网友讨论：日本经济失去的四十年
The Economy of Japan: how a Superpower FELL from Grace in Four Decades
译文简介
网友：四十年来几乎一直处于经济危机中的国家现在依然还是世界上最富裕的国家之一。他们在上世纪80年代一定非常的富裕。
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网友讨论：日本经济失去的四十年
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A country that has been in constant economic crisis for almost 4 decades now and still among one of the richest countries in the world. They must have been insanely rich back in the 80s.
四十年来几乎一直处于经济危机中的国家现在依然还是世界上最富裕的国家之一。他们在上世纪80年代一定非常的富裕。
Hence why the US sanctioned them
这就是美国要制裁他们的原因
Japan's GDP/capita was higher than US and all of Europe (except Switzerland obviously) at late 80s until 90s.
上世纪80年代后期到90年代，日本的人均gdp要比美国和欧洲都要高（除瑞士以外）。
As an economic colony of USA, Japan have to surrender in the digital competition, Japan give up the leadership in semiconductor field voluntarily.
作为美国的经济殖民地，日本不得不在数字竞争中投降，日本主动放弃了半导体领域的领导地位。
Their wealth hasn't declined much. They're just stagnant.
他们的财富没有下降很多，他们只是停滞不前而已
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It’s not “one of the richest countries”, their GDP is high but so is their national debt, which is the highest in the world at 253% debt to GDP ratio. The more they make, the higher they’re in debt. It’s almost like you have nothing and borrow a million dollars then call yourself a millionaire.
日本现在不是世界上最富裕的国家之一，他们的gdp很高，但他们的国家债务同样也很高，日本债务占gdp的比例达到了235%，是世界上债务占gdp比例最高的国家。他们赚的越多，他们的债务就越高。这就像是一个一无所有的人借了百万美元后声称自己是百万富翁一样。
Japan was rich in80s?
Ridiculous.
I still remember 80s Japan and so many people were working low wage.
日本上世纪80年代很富裕？
这种说法是荒谬的。
我依然记得上世纪80年代的时候日本很多人工资都很低。
it is because of the ageing population. The elders are rich not the young people.
因为人口老龄化，年老的人很富裕，但年轻人却很穷
It hasn't been in decline since then. It's just been stagnant. They're about as rich now as they were in the 90s and are still richer than they were in the '80s
自那以后日本就没有下滑过，他们只是停滞不前。他们现在和上世纪90年代一样富裕，和上世纪80年代相比，他们现在要更加富裕一些。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Japan is a net creditor
日本是一个净债权国。
yet the salary here is still low
但日本的工资依然较低
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
rich ??? The older generation is rich not young ones they are heavily indebted
富裕？日本老一代人是富裕的，但年轻人却不是，他们负载累累。
Their products are still damn good. Whoever buys Japanese once, tends to keep buying.
他们的产品依然非常的好，无论是谁买过一次日本商品后，就会接下来继续买。
I remember back in the 80s, some of the richest people in the world were Japanese and their property prices were insane.
我记得上世纪80年代世界上最富有的一些人是日本人，他们的地产价格非常的夸张。
the real reason is the plaza accord, which destroyed japans economy
摧毁日本经济的真正原因是《广场协议》
the key is....... culture
关键是文化
Ask your average Japanese whether they think they are in a crisis. I'm sure many Americans wish they had the price stability that Japan has.
问问普通日本人，他们是否认为自己正处于危机之中。我肯定很多美国人希望他们的物价可以像日本那样稳定。
They were ahead of everybody in the 80s
在上世纪80年代，日本领先所有人
Plaza Accord. Japan has an upperbound of development; otherwise, they would be punished. Vassals should never surpass their master.
《广场协议》。日本的发展是有上限的。否则他们就会受到惩罚。附属国不能超过他们的宗主国。
"There are 4 types of economies: Developed, undeveloped, Japan and Argentina" - Simon Kuznets
西蒙·史密斯·库兹涅茨说过：世界上有四种经济体：发达经济体，不发达经济体，日本和阿根廷。
I'm argentinian :,(
We got 50 years of economic stagnation, high stagflation, and the most volatile economy of the world
我是阿根廷人，我们的经济停滞了五十年，严重滞涨，是世界上最不稳定的经济体
Argentinian here, there are countries that are worse than us for sure. Don't be dumb.
阿根廷人在此，别说傻话了，肯定有国家比我们更加的糟糕。
@CrisHealing [VTuber] nobody said that Argentina is the worst, love
没有人说阿根廷是最差的
Uncle Sam has Japan's family jewels in a tight grip.
山姆大叔牢牢控制着日本家里头的财富
Can we include the US on this list. I believe inflation in the US in 2022 will reach 10%. Then the everything bubble will pop!
可以在名单上加上美国吗？我相信美国2022年的通货膨胀率将会达到10%。然后所有泡沫都会破裂。
Kuznets full quote goes "There are four kinds of countries: developed countries, underdeveloped countries, Japan — nobody knows why it grows — and Argentina — nobody knows why it doesn't."
库兹涅茨的原话是“世界上有四种国家：发达国家，不发达国家，日本—没有人知道为什么它会发展起来，还有阿根廷—没有人知道为什么它就是发展不起来”
Keep in mind that Japan's "fall" was from 2nd to 3rd place, and even if they fell to 4th or 5th, they'd still be a highly-developed, rich economy with high living standards and a high GDP per capita.
请记住，日本的下滑是从第二名下滑到了第三名，即便他们下滑到了第四名或第五名，他们都依然还是一个高度发达，有着极高生活水平和人均gdp的富裕经济体。
china ,usa , even russia has more money, japan is too small and dont really like anybody esle , soo they lose
中国美国甚至俄罗斯都比日本更加富裕，日本太小了，他们不喜欢其他人，所以他们输了。
Hector R Russia doesn't have as much money as Japan.
俄罗斯没有日本那么富裕
@Aristocles russia could wipe japan off the map in 3 hours what are you talking about
你在说什么，俄罗斯可以在三小时内把日本从地图上抹去。
@Hector R Russia has nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean it's rich.
俄罗斯有核武器，但这并不意味着它是一个富裕的国家。
@Hector R Russia rank 11th in the world based on GDP compared to 3rd place Japan. Japan 5.06 trillion, Russia, 1.48 trillion. Japan's economy is more than three times the size of Russia's!
俄罗斯gdp排名世界第十一，日本排名第三。日本的gdp有5.06万亿美元，俄罗斯只有1.48万亿美元。日本经济规模是俄罗斯的三倍多。
@Hector R Russia? poor country whose national GDP is smaller than Tokyo city.
俄罗斯？它是一个贫穷的国家，它的gdp连东京都比不过。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You missed few points: Japan missed digital revolution train.
1. Japan is slow to improve worker productivity using advanced IT/network technology.
2. They were slow to invest in growing digital industry like semiconductor, display, smartphone and software.
3. Advent of strong competitors like South Korea, China and even Taiwan.
4. Low worker wage and long work hours, which led to low consumer spendings and low fertility.
你还有几点没有说到：日本错过了数字革命的列车
1日本在利用先进信息技术/网络技术来提高工人生产力方面进展缓慢
2日本在投资显示器，半导体，智能手机和软件等数字行业时反应迟缓
3韩国，中国甚至台湾地区等强大对手的出现
4工资低，劳动时间长，这导致了低消费和低生育率
one word. Plazza accord.
四个字可以概括：广场协议
Wrong! The cause of their fall is the Plaza Accord of 1985 imposed by the US because it could not compete with Japan and Germany
错了，日本衰落的原因在于美国在1985年强迫他们签订了《广场协议》，因为美国无法和德国日本竞争
Lower wage and long work hours isn't the reason for low fertility rate.
导致低生育率的原因不在于低工资和长工作时间。
US castrated Japan with the Plaza Accord and then took away its semi conductor industry.
美国用《广场协议》阉割了日本，然后夺走了日本的半导体产业。
Japanese companies work more upstream in the semiconductor industry I think e.g. they monopolise the market for photoresist chemicals, iPhone camera lenses are made by Sony while their screens are made by Sharp
我认为日本企业在半导体行业中处于更为上游的位置，例如他们垄断了光刻胶化学品的市场，苹果手机摄像头时索尼制造的，而屏幕是夏普制造的。
@Money & Macro There is one big difference between Japan and Germany - backbone of the Japan's economy are those few giant corporations, but backbone of Germany's economy are many small private owns companies.
日本和德国有很大的区别，日本经济的支柱在于少数几家巨型企业，而德国经济的支柱在于许多小型私人企业。
Actually, Japan was the pioneer in semiconductors and display technologies. Japan lost its edge due to a later METI philosophy that the government should get out of planning and subsidizing industries. Japan subsequently lost its edge to Taiwan and South Korea.
实际上日本是半导体和显示器技术方面的先驱。日本失去优势是因为后来日本经济贸易产业省的理念导致的，他们认为政府不应该对产业进行规划和补贴。日本随后就失去了对台湾地区和韩国的优势。
You forget that when these tech were growing japan population was just too old to adapt
你忘了，当这些技术在蓬勃发展的时候，日本人口都已经太老了，他们已经无法适应了
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
And still Japan has a robust economy, and TOKYO is still the richest city in the world watch the GDP
日本经济依然强劲，东京依然是日本最富裕的城市，看看gdp就知道了
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I am a IT professional and we have lot of Japanese clients and I was shocked to see how rudimentary applications and websites were of our Japanese clients.
Even phone apps were simply weblxs for their main websites for long.
They missed the IT and Digital bus for sure
我是专门从事信息技术行业工作的人，我们有很多的日本客户，看到日本客户的应用程序和网站如此简陋让我感到很震惊。长期以来，手机应用程序不过就是为主要网站提供网站链接的工具而已。他们无疑错过了信息技术和数字经济的列车。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I am Japanese and your point is so right.
I have been living in overseas for more than 2 decades and 20 years ago, people used to tell me “Japan is so high tech. Cars electronics and technologies” fast forward 20 years, all I hear now days is “Cherry blossom was so pretty”.
我是日本人，你说的非常正确。
我在海外生活了20多年，20年前，人们常常和我说“日本是那么的高科技。日本汽车，日本的电子产品和技术都是那么的先进”。快进20年，我现在听到的都是“日本樱花非常的美丽”
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The strange thing is, Japan hasn’t been doing great,but it hasn’t been doing terribly, either.
No wage increase, but no price hike, either. Very low unemployment rate (less than 3%). The crime rate has been getting lower during the “lost” decades actually.
奇怪的是，日本表现一直没有那么好，但也没有那么糟糕。
工资虽然没有提高，但物价也没有上升。日本失业率非常低（不到3%）。在失去的数十年里，日本的犯罪率实际上还下降了。
I've been living in Japan for 12 years. And the economic health of the average Japanese worker has gotten worse. Poverty in Japan is a growing problem that no one talks about.
我在日本生活了12年，日本普通工人的经济健康状况一直在恶化，日本贫困问题日益严重，但却无人讨论。
yup, its not getting any better either.
its especially hard for children and single mothers
是的，贫困问题没有任何好转
对于孩子和单亲母亲来说生活尤其困难。
A population decline may make things like housing more affordable. The Japanese workplace does seem quite rigid compared to elsewhere and there is a lot more pressure on Japanese workers.
人口下滑或许会让像房子这样的东西变得更加便宜。但和其他国家相比，日本职场似乎相当的僵化。，日本工人的压力也更大一些。
Don't worry, the average American doesn't fare any better. The middle class in the US has been eroding over the past decades. The wealth gap is expanding. The advent of AI ill only exacerbate this economic inequality. Poverty is not discussed much in the US either.
不要担心，普通美国人的情况也好不到哪里去。在过去的几十年里，美国中产阶级的数量一直在减少。贫富差距正在扩大。人工智能的出现只会加剧这种经济不平等。在美国，人们也很少讨论贫困问题。
Reasons of Japan's stagnation: Aging Population, High Inflation, Decreasing Workforce, and High Household Debt etc. The US economy still had room to grow while Japan's economy is nearly at it's max.
日本经济停滞的原因:人口老龄化、高通胀、劳动力减少、家庭债务高企等。美国经济仍有增长空间，而日本经济已接近峰值。