laws specifically targeting hooligans to try to stop the madness.
Americans get fed the sanitized version of the UK, where it’s all sophisticated Downton Abbey types or people baking cute cakes, but there’s just as much badness. They just kill with knives and fists instead of guns.
加一。我妻子的家人是英国人，我的岳母在利物浦一个非常混乱的地方长大。我的岳母选择与一个讨厌鬼丈夫留在科威特（宁愿选择这里），因为她担心如果她回到英国，她将不得不生活在一个肮脏的地区，她的儿子会成为帮派的目标。
这就是我要说的。我不一定认为美国男人比其他国家的男人更暴力。英国人可能非常可怕。我的意思是，看看足球流氓。一群流氓在比赛后暴动（无论输赢），焚烧垃圾，攻击路人（有时会杀死他们）。英国政府不得不出台专门针对足球流氓的法律，试图阻止这种疯狂行为。
美国人被灌输了英国的消毒版本，好像那里都是优雅的唐顿庄园类型或烤着可爱蛋糕的人，但其实那里也有同样多的坏人。他们只是用刀子和拳头而不是枪来杀人。
I stayed in the US when I was younger for a year or two. It really seemed in school anyway, that it was less violent as well. Even more juvenile in a way. However they seemed more entitled than UK kids. Which was more in line with the rich kids I ran into in Uni.
我年轻的时候在美国呆过一两年。反正在学校里，真的好像没那么暴力。甚至在某种程度上更单纯。然而，他们似乎比英国的孩子更自我。这与我在大学里遇到的富家子弟更为一致。
This. British guys, and some other European guys (French, German) go out and fight for fun. They call it a bit of fun. WTF.
加一。英国人和其他一些欧洲人（法国人、德国人）动不动就打一架。他们称这是一种乐趣。什么鬼。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You don't start shooting people though
至少你不会向人开枪
Yeah, guns are a whole other thing.
Maybe non-US people feel more free to fight because they can reasonably expect their antagonist does not have a gun.
是的，枪是另一回事。
也许非美国人觉得打架更自由，因为他们可以合理地预期他们的对手没有枪。
A lot of US men are simply too fat to fight
很多美国男人都太胖了，根本打不起来
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I feel like I'm qualified to answer this as a dude who has lived in Europe and the US for more than 15 years each.
US
The US combines anti-intellectualism, gun culture, sexism, religion, homophobia, and a weird obsession with the idea of "dominance" into a cultural slurry that just flat-out encourages violence as a form of self-expression and "masculinity". Basically ALL pro-social behaviors are treated as explicitly wrong and result in a loss of face in front of other men. Negligence and abuse normally aren't explicitly encouraged, but basically being a decent person is socially punished unless you carefully curate your social circle (which people usually don't).
我觉得我有资格回答这个问题，因为我是一个在欧洲和美国各生活了超过15年的人。
美国
美国将反智主义、枪支文化、性别歧视、宗教、同性恋恐惧症以及对"统治"概念的奇怪迷恋结合在一起，形成了一种文化泥石流，非常鼓励将暴力作为自我表达和"男性化"的一种形式。基本上，所有的利社会行为都被视为明确的错误，并导致你在其他男人面前丢脸。傲慢和虐待通常不会被明确鼓励，但基本上在这里做一个正派的人在社会上会受到惩罚，除非你精心规划你的社交圈（人们通常不会这样做）。
Most of that just isn't the case in Europe (and other continents, but I haven't spent enough time there to speak for them). Even very sexist cultures in Europe only have half of these cultural drivers in the same way (sexism, religion, homophobia is a common combo). That still probably leads to a lot of violence, but statistically it's clear that it's not in the same way or with the same homicidal intensity as in the US.
Especially in the more egalitarian parts of Europe, it's completely normal for absolute dudebro-looking men to have hobbies that include cooking, knitting, gardening, book clubs, or just blasting Ariana Grande, or whoever's famous right now, while pumping iron at the gym.
You just get a sense that guys "grow up" more, meaning they don't spend much (or any) energy on "proving" their masculinity to other dudes, the way insecure teenagers do.
欧洲
在欧洲（和其他大陆，但我没有在这些地方花足够的时间，所以不能为他们说话），大部分情况都不是这样的。在欧洲，即使是非常性别歧视的文化，也只有一半的文化驱动因素是相同的（性别歧视、宗教、同性恋恐惧症是一个常见的组合）。这仍然可能导致大量的暴力，但从统计学上看，这跟在美国发生的的强度和方式显然是不一样的。
特别是在欧洲更平等的地方，那些看起来很阳刚的男人有一些包括烹饪、编织、园艺、读书会等爱好被认为是正常的，或者在健身房打铁时播放爱莉安娜或任何现在出名的人的歌也不被觉得有什么不对。
当一个男人没有花太多精力（或任何东西）去向其他人“证明”自己的男子气概，就像没有安全感的青少年一样。你会有一种这个人“长大了”的感觉。
Violent misogyny comes out a lot more obviously when society actively tries to make society more equitable among genders. American misogyny is reactionary.
In a lot of societies beyond the United States, you have patriarchy explicitly upheld institutionally. Those men don't have to react to anything. Society is already built in their favor and they enjoy open privilege. The violence and misogyny is implicit. They rule, they hold the cards, they can ruin a woman whenever they feel like it. So what's to react to? They can kick back and enjoy the view.
当一个社会积极尝试使社会在两性之间更加公平时，暴力厌女症就会更明显地表现出来。美国的厌女症是反动的。
在美国以外的许多社会中，明确的父权制在制度上得到维护。那些男人不需要对任何事情做出反应。社会已经对他们有利，他们享有公开的特权。暴力和厌女症是隐藏着的。他们统治着，他们掌握着主动权，只要他们想，他们就能毁掉一个女人。那么，他们还用得着做什么反应呢？他们可以坐下来，享受美景。
All Hail Notorious RBG
I'd wager it has something to do with "real men don't cry" culture. Basically, men aren't taught how to properly address their emotions. So they inevitably lash out. But I think that the prence of violence in pop culture plays a part, too. The "cool guy" is always portrayed as taking what he wants and being somebody people fear and respect. So "violence is necessary to be powerful" becomes ingrained in culture.
我敢打赌，这与"真正的男人不会哭"的文化有关。基本上，男人没有被教导如何正确处理他们的情绪。所以他们不可避免地要发泄。但我认为，流行文化中暴力的盛行也起到了一定作用。“酷哥”总是被描绘成要去夺取他想要的东西，成为人们害怕和尊重的人。因此，"暴力是成为强者的必要条件"在文化中根深蒂固。
This is admittedly a slightly flippant comment, but perhaps we're seeing society dominated by a raft of adult men who saw Beauty and the Beast when they were children and completely missed the point that you're not supposed to idolise and emulate Gaston.
There was a very insightful post recently about how he's the most terrifying Disney villain. People fall for his charisma, boasting and physical prowess, but his character is utterly rotten and no-one seems to see it. And he's everywhere.
我承认这是一个略显轻率的评论，但也许我们看到的社会是由一群成年男子主导的，他们在小时候看过《美女与野兽》，完全没有意识到你不应该去崇拜和模仿加斯顿。
最近有一个非常有洞察力的帖子，说他（加斯顿）是最可怕的迪士尼反派。人们为他的魅力、自吹自擂和体格所倾倒，却无视了他的性格是腐朽的，似乎没有人看到这一点。而“他”无处不在。