网友讨论：为什么美国要禁止向中国出售芯片，这样做不是让中国科技更加独立自主了吗，中芯国际现在都可以制造7纳米芯片了
The Chinese SMIC has been mass producing 7nm chips and exporting over 100m of 7nm chips to foreign companies outside China so far. The US banning chips'' sale to China has made China be independent of the US. Why?
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网友讨论：为什么美国要禁止向中国出售芯片，这样做不是让中国科技更加独立自主了吗，中芯国际现在都可以制造7纳米芯片了
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网友讨论：为什么美国要禁止向中国出售芯片，这样做不是让中国科技更加独立自主了吗，中芯国际现在都可以制造7纳米芯片了
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This phenomenon is the exact replica of the US blocking of China from space technology. The effect has proven to be the reverse. China wouldn't have achieved her great advancement in space technology without the US act.
美国阻止中国发展半导体技术和当初阻止中国发展太空技术如出一辙。事实证明，这样做只会取得适得其反的效果。如果当初没有美国阻扰的话，中国的太空技术不会取得那么大的进展。
It’s just pure politician’s stupidity that have no economic and business sense.
China is already the world’s top chip designing country with the top 19 out of 20 fastest growing chip designing companies in the world. China itself is also the largest customer, the largest buyer for chips. Not just TSMC and Samsung, Intel, Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD, semiconductor and related manufacturing equipment makers like ASML, Canon, Nikon, Sony etc… biggest market is China.
All these companies were happily doing business with China and bring profits to the US investors.
这只能怪那些愚蠢的政客，他们没有经济和商业意识。
中国已经是世界顶级芯片设计国家了，发展速度最快的20家芯片设计企业中有19家来自中国。中国本身又是芯片最大的消费者和最大的买家。不仅仅是台积电，三星，英特尔，高通，英伟达，AMD的最大市场在中国，就连与半导体生产设备相关的制造商ASML，佳能，尼康和索尼等企业的最大市场同样也在中国。所有这些企业都乐于和中国做生意，这样才能为美国投资者带来利益
从中国角度来说，如果这些企业不想和中国合作，那么中国可以自己生产所有的一切，实际上现在的芯片80%到90%都不是3纳米和5纳米制程的，苹果推动3纳米和5纳米芯片更多的是为了自己产品的差异化，以便从痴迷于苹果手机和平板电脑的消费者手中获得更多的利润。
Absolutely correct. Very soon US & the world will be begging China for all sizes of chips. Mass production will make them cheaper too.
US is like the school yard bully. All BRAWN, NO BRAIN.
说的很对，很快美国和世界要向中国乞求芯片了。大规模量产会让它们变得更加便宜。
美国就像校园恶霸，只有肌肉没有大脑。
“All BRAWN, NO BRAIN.”
Yet still has the best technology)) Do you not see a contradiction here?
只有肌肉，没有大脑
但美国拥有最好的技术，你不觉得这很矛盾吗？
It means the US engineers have brains but the US political elites have none and their actions will probably lead to China's semiconductor industry overtaking Silicon Valley and even to its demise. Instead of a win-win collaboration with the biggest market, the US hegemonic empire embarked on a win-lose suppressive containment of China's technology which is going to backfire.
China is no Toshiba or Japan which is still under US military occupation and US can't force China to Sign the Plaza Accord
这说明美国的工程师有大脑，但美国的政治精英没有，他们的行为可能会让中国的半导体产业超过硅谷，甚至会让美国的半导体产业走向灭亡。霸道的美帝国不愿和最大的市场合作，相反他们对中国的技术发展采取的是一种你死我活式的压制，这最终会导致适得其反。
中国不是东芝，也不是依然处于美国军事占领下的日本，美国无法逼迫中国签订《广场协议》
“US political elites have none" — yes, I agree to an extent.
If China think it can overtake the US — it is welcome to try. Maybe it can, maybe it can't.
Presently, however, saying that China is going to have the best technology is just funny)
“美国政治精英没有大脑“，是的，某种程度上我认为你说的没错
如果中国认为自己可以超过美国，那么欢迎他去尝试一下吧。或许他可以做到，或许不能。
但目前要说中国将拥有最好的技术是可笑的。
You think it is funny because you are unaware of the research in alternatives going on intensively in China. In May 2020, a paper on carbon-based semiconductors was published by Beijing University in the well-known American journal Science, in which the extraction and assembly method of "high-density carbon nanotubes" was mentioned, and many people even called this achievement - the basis for the industrialization of carbon-based semiconductors on a large scale. This means that the carbon nanotubes extracted with this method can be used to make chips.
At present, the material used to make chips is silicon-based, but the carbon-based chips made by carbon nanotubes have more advantages in cost, performance and power consumption compared with traditional silicon-based. Moreover, one of the most outstanding aspects of carbon-based chips is that its performance with 28nm process is comparable to the current mainstream 7nm silicon-based chips, so we can get the effect of the world's most advanced EUV by just using 28nm EUV.
China has also achieved the industry's top level in the extraction technology of carbon-based semiconductors.
你认为好笑是因为你不知道中国正在密集的进行替代性的研究。2020年5月在美国知名杂志《科学》上，北京大学刊登了一篇关于碳基半导体的论文，文中提到了“高密度碳纳米管”的提取和组装方法，很多人更是将这一成果称为——碳基半导体进入规模工业化的基础，也就是说利用这个方法提取的碳纳米管，可以用来制取芯片。
目前制取芯片的材料是硅基，而碳纳米管制取的碳基芯片，相比于传统硅基在成本、性能和功耗上更加具有优势。而且碳基芯片最突出的一个地方就是，28纳米制程的碳基芯片与目前主流7纳米硅基芯片的性能相当，所以我们只需用28纳米的光刻机，便可以获得全球最先进EUV光刻机的效果。
中国在碳基半导体的提取技术上，也已经做到了行业顶尖水平。
“You think it is funny because you are unaware of the research in alternatives going on intensively in China.”
Nah, I think it's funny because “the world" is also doing some research. And competition is a good thing.
不，我认为这很有趣，因为世界也在做一些研究。而且相互竞争是一件好事。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
But AFAIK, China cannot buy the latest lithography machines. So it will take them years to catch up with other countries.
但据我所知，中国买不到最新的光刻机，所以他们还要数年时间才能赶上其他国家。
The fact that China is literally challanging the West even when sanctioned is already an achievement.
中国在被制裁的情况下还能挑战西方就已经是一项成就了
Actually, China flies 1970’s Russian Space tech. It has merely copied what others did decades earlier without achieving anything new.
It has done so while 600 Million Chinese Citizens live below the poverty line with monthly incomes of 140 USD or less.
实际上中国使用的还是上世纪70年代的俄罗斯技术。他们只是在重复别人几十年前就已经做过的事情而已，并没有取得任何新的成就。
而与此同时，..六亿....，每月收入只有140美元或者更少。
Has the United States or Russia ever landed on the back side of the moon? Have any other countries landed on the moon besides China, the United States, and Russia?
美国或者俄罗斯有登陆月球背面吗？除了中国美国俄罗斯以外，还有其他国家登陆过月球吗？
Chinese government lifted over 600 million people out of poverty. A great achievement , and as a human being I celebrate that, as anyone with a right mind.
Just 40 years ago, China was a poor country. But they worked hard to achieve what they are today.
If everything is fake, then why the US is acting Hysterical. To the level that they use Mafia-style dirty tricks to attack, accuse, creating conspiracy theories, bad-mouthing, threatening other countries to stop doing business with Chinese tech companies, sending aircraft carriers and war vessels constantly to provoke, forming military and intelligence alliances, set up hundred of military bases around,… to contain China.
Who on earth wishes others to stop or slow down progress and development. A decent person don't have that kind of heart. Think mate, think .
中国政府让六亿多中国人摆脱了贫困，这是一个伟大的成就。作为一个人，作为一个头脑正常的人，我要为此表示祝贺。在四十年以前，中国还是一个贫穷的国家，但他们努力工作才有了今天的成就。
如果中国的发展都是假的，那么为什么美国要表现的如此歇斯底里。甚至到了使用黑手党式的肮脏伎俩来攻击，指责中国，制造阴谋论，诽谤中国，还威胁其他国家不要和中国高科技企业做生意，而且还不断的派航母和军舰来挑衅中国，为了压制中国，美国还组建了军事情报联盟，在中国周边设立了上百个军事基地。
究竟是谁在希望别人停止或放慢发展的脚步。一个正派的人是不会有这样的想法的。想想吧，伙计。
I'm actually quoting China Daily
我只是在引用《中国日报》而已
Doesn't America have its own problems? Mass shootings occur regularly in America, the United States consumes 60% of the world's drugs each year, and homelessness is everywhere.
难道美国就没有自己的问题吗？美国社会经常发生大规模枪击，美国每年要消费全世界60%的毒品，美国无家可归的人随处可见。
the number of people lifters out of absolute poverty by UN standards in China is already motte than the whole population of USA. Of course per capita income is small in China as compared to the US and don’t forget the US has the privilege of limitless printing the dollars but has the highest national debt.
按照联合国的标准，中国脱离绝对贫困的人口数量要比美国总人口还要多。当然，和美国比，中国人均收入依然较低，但不要忘了美国拥有无限印刷美元的特权，但美国国债却是世界最高。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Only shows you know nothing of China and Chinese. 800m Chinese by the coasts and on the plains are already middle class or rich, and China is world no 1 markets because of them. Most of that 600m still poor are in rural areas in the mountains harder to develop. They can get urban income if they leave the hills.
这只能证明你对中国和中国人一无所知。生活在中国沿海和平原地区的八亿中国人已经有了中产阶级或富裕的生活，正因如此，中国才成为了世界最大的市场。6亿贫困人口中，大多数生活在难以发展的山区农村地区。如果他们离开山区，他们也可以获得城市里的高收入。
The system makes it impossible to think beyond the next election cycle. So when Trump did the banning what did Trump care? It would be Joe’s (heh) responsibility to clean up the mess.
美国的体制使得他们无法思考下一个选举周期以后的事情。所以当特朗普下达禁令时，他不需要担心什么，因为清理烂摊子是拜登的责任。
Not long ago I got into a heated discussion on Quora with some China haters and hi-tech guys who thinks China cannot survive the ban on sale of EUV machine.
It's not even up to three years and the Chinese are bulldozing through the obstacles to progress! What a testament to human indomitable spirit.
不久之前我在quora上与一些讨厌中国的人和高科技人士进行了一番激烈的讨论，他们认为中国无法在EUV光刻机禁令下生存下来。
甚至还不到三年，中国就铲除了前进的障碍。这是对人类不屈不挠精神的一种证明。
bulldozing? they have DUV, cannot import EUV, and it’s unknown whether they can produce that locally. meanwhile, TSMC and others are 2–3 gens further on
铲除了所有前进的障碍？他们有DUV，但无法进口EUV，他们自己是否能够生产EUV光刻机尚不得而知。与此同时，台积电和其他半导体厂商的芯片制程要领先大陆两到三代。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
They can and they are doing it. That is producing 7nm chips.
TSMC et al to be 2 gen ahead but SMIC and others are playing catch ups. No shame in that either.
Anyone who works hard can achieve success and make progress even in the face of seemingly insurmountable obstacles place in their part by enemies of progress.
他们能做到，他们正在这样做。那就是他们正在生产7纳米的芯片。
台积电的确领先两代，但中芯国际和其他厂商正在追赶，这一点也不可耻。
即便是面对领先你的敌人给你设下了看似不可逾越的障碍，只要努力任何人都能成功跨越取得进步。
You are right Adesina. That's the spirit. Neccessity is said to be the mother of Inventions.
你说的对，这就是精神的力量。需求是创新之母
Stop being delusional, China is 1–2 decades behind on chip technology and it will get even wider. Technology development is relied on commercial success, ASML has a huge lead company in the field and the top 2 chip makers (Samsung, TSMC) in the worlds are ASML’s shareholders which pretty much guarantee its dominance leading edge for decades to come.
不要妄想了，中国在芯片技术上落后十到二十年，而且差距还会继续拉大。技术发展依赖于商业成功，ASML在技术领域拥有巨大的领先优势，而且世界头部两大芯片制造厂商（三星和台积电）都是ASML的股东，这几乎保证了ASML在未来几十年的优势。
When did China mass produce 7nm chips?
中国7纳米芯片是什么时候开始生产的
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Since 10/2021. SMIC has been quiet about it. They just make it and sell it.
SMIC has been quietly making 7nm chips for almost a year now and the West is just finding out.
中国7纳米芯片从2021年10月开始生产。中芯国际一直没有对外发布公告，只一心生产和销售。
中芯国际悄悄生产7纳米芯片已经有近一年的时间，西方直到现在才刚刚发现。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
To be fair, this tactic worked for China.If China had as little resources as say Japan or other small and poor countries, then China would not have the sheer momentum and margins to muscle through obstacles either.
老实说，这种战术对中国是有效的。如果中国是一个像日本或其他又小又弱的国家的话，那么就不会有充足的动力和利润去克服障碍了。