为什么中国高铁那么牛，汽车却那么弱？
Why can China build a high-speed railway, but have no famous local brand car?
译文简介
网友：如果它是一个本地的汽车品牌，为什么一定要出名呢？在美国，人们唯一熟悉的汽车是在美国销售的汽车。你知道菲亚特500是什么吗？我怀疑你不知道。将大规模生产的汽车推向市场需要庞大的支持网络，因为这需要数千家经销商来销售和维护汽车.......
正文翻译
Why can China build a high-speed railway, but have no famous local brand car?
为什么中国高铁那么牛，汽车却那么弱？
为什么中国高铁那么牛，汽车却那么弱？
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Former System Engineer，BS from University of Chicago
If it is a local car brand, why should it be famous. The only cars that people in the US at least are familiar with are cars that are sold in the country. Like do you know what the Fiat 500 is. I doubt it. And to bring a mass-produced car to the market requires a massive support network since need thousands of dealerships to sell and maintain the car. Plus, the US is in love with these oversize cars, so much so that the major manufacturers in the US have almost stopped building cars and now build almost only SUVs and pickup trucks. The Asian brands got a foothold in the US because of the gas crisis. The only choice for an economic car to buy that was also easy on fuel was the Japanese cars, and Toyota and Honda took off because they had no American competition in the economy car market. We may be going into a similar period with the increase of gas prices to maybe over $10 a gallon. Then maybe there will be an opening for Chinese cars that are more economic.
如果它是一个本地的汽车品牌，为什么一定要出名呢？在美国，人们唯一熟悉的汽车是在美国销售的汽车。你知道菲亚特500是什么吗？我怀疑你不知道。将大规模生产的汽车推向市场需要庞大的支持网络，因为这需要数千家经销商来销售和维护汽车。此外，美国非常喜欢超大型汽车，以至于美国的主要制造商几乎都停止生产轿车，现在它们几乎只生产SUV和皮卡。由于天然气危机，亚洲品牌才得以在美国站稳脚跟。经济型汽车的唯一选择是日本汽车，而丰田和本田的崛起是因为他们在经济型汽车市场上没有美国的竞争对手。随着汽油价格上涨到每加仑10美元以上，我们可能会进入一个类似的时期。所以，也许更经济的中国汽车会有一个机会。
Here is one for you: Have you heard of Mahindra & Mahindra?
Mahindra & Mahindra is the largest manufacturer of tractors in India as well as in the world, also one of the largest vehicle manufacturers in the country with its major competitors Maruti Suzuki and Tata Motors. Mahindra Bolero, Mahindra Scorpio, Mahindra XUV500 and Mahindra Thar are the top flagship model of Mahindra in India.
看到美国人在帮助避免即将到来的气候危机方面做得如此之少，我感觉有点悲哀。他们仍然想开着比他们需要的大得多的车四处兜风。我们是旅鼠吗？
以下分享给你：你听说过Mahindra & Mahindra吗？
Mahindra & Mahindra是印度和世界上最大的拖拉机制造商，也是印度最大的汽车制造商之一，其主要的竞争对手是马鲁蒂铃木和塔塔汽车。Mahindra Bolero、Mahindra Scorpio、Mahindra XUV500和Mahindra Thar是Mahindra & Mahindra在印度的顶级旗舰车型。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Former Retired Inter Galactic Starship at The Galactic Federation Of Light，Lived in On and Above the Oblate Spheroid-planet Known as Earth
China is building, and continue to build lots of really good stuffs some of which they are already leading the world.
Additionally, China’s companies have been investing in many foreign companies like the below flying taxi by Germany’s Volocopter :
For 20 seconds, China's 'artificial sun' EAST achieved a peak temperature of 288 million degrees Fahrenheit, which is over ten times hotter than the sun.
The latest feat by Chinese scientists is a significant step in the country’s quest to unlock clean and limitless energy, with minimal waste products.
Keep tune folks for more amazing stuffs coming out of China and their foreign investments.
中国正在建造，并将继续建造许多非常好的东西，其中一些已经领先世界。
此外，中国的公司一直在投资许多外国公司，如德国Volocopter公司的飞行出租车：
持续了20秒：中国东部的“人造太阳”达到了最高温度2.88亿华氏度，比太阳的温度高出10倍。
中国科学家的最新壮举是该国寻求释放清洁和无限能源以及减少废物的重要一步。
请继续关注来自中国和它们在外国投资的更多令人惊叹的东西。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Married to a Shanghai native and fond of Chinese culture，Lives in Trondheim, Norway
It's not until recently, 30 years or so, that cars became common to own in China. As long as they wanted to drive fossil fuel cars, the choice of models was so big and the market so mature that it made little sense to carve out a niche Chinese brand. In stead they bought Volvo and started to make Volvo models that were tailored to Chinese preferences.
直到最近30年左右，汽车才在中国普及。如果他们想驾驶化石燃料汽车，车型的选择就太多了，中国的汽车市场已经如此成熟，以至于打造一个中国品牌几乎没有意义。取而代之的是，他们购买了沃尔沃，并开始生产符合中国偏好的沃尔沃车型。
Today the question can be turned around. How come the USA has only one global brand with decent electric cars, while China has NIO, BYD and Polestar, all soon to be household names in the west?
随着特斯拉的到来，一切都改变了。突然间，最高层决定将设计和制造电动汽车和公共汽车作为中国的优先事项。深圳市成为了一个出租车和公交车几乎完全电气化的试验场。
今天，这个问题可以反过来问：为什么美国只有一家像样的电动汽车全球品牌，而中国有蔚来、比亚迪和极星这些很快在西方家喻户晓的品牌？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Lives in China
In the era of traditional fuel vehicles, due to the large technological gap between China and the United States, Japan, and Germany, the automobile powerhouses, China cannot create an internationally renowned automobile brand.
However, with the rapid development of new energy vehicles, this situation will change.
If you pay attention to the Chinese auto market, you will know that BYD's new energy vehicles have sold more than 100,000 units per month for three consecutive months, far exceeding Tesla's sales in China.
在传统的燃油汽车时代，由于中国与汽车强国美国、日本和德国的技术差距较大，因此中国无法打造出国际知名的汽车品牌。
然而，随着新能源汽车的快速发展，这种情况将发生变化。
如果你关注中国的汽车市场，你会发现比亚迪的新能源汽车已经连续三个月每月销量超过10万辆，这远远超过了特斯拉在中国的销量。
According to the current development trend, as long as there are no major changes in BYD's operations, BYD will definitely become a world-renowned car brand in the future, just like China's smartphone Xiaomi, Huawei, OPPO, and vivo.
因此，比亚迪在资本市场非常受欢迎，其市值已超过1万亿元人民币，约合1500亿美元，仅次于特斯拉和丰田排名全球第三。
按照目前的发展趋势，只要比亚迪的运营没有发生重大变化，比亚迪未来一定会成为世界知名的汽车品牌，就像中国的智能手机品牌小米、华为、OPPO和VIVO一样。
The picture below shows the sales ranking of new energy vehicles in China in May. The top 11 are all local Chinese brands, and Tesla ranks 12th with sales of less than 10,000.
除了比亚迪，中国还有三个具有一定竞争力的新能源汽车品牌，分别是蔚来、小鹏和理想。但他们目前的销量还不高，每月约只有一万辆。
下图显示了5月份新能源汽车在中国的销量排名，前11名均为中国本土品牌，特斯拉以不到1万辆的销量排名第12位。
Bill Chen
, lives in Singapore
For both car and train, China pursued the cheaper solution.
This is the fuxing cr400. It is the world's fastest tracked train in operation at a sustained 350kmh. Its top speed is more than 400kmh.
无论是汽车还是火车，中国都在追求更便宜的解决方案。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
这是复兴号CR400，它是世界上运行速度最快的轮轨列车，平均时速350公里/小时，它的最高时速超过400公里/小时。
When China decided to get into high speed rail in a big way in the late 2000s, it decided to invite tenders for the earliest lines. The unprecedented contract size meant China drew competitive offers, which included technology transfer and localized adaptations.
事实证明，300是世界高速铁路界的一个神奇的数字。在复兴号上线之前，最先进的列车的运行速度为300公里/小时，而成熟的同级列车的运行速度为200-250公里/小时。
当中国在21世纪末决定大力发展高速铁路时，它决定对最早的线路进行招标。前所未有的合同规模意味着中国获得了具有竞争力的报价，其中包括技术转让和本地化改造。
Fundamentally, China couldn't buy what it needed. That's why they pursued a centralized model of development for the fuxing, building on technologies acquired from the foreigners.
然而，中国发现，这些公司不愿意出售和转让其先进的时速300公里以上的列车技术，而这些技术的溢价也很高。除此之外，中国发现国外的产品适合的纬度范围较窄，而中国的幅员辽阔，气候从沙漠到热带雨林应有尽有。
从根本上说，中国买不到它需要的东西，这就是为什么他们在从外国人那里获得技术的基础上，致力于集中开发复兴号。
至于汽车，中国可以买到最好的燃油车，因为外国人愿意卖给中国人。中国有许多国内合资企业为世界最大的乘用车市场服务，但它们顶级车型（如梅赛德斯S级和雷克萨斯）的生产仍在海外。可以预见的是，在高端市场上竞争非常困难，因此许多中国品牌的产品售价仍然处在预算领域。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
They have tech leadership in batteries, materials, medium voltage power delivery, AI and crucially, big data. There will be world-beating ev competition emerging from the Chinese market in the coming decade. Even the rural Chinese farmer is using 3-wheel flatbed EVs and electric scooters today, so the Chinese are already stepping into a green future.
Note: cars are sold in the millions, trains in the thousands. They are two ends of the economic paradigm.
我们必须记住，燃油车技术是一个夕阳产业，而中国人选择专注于电动汽车。
他们在电池、材料、中压电力传输、人工智能以及关键的大数据领域处于技术领先地位。未来十年，中国市场将出现世界一流的电动汽车竞争者。就连中国农村的农民现在也在使用三轮平板电动汽车和电动踏板车，因此中国人已经步入了绿色未来。
注：汽车销量以百万计，火车销量以千计，它们处在经济学范式的两端。
, Lawyer，Lives in Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India
Good Question
The reason for this is simply - Demand & Supply
When the Demand is high - Innovation and Technology develop very fast especially when the Supply is not readily Available.
When the Demand is not very high - Innovation and Technology develop on a much slower scale especially when a Supply is readily available.
这是个好问题。
原因很简单——需求和供给。
当需求量很大时，创新和技术的发展会非常快，尤其是当供应量不足时。
当需求不是很高的时候——创新和技术的发展速度要慢得多，尤其是当有现成的供应时。
Hence China needs more and more trains. This helps ensure that 1.40 Million workers can travel a day over distances of 15–90 Miles and come to work in Shenzhen or Shanghai and go back home rather than staying in the City and crowding it.
今天，中国必须确保其城市不会人口过剩，这意味着要确保
（a）郊区得到发展
（b）城市地区和郊区以尽可能快的速度连接起来
因此，中国需要越来越多的火车。这有助于确保140万工人每天可以旅行15-90英里，到深圳或上海工作，然后回家，而不是呆在拥挤的城市里。
中国不得不制造自己的火车，因为他们想要最高的速度和最优成本。最终，他们两者都得到了。中国以每英里铁路 255.7 万美元的建设成本击败了日本（377.4 万美元）或欧洲（515.4 万美元），并把时速提高了37英里/小时。这还没有算磁悬浮或超级高铁。
Cars were always seen as a Luxury to the Chinese
Initially China had their own Indigenous Make Cars
Later Demand did grow but Supply was readily available at Lowest Cost
You have Volkswagen, Toyota and many other companies flocking to China to manufacture cars for Export and for Domestic Sale.
These were Brands that had been around for 40–70 years or even more.
And the pricing was at its lowest.
So China never had the economic demand to create its own Car brand for a long time.
Even today most Chinese ICE Cars are merely for the Domestic Market because the supply is readily available.
现在来谈谈汽车。
汽车一直被中国人视为奢侈品。
最初，中国有自己的国产汽车。
后来中国对汽车的需求确实增长了。
于是，大众、丰田和许多其他公司蜂拥到中国生产出口和供内销的汽车。
由于这些品牌已经存在了40-70年甚至更长时间。
而且价格定到了它们的最低水平。
因此，长期以来，中国一直没有创造自己汽车品牌的经济需求。
即使在今天，大多数中国燃油车也仅仅面向国内市场。
Taxpayers would refuse to pay $ 3.775 Million per Mile for a Japanese Railroad when they could get a Chinese one for $ 1,250,000 less but they would not mind paying an extra$ 6000 to buy a Tesla over a Chinese Brand.
So China needs a revolutionary Technology or a Huge Breakthrough in Cost
事实是，汽车并不完全是一种公共交通工具，因此成本不是一个关键因素。
如果纳税人能以125万美元/英里的价格买到一条中国建造的铁路，他们会拒绝以377.5万美元/英里的价格购买一条日本建造的铁路。但他们不会介意多付6000美元购买一辆特斯拉而不是一个中国品牌。
因此，中国需要一种革命性的技术，或者在成本上取得巨大的突破。
So Either China needs a Battery which gives 1000 Kms Range or higher OR a Car that is equivalent to a 2.4L ICE but at 40% of the price and same quality
China has not yet reached this level.
Mainly because Demand has not yet been generated so far.
到目前为止，世界上只有一个汽车品牌在成本上实现了突破，从而打开了一个世界性的市场——丰田。
因此，要么中国能够提供1000公里或更高续航里程的电池，要么它们拥有质量相当于2.4升燃油车，但价格只有前者40%的汽车。
中国还没有达到这个水平。
这主要是因为到目前为止还没有产生这样的需求。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
And China know it that west and other countries have already advanced in Automobile Technology. They know if now they invested in Automobiles instead of 5G, AI or Chip technology they will lose badly to the West and West will have both Fruits. Chinese wants to be conqueror of new fields instead of Western Stronghold feilds like forts
中国知道西方和其他国家已经在汽车技术方面取得了进步。他们知道，如果现在他们投资汽车，而不是5G、人工智能或芯片技术，他们将输给西方，西方将收获所有这些成果。因此，中国人想成为新领域而不是西方像堡垒一样的领域的征服者。
No, it’s not necessary to have 1000Km range, 400-500Km is enough with fast charging availability. All the Chinese EV companies tend to pay more attention to domestic market, simply because: 1\\\\\\\\Chinese EV market is big enough. 2\\\\\\\\they’re kind of startup company, EV is new.
Yes, we have locally famous brand here. And I personlly chose them instead of Tesla. Voting with wallet, think about this.
不，没有必要拥有1000公里的续航里程，如果充电速度够快，400-500公里就足够了。所有中国电动汽车公司都倾向于更加关注国内市场，原因很简单：1 \\\\\\\\中国国内的电动汽车市场足够大。2\\\\\\\\他们是初创公司，而电动汽车是新事物。
是的，我们这里有本地的知名品牌，我个人就选择了它们而不是特斯拉。
, lives in China
A2A
Building railroads and trains are usually in the hands of governments. China being a good example. It is doing an amazing job because there are plenty of skilled engineers and plenty of money invested in the projects.
Car manufacturing is a different kind of animal. Most producers are JVs or local private investments. Latter one especially in the EV car industry. Chinese government lets a couple of manufacturers fight each other till 5 survive and slowly lowers subsidies.
China has already a handful car makers which are about to launch sales in the EU and US.
修建铁路和列车通常由政府负责，中国就是一个很好的例子。这是一项了不起的工作，因为有大量熟练的工程师和大量的资金投入到了这些项目中。
而汽车制造业是另一个物种，大多数生产商是合资企业或由当地私人投资，后者尤其适用于电动汽车行业。中国政府允许几家制造商相互竞争，直到有5家最终存活下来，并慢慢降低补贴。
中国已经有少数几家汽车制造商准备在欧盟和美国销售汽车。
, Born and raised by 2 traditional Chinese immigrants，Lives in Metro Manila, Philippines
First of all, “famous” is very subjective. It may not be famous to you, but it could be famous for people or groups. That being said, it takes time for a brand to build its reputation, Rome, or in this case, GM, Ford, Volkswagen, Tesla, and Toyota’s popularity didn’t happen overnight. It took years or even decades for them to get to where they are.
Some promising brands are gaining traction in China and abroad, though.
Some of my favorite manufacturers are NIO, XPeng, and Lynk & Co.
首先，“知名”是非常主观的。（这些品牌）可能对你来说不“知名”，但可能对别人或者别的团体来说很“知名”。话虽如此，一个品牌要建立自己的声誉需要时间，罗马（不是一天建成的），或者在这个例子中，通用、福特、大众、特斯拉和丰田的知名度不是一夜之间就出现的，他们花了数年甚至数十年才到达现在的位置。
不过，一些有前途的品牌在中国和国外正获得吸引力。
我最喜欢的中国汽车制造商有蔚来、小鹏和领克。
My guess is that the Chinese government has a different development strategy than the governments of capitalist countries that produce cars of world famous brands.
Generally speaking, it is about meeting the social needs of Chinese people, and not about making maximum profit by investors.
That is why China has focused on the development of public transport, and not individual transport, such as the US. That is, building a high-speed rail system and its complement to the public bus transport system.
我的猜测是，中国政府的发展战略与生产世界名牌汽车的资本主义国家不同。
一般来说，（它们的战略）是为了满足中国人民的社会需求，而不是为了让投资者获得最大利润。
这就是为什么中国更关注公共交通的发展，而不是像美国这样的个人交通。
World’s first smart bus with virtual tracks: How does it work?
所以西方有只有精英才能买得起的劳斯莱斯、宾利、梅赛德斯、法拉利、路虎揽胜等，而中国有每个人都用得起的子弹头列车和智能巴士。
世界上第一辆带有虚拟轨道的智能公交车：它是如何工作的？
, former Coolie at Erie-Lackwanna Railway
China currently has, or rather is, the largest auto market in the world. There are so many brands in China, both local and foreign, vying for a share of the market. China is encouraging EV’s and much efforts are going towards that direction by local players rather than ICE’s.
Just like in other auto manufacturing countries, for example, the USA, there will eventually be a shake out of the brands.
中国目前拥有，或者说是世界上最大的汽车市场。中国有如此多的本土品牌在和国外品牌争夺市场份额。中国正在鼓励电动汽车的发展，当地的汽车厂商正在朝着这个方向努力。
就像在其他汽车生产大国（如美国）一样，这些品牌最终会被淘汰。
The Japanese entered the US with low end cars and over decades moved upscale. The Koreans followed the Japanese model into the US, but did so in less time. The Chinese don’t need to follow the Japanese/Korean model into the US or rely on the large US market—they can achieve economies of scale in their own market.
中国品牌的汽车之所以没有进入美国市场，主要是因为中国国内和其他市场的优先级更高。与日本和韩国不同，由于国内市场的规模，中国汽车制造商不需要出口来维持生存。
日本人带着低端汽车进入美国，几十年后又转向了高端。韩国人效仿日本模式进入美国，但时间更短。中国人不需要效仿日本/韩国模式进入美国，也不需要依赖美国的大市场，他们可以在自己的市场上实现规模经济。
, former Senior Network Performance Analyst at Nokia (1998-2016)，Lives in Bukit Jalil, Malaysia1971–present
Yes there are famous local brands. But since not many are sold overseas as compared to the Japanese or European cars, they are not known outside of China. For example, Geely which owns Volvo, is famous in China but little known outside of China, while Volvo is known all over the world. The famous car brands in China are: SAIC, Chang An, BYD, Geely, Great Wall, BAIC, Dong Feng, amongst others. And China has the world’s biggest and most vibrant EV market, with local brands like NIO, XPeng, BYD and etc.
是的，中国有知名的本土品牌，但由于与日本或欧洲的汽车相比，中国的本土品牌在海外销售的汽车并不多，因此在中国以外的地区并不知名。例如，拥有沃尔沃的吉利在中国很有名，但在中国以外却鲜为人知，而沃尔沃则闻名于世。中国著名的汽车品牌有：上汽、长安、比亚迪、吉利、长城、北汽、东风等。中国拥有世界上最大、最具活力的电动汽车市场，拥有蔚来、小鹏、比亚迪等本土品牌。
, knows Mandarin Chinese
Because Chinese companies still have quite some catch up to do when it comes to design and development of their original car models, especially the fossil fueled ones.
There are some big Chinese local manufacturers but most of those are state owned enterprises and they all have joint ventures with globally famous manufactures such as Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, PSA, GM, Ford, Fiat and so on and they sell great in the Chinese domestic market. These manufacturers are trying to start their own brands but most of their models are simply not good enough comparing to models from foreign companies. You have some local best selling models such as the Wuling Hongguang but I honestly don’t see how that model is going to sell in developed markets. Great wall has their brand Haval set up here in Australia selling pickup trucks and SUVs and from time to time I can see some of these vehicles around.
When it comes to EV I think Chinese companies will have greater opportunities as it’s a newer playground that’s more friendly to new players.
因为中国公司在设计和开发其原始车型，特别是燃油车型时，仍有相当多的工作要做。
中国有一些大型的本土汽车制造商，但大多数都是国有企业，它们都与丰田、本田、大众、标致、通用、福特、菲亚特等全球知名制造商建立了合资企业，在中国国内市场上销量巨大。这些制造商正试图建立自己的品牌，但与外国公司的车型相比，他们的大多数车型都不够好。你们有一些在当地最畅销的车型，比如五菱宏光，但老实说，我不知道这种车型在发达市场会有什么销路。长城在澳大利亚创建了哈弗品牌，销售皮卡和SUV，我不时能看到这些车辆。
说到电动汽车，我认为中国公司将会有更大的机会，因为这是一个对新玩家更友好的新的市场。