QA问答：在美国，一个人怎样才能摆脱贫困？最穷的是非洲裔美国人，这是真的吗？
How can a person get out of poverty in the US? Is it true that the poorest pockets are found among African Americans?
译文简介
网友：以下是一个人如何摆脱贫困的方法，你可以感谢布鲁金斯学会（一个左倾的智库）和传统基金会（一个右倾的智库）。他们得出的结果是一样的。无论种族、宗教、性别、性取向、性别认同、财富状况等等，这都是能起到摆脱贫困的作用的。需要以下步骤。找到一份工作，并保持这份工作......
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在美国，一个人怎样才能摆脱贫困？最穷的是非洲裔美国人，这是真的吗？
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Here’s how one can raise themselves out of poverty, and you can thank the Brookings Institute (a left-leaning think tank) and the Heritage Foundation (a right-leaning one). Their results were the same.
This works regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identification, wealth status, etc. It requires steps.
Get employed and maintain employment.
Wait until you are past 21 and married to have kids.
That’s it! The poorest pockets are those who don’t follow those steps.
以下是一个人如何摆脱贫困的方法，你可以感谢布鲁金斯学会（一个左倾的智库）和传统基金会（一个右倾的智库）。他们得出的结果是一样的。
无论种族、宗教、性别、性取向、性别认同、财富状况等等，这都是能起到摆脱贫困的作用的。需要以下步骤。
找到一份工作，并保持这份工作。
等你过了21岁，结婚生子。
就是这样！最穷的人是那些不遵循这个步骤的人。
True but the simplification ignores the fact that for members of most of the groups you listed find step one to be very difficult.
但这种简化的步骤忽略了一个事实，即对于您列出的大多数人来说，找一份工作并保持下去是非常困难的。
That’s not true. Jobs are everywhere and all you have to do to keep them is show up on time and do the job you agreed to when you were hired.
At first, it’s probably not the job you would choose if you had a choice, but that’s irrelevant. You have to get over that and do it anyway. If you do that, you can improve yourself and make progress toward the job you prefer.
并非如此，工作到处都是，你要做的就是准时上班，完成刚入职时同意做的工作。
如果一开始，如果你可以选择的话，你可能不会选择这份工作，但这无关紧要。不管怎样，你都得克服这一点。如果你选择了这份工作，你就可以提高自己，朝着你喜欢的工作前进。
You’re pretty racist on you Dave? Race is in fact meaningless in this discussion unless you’re so weak-willed that you always want to blame others for your misfortune
你是种族主义者吗，戴夫？种族在这个讨论中实际上是没有意义的，除非你意志薄弱，总是想把自己的不幸归咎于别人
Race is irrelevant when applying for a job, in facr, in some places, not being white gives people a leg up due to affirmative action policies. The same can be said or most handicapped people. There are always going to be exceptions.
Potential
Not everyone gets to be an astronaut when they grow up. As a bright-eyed kid, you once harbored dreams of a future in space. But face it, the only moon you’ll ever step foot on will belong to passed-out, drunken, former bright-eyed aspiring astronaut losers who are, unfortunately for you.
在申请工作时，种族是无关紧要的，事实上，在一些地方，由于平权行动政策，非白人会给人们带来优势，大多数残疾人也可以这么说。当然总会有例外的，
潜力
不是每个人长大后都能成为宇航员的。作为一个眼睛明亮的孩子，你曾经怀有在太空中生活的梦想。但面对现实吧，你能踏上的唯一一颗月球将属于那些醉醺醺的，曾经雄心勃勃的宇航员失败者，对你来说很不幸。
That’s a very nice world you live in.
你生活的世界真美好。
What's that supposed to mean? I'm just stating facts. Not everyone gets their ideal job. You can look for what you can find, and have some kind of income, or you can sit at home with no income”holding out for a management position”. It all comes down to choices. People can choose to better themselves, instill on their children the importance of an education, or they can blame others for their choices.
这意味着什么？我只是在陈述事实。不是每个人都能得到理想的工作。你可以寻找你能找到的工作，并获得某种收入，或者你可以坐在家里，没有收入“等待一个管理职位”。这一切都归结于选择。人们可以选择让自己变得更好，向孩子灌输教育的重要性，或者他们可以将自己的选择归咎于他人。
I think that it’s wonderful that you live in a world where discrimination doesn’t exist, everybody competes on a fair field. That is truly wonderful congratulations. I live in Texas where we call people named Gonzales wetbacks and illegals, even if the family has lived here for 250 years. I like your world better.
我认为生活在一个没有歧视的世界里是一件很棒的事，每个人都在一个公平的环境中竞争。这真是太棒了。我住在德克萨斯州，我们管叫Gonzales的人叫偷渡者和非法移民，即使他们一家已经在这里生活了250年。我更喜欢你的世界。
Dave, I have as many Mexican family in the U.S. as in Mexico. And every single one of them has been able to become a homeowner with a stable job and at least one college degree. Don’t use discrimination as an excuse. It dishonors you and your ancestors no matter where you are from. And the thousands of successful men and women of every race and language who have succeeded and are succeeding in the U.S. show what a lame excuse it is.
戴夫，我在美国的墨西哥家庭和在墨西哥的一样多。他们中的每一个人都有能力成为一个有稳定工作和至少拥有一个大学学位的房主。不要以歧视为借口。它羞辱了你和你的祖先，无论你来自哪里。成千上万来自不同种族、不同语言的成功人士在美国取得了成功，而且正在取得成功，这只能表明这是一个多么蹩脚的借口。
Good for them. Congratulations.
对他们有利，祝贺你。
I have lived in Texas since school bussing was started. Discrimination in the work place does not exist here to any meaningful or substantive degree. That died a slow death in the 1970’s.
If you want a contract doing work for a government agency or bidding for a government contract, you had best be a minority or work for a minority owned company.
We have this weird thing here where leftists claim that they are surrounded by racists, but they only hang out with other leftists. Conservatives think racism is dead, but mostly hang with other conservatives or people who don’t discuss politics.
If you ask a Texan for a modern manifestation of discrimination, all they can point to as an actual event involves government policies like college admission preference and affirmative action. Apparently, the way to fix discrimination in the past is to discriminate the other direction today.
The simple fact is that to even be falsely accused of being racist in Texas today is a serious problem. Nobody engages in discrimination in the work place because even a hint of racial animosity by a white person causes social ostracism and can cost your job without even a shred of evidence.
自从学校开始提供校车服务以来，我一直住在德克萨斯州。工作场所的歧视在这里并不存在任何有意义或实质性的程度。这种歧视在70年代慢慢消失了。
如果你想要一份为政府机构工作的合同，或者投标政府合同，你最好是少数族裔，或者在少数族裔拥有的公司工作。
这里有个奇怪的现象，左翼分子声称他们周围都是种族主义者，但他们只和其他左翼分子交往。保守派认为种族主义已死，但他们大多与其他保守派人士或不讨论政治的人一起聚会。
如果你问一个德州人歧视的现代表现形式，他们所能指出的实际事件都与政府政策有关，比如大学入学优先权和平权行动。
很明显，解决过去歧视问题的方法就是今天歧视另一个方向。
简单的事实是，在今天的德克萨斯州，即使被错误地指责为种族主义者也是一个严重的问题。没有人会在工作场所进行歧视，因为白人哪怕流露出一丝种族仇恨，都会导致社会排斥，甚至会在没有任何证据的情况下让你丢掉工作。
Nobody gets their ideal job. You got to start at the bottom and work yourselves up. You got to take advantage of the free education you get even in republican states, build up your skills make yourself valuable and attractive to an employer. Lot’s of people make it. There are some exceptions of course, such as the chronically debilitated. But the people who can’t make it in the U.S. do not fail for lack of opportunity.
没有人能得到理想的工作。你得从基层做起，努力工作。即使是在共和党州，你也要利用免费教育的优势，提高技能让自己对雇主有价值，有吸引力。很多人都成功了。当然，也有一些例外，比如那些长期虚弱的人。但是那些在美国不能成功的人不会因为缺少机会而失败。
Yes, it is. I hope you will join us in it!
是的，确实如此，我希望你能加入我们！
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Odd as it probably seems to you, I prefer reality.
也许你会觉得奇怪，但我更喜欢现实。
Hasn’t it become apparent that your reality is only your reality No one else here has witnessed your reality. Maybe you should take another look.
很明显，你的现实就是你的现实，这里没有其他人见证过你的现实。也许你该再看看现实。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
None of my comments mention or allude to race.
My last comment stands - excluding non-typical situations, my comments are well founded.
我的评论中没有提到或暗示种族问题。
我最后的评论是——排除非典型情况，我的评论是有根据的。
But you pulled the race card first.
但你先打出了种族牌
The most successful cultures are those that prioritize the education of their children. When that's Asians it becomes a problem because you can no longer claim minority bias or racism. This is why we should discuss everything on the basis of culture and achievement and nothing on the basis of race. There are plenty of people from every culture that prioritize the education of their children and that should be the gold standard instead of a cultural secret.
最成功的文化是那些优先考虑孩子教育的文化。如果是亚洲人，那就有问题了，因为你不能再声称有少数族裔偏见或种族歧视了。这就是为什么我们应该在文化和成就的基础上讨论一切，而不是在种族的基础上讨论一切的原因。每一种文化都有很多人把孩子的教育放在首位，这应该是黄金标准，而不是文化秘密。
The single most successful immigrant group in the US, in terms of education and financial success are immigrants from Nigeria. They're actually more successful than Asians as a group. Why aren't they held back by this rampant racism?
就教育和经济成就而言，美国最成功的移民群体是来自尼日利亚的移民。作为一个整体，他们实际上比亚洲人更成功。为什么他们没有被这种猖獗的种族主义所阻止？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I understand your point but we should not downplay or disregard the racist policies that have contributed to perpetuated poverty.
我理解你的观点，但我们不应轻视或忽视导致长期贫困的种族主义政策。
I understand your point - BUT race based policies should be down played.
Up and down are relative
Racial issues are not to be ignored - but is counter productive if the are up played
We need to eliminate - not create race based policies
Dennis just explained and you agreed that race is not the primary causal factor.
So why is it up played as such
So ask why is race/ racism being promoted as such?
Far left full socialist political agenda anyone?
Identification and unification of the oppressed possibly?
So IF YOU really care about black people then dont let their identity be used by the political puppet masters
In another 20 years - it will be seen as yet one more form of racism - seemingly in the name of anti racism
So let me repeat
ANYTHING centered on race and especially anything that see race as critical - is social dynamite
Social problems are to be solved by social soloutions - not by government intervention and political ideologies
我理解你的观点-但是种族政策应该被淡化。
上下是相对的
种族问题不应被忽视，但如果被忽视，则会适得其反
我们需要消除——而不是创造基于种族的政策
丹尼斯刚才解释了，你也同意种族不是主要的原因。
那么，为什么要这样做呢
所以问一下为什么种族/种族主义被这样推崇？
极左翼的社会主义政治议程有人知道吗？
被压迫者的认同和统一？
所以，如果你真的关心黑人，那就不要让他们的身份被政治傀儡主人利用
再过20年，它将被视为又一种形式的种族主义——貌似打着反种族主义的旗号
我再重复一遍
任何以种族为中心的事情，尤其是任何将种族视为关键的事情，都是社会炸药
社会问题应该通过社会解决方案来解决，而不是通过政府干预和政治意识形态来解决
As someone who has raised two biracial boys and has watched this first hand for about 35 years I'll tell you I never observed any barriers beyond lack of focus on education. I also experienced failing at turning one of my sons into a barely competent violinist after 7 years of thrice weekly violin lessons because that was nothing compared to what Russian and Asian parents demand of their children.
作为一个养大了两个混血男孩的人，我亲眼目睹这一切已经有35年了，我可以告诉你，除了缺乏对教育的关注之外，我从未发现任何障碍。我还经历过，我的一个儿子在7年的每周三次的小提琴课程后，变成了一个勉强够格的小提琴手，因为这与俄罗斯和亚洲父母对孩子的要求相比根本不算什么。
I hired an Asian girl as a violin tutor for my son once and I asked her what her parents did to turn her into a violinist. She said “They locked me in my room on the weekends.” I asked how she felt about that. She said “Well it gave me good finger control. “ I realized that achieving excellence in raising children was like a cultural secret. Not only did I have no experience with that level of expectation but I wouldn't have had the discipline myself to impose it on my children. Raising children who can achieve is NO JOKE.
有一次，我雇了一个亚洲女孩给我儿子当小提琴家教，我问她，她的父母是怎么把她培养成小提琴家的。她说:“他们周末把我锁在房间里。” 我问她对此感觉如何。她说:“这让我的手指控制的很好。“我意识到，在抚养孩子方面取得卓越成就就像一个文化秘密。我不仅没有那种程度的期望的经验，而且我自己也没有能力把它强加给我的孩子。培养一个有成就的孩子可不是闹着玩的。
You must live in a big city, with segregated “slums”. Where I come from, everybody has an equal opportunity to the same education. It's quite sad, all this talk about systemic racism, as it's coming from places where there's high percentages of minority groups living in poverty, in, basically, segregated communities, who are not getting the educational opportunities that are afforded their white counterparts.
你必须住在大城市里，那里有种族隔离的“贫民窟”。在我的家乡，每个人都有平等的机会接受同样的教育。这很可悲，所有这些关于系统性种族主义的言论，因为这些言论来自那些生活在贫困中的少数群体，基本上是隔离的社区，他们得不到与白人同龄人同等的教育机会。
Gee, if that were true then how did anyone rise out of poverty in those situations? Obviously they have some great secret
天啊，如果这是真的，那么在这种情况下，人们是如何摆脱贫困的呢？显然他们有什么大秘密
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
And what policy do you imagine forces African American kids to drop out?
你认为是什么政策迫使非裔美国孩子退学的？
when I started college I stayed at home, continued to run with my non college friends, didn't study enough, and did horrible, until I moved to the dorms where everyone needed to study.
当我开始上大学时，我呆在家里，继续和我的非大学朋友跑步，不怎么学习，成绩也不好，直到我搬到每个人都需要学习的宿舍。
My apologies, I meant more along the lines of an official school or government policy, not the unofficial actions of others. Not trying to diminish what you went through, without the racial aspects I saw similar disdain for academic pursuits in favor of sports. To a lesser degree, of course
我道歉，我更多的是指学校或政府的官方政策，而不是其他人的非官方行为。我并不是想贬低你所经历的一切，也没有种族歧视，我看到了人们为了追求体育而蔑视学术。当然，程度要小一些
Anybody who pushes the model minority MYTH is either uninformed or in denial. Education is important, but to pretend everything is all cuz “them black people don't care about education so its their own fault they're struggling" is as dumb as every single issue being blamed for racism.
任何推动模范少数族裔神话的人要么是无知，要么是在否认。教育是重要的，但只是假装一切都很重要，因为“他们黑人不关心教育，所以他们在挣扎，这是他们自己的错”，这是愚蠢的，就像每一个被指责为种族主义的问题一样。
I’ve worked in an inner city Chicago school and one of the wealthiest Chicago suburbs. Asians, latins, blacks, no Native Americans that I could discern, but plenty Native Americans when I worked in Arizona. Persons who came from families who valued education succeeded. I generally haven’t observed Anyone who failed academically because of discrimination. The only kid I saw who didn’t know how to read was promoted due to misguided policies meant to fight discrimination. If he had been held to the same standard as the other kids, he wouldn’t have had it as easy, but he also would have a real chance to succeed in life.
我曾在芝加哥市内的一所学校和芝加哥最富有的郊区工作过。亚洲人，拉丁人，黑人，没有我认识的印第安人，但我在亚利桑那工作的时候有很多印第安人。那些出身于重视教育家庭的人成功了。我一般没有看到过因为歧视而在学业上失败的人。我所见过的唯一一个不识字的孩子因为反对歧视的错误政策而得到提拔。如果把他和其他孩子放在同样的标准下，他就不会那么容易得到提拔了，但他也会有真正的机会在生活中取得成功。
If one race is significantly above the other races in number of absentee days and has significantly lower test scores than the other races, then yes people can claim that. And yes, there are circumstances that arent just they dont care about education like the children needing to work.
And yes, there can be external factors that keep people down but that does not mean we should ignore the internal factors.
如果一个种族的缺勤天数明显高于其他种族，并且考试分数明显低于其他种族，那么是的，人们可以这样说。是的，有些情况不仅仅是他们不关心教育，比如还有孩子需要工作。是的，可能会有外部因素让人们消沉，但这并不意味着我们应该忽视内部因素。
I never said that external factors didnt help cause it.
Just because black people were put into a shit situation doesn't mean they cant escape from it. But its crazy how you act like they cant escape from it, you are infantilizing them.
我从来没有忽视过外部因素导致的后果。
仅仅因为黑人被置于一种糟糕的处境并不意味着他们不能逃脱这种处境。但你表现得好像他们无法逃脱，这太疯狂了，你把他们当成了孩子。
Except the “internal" factors are a direct result of the external factors. It always amazes me that folks just think that these issues randomly came about as the result of “black people just choosing to have these issues.”
And yes, it is a myth. It's called the model minority MYTH for a reason. It requires one to ignore the huge differences I circumstances that lead such populations to the to where they are today. It must PRETEND that the circumstances of such populations have been the same when they have not. To ignore how the past shapes the present. It's why folks ignore the economic backgrounds of these successful Asian and African immigrants cuz it only shows that black Americans who are already well established here in terms of heritage/lineage are NOT on a fair playing field.
除了“内部”因素外，还有外部因素导致的直接结果。让我感到惊讶的是，人们只是认为这些问题是随机产生的，因为“黑人选择有这些问题”。
是的，这是一个神话。它被称为模范少数族裔神话是有原因的。我们必须忽视导致这些人口发展到今天的巨大环境差异。必须假装这些人口的情况与过去一样，但实际上并非如此。忽略过去如何塑造现在，这就是为什么人们忽视这些成功的亚洲和非洲移民的经济背景，因为这只表明，就血统而言，美国黑人已经在这里建立了良好的地位，但他们并不是在一个公平的竞争环境中。
You can’t change the past, you can only change the future. If you don’t like your circumstances, change your circumstances. You can’t change other people, you can only change yourself. Be the master of your own destiny.
你不能改变过去，你只能改变未来。如果你不喜欢你的环境，那就改变你的环境。你不能改变别人，你只能改变自己。做自己命运的主人。
That's all fine and dandy, but that's not how society works bud. Man, I honestly wonder what you folks would say to black people all that time ago. “Don't care about what they say. Nevermind the fact you were a slave and weren't taught to read or write or anything.You're in charge if your own destiny, so change it.”
这一切都很好，但这不是社会的运作方式。伙计，我真想知道你们以前会对黑人说些什么。不要在意他们说什么。别介意你是个奴隶，没人教过你读书写字之类的。你掌握着自己的命运，所以改变它吧。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
“Don't care about what they say. Nevermind the fact you were a slave and weren't taught to read or write or anything.You're in charge if your own destiny, so change it.”
As no living American black was a slave, that statement is useless.
And yes, you can tell someone “Here is a roadmap to help improve your life.” while also giving them the resources that can help them.
If someone was given $1 million and told how to invest it to make money, and they go blow it gambling.
不要在意他们说什么。别介意你是个奴隶，没人教过你读书写字之类的。你掌握着自己的命运，所以改变它吧。”
因为没有一个活着的美国黑人是奴隶，这种说法是没有意义的。
是的，你可以告诉别人“这是一个可以帮助你改善生活的路标。” 同时也给予他们可以帮助他们的资源。
如果有人得到了100万美元，并被告知如何投资以赚取更多的钱，而他们却把这些钱挥霍在赌博上。
Plenty of them were able to change their futures.
他们中的很多人能够改变自己的未来。
YOU are the one that juxtaposed internal and external factors, not me.
I never argued nor implied that it is impossible black people cannot overcome. Overcoming is literally part of black culture. Frankly, black people should get hella more praise for being where they are despite all the bs they've put up with and continue to be put up with.
What I'm arguing against is this stupid notion that black people are only holding themselves back, that the past doesn't shape the present, that there aren't still issues, that there shouldn't be a collective effort to address the issues and that it should all be on black people to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps.” Erica said all that in her comment. Very clearly, as matter of fact. And Erica is indeed using the model minority MYTH. That was also very clear. “Black culture" is the issue. Cultures like “Asian culture" are good cuz they value education.
Idk why you're trying to act like you're acknowledging and agree with the point I was making while actively arguing against it. I'm not saying nor implying thay cuz these issues are heavily shaped by past and present racism that black people should just sit there and do nothing. Of course you continue to work hard.
是你把内部和外部因素并列在一起，而不是我。
我从来没有争辩过，也没有暗示过这是黑人无法克服的。克服是黑人文化的一部分。坦率地说，因为他们现在所处的位置，黑人应该得到更多的赞扬，尽管他们已经忍受并继续忍受所有的废话。
我反对的是这种愚蠢的观念，认为黑人只是在自我克制，过去并不能塑造现在，问题已经不存在了，不应该有一个集体的努力来解决这些问题，所有这些问题都应该由黑人“自力更生”。爱丽卡在她的评论里都说了。很明显，事实上。艾丽卡确实使用了模范少数族裔神话。这也很清楚，问题在于“黑人文化”，像“亚洲文化”这样的文化很好，因为他们重视教育。
我不知道为什么你在积极反对我的观点的同时，却试图表现得承认并同意我的观点。我不是说或暗示这些问题，因为这些问题很大程度上受过去和现在的种族主义影响，黑人应该只是坐在那里，什么都不做。你当然要继续努力。
No matter how hard it may seem, and no matter the sacrifices that need to be made, working is always the answer to self improvement.
If you say I can’t afford to take classes to improve myself. Then you’ve effectively said, I like the apartment I have, I like the types of food I eat, and I like all the other things I spend my money on, instead of spending it on things that make me better.
For example, for an entire year I spent less than $25 a month on food. I had cheerios for breakfast, and peanut butter and jelly for lunch and dinner. The cheapest jellies are strawberry and grape. Don’t like grape jelly, so I always got the strawberry. And once in a while, I would splurge and get orange marmalade. And I always got those in bulk. The bread I got, was always the cheapest.
Also, I rented a tiny little room in a house.
无论工作看起来多么艰难，无论需要做出什么牺牲，工作永远是自我提升的答案。
如果你说我没钱去上课提高自己。然后你又说，我喜欢我的公寓，我喜欢我吃的食物，我喜欢我花钱买的所有其他东西，而不是把钱花在能够自我提升的事情上。
例如，整整一年，我每个月在食物上的花费不到25美元。我早餐吃麦片，午餐和晚餐吃花生酱和果酱。最便宜的果酱是草莓果酱和葡萄果酱。
我不喜欢葡萄果酱，所以我总是买草莓的果酱。偶尔，我会挥霍一下，买些橘子酱。我总是买散装的。我买的面包总是最便宜的。另外，我租了一个小房间。
Getting out of poverty in the United States is relatively straightforward.
Get off of government welfare because that restricts your options of improving your life.
Get an education. You don’t need a college education to do well in United States. Skills as simple as being a truck driver or an HVAC tech can earn you an extraordinarily good living.
Lastly you need to be willing to work hard and make sacrifices initially in order to improve your future life.
在美国，摆脱贫困相对简单。
摆脱政府福利，因为这限制了你改善生活的选择。
接受教育。在美国，你不需要接受大学教育就能过得很好。像卡车司机或暖通空调技术这样简单的技能可以让你过上非常好的生活。
最后，你需要愿意努力工作，一开始就做出牺牲，以改善你未来的生活。
As for getting out of poverty, the primary need is to recognize the local conditions that are contributing to a persons economic and financial situation and working hard to adjust them. This is made difficult by policies of both government in the economy and society that stand as obstacles to rising from poverty. That is true anywhere.
至于摆脱贫困，首要的是需要认识到有助于个人经济和财政状况的当地有利条件，并努力加以调整。在经济和社会中，政府的政策是摆脱贫困的障碍，这使得实现这一目标变得很困难，这在任何地方都是一样的。