“不受控制的移民”在英国是一个真正的问题吗?

Claire Jordan
The trouble with uncontrolled immigration to the UK is that unlike the US, we expect to be able to provide everybody with a good standard of living including free at point of use healthcare. If people come in slowly then however many there are the infrastructure adjusts to keep up with them - more people means more consumers means more jobs done by them and to cater to them means more taxes paid means more money to expand the schools and hospitals necessary to care for them. But it takes several years to build new wards and operating theatres and classrooms and train the staff to operate them, so if a lot of people arrive all at once there’s a risk they’ll crash the system.

英国在不受控移民这个问题上，是与美国不同的，我们是希望能给他们每个人都提供好的生活标准，包括免费的医疗保健。如果移民进来的很慢，那么不管有多少人，基础设施都会跟上他们的步伐，更多的人意味着更多的消费者，意味着他们需要更多的工作岗位，意味着要缴纳更多的税款，也意味着需要更多的钱来扩建照顾他们所必需的学校和医院。但是，建造新的病房、手术室和教室，以及培训工作人员如何操作这些设施，都需要数年时间。因此，如果很多人同时到来，就有可能导致系统崩溃。

Profile photo for Stephen Hill
Question 1;
How many people are here from the newest members of the EU, Bulgaria and Rumania?
According to the last census there are 101,000 Rumanians (there are 106,000 from China) and 57,000 Bulgarians in Britain. This compares to 304,000 Germans, 217,000 Americans and 209,000 South Africans, and the most, 749,000 from India. In the period between the last two cencuses 140,000 Irish immigrants left Britain, slightly less than the total number of Bulgarians and Rumanians who arrived.
Question 2;
How does this compare with Brish migration?
761,000 Britons live in Spain. The BBC estimates that 5.5 million Britons live abroad, just under 10% of the total population, whilst (2011 census again) the total number of immigrants comes to 11.9 per cent of the total population, of which 2.24 million were born in the EU, 3.6% of the total population.

问题一：
移民里有多少人来自欧盟的新成员国保加利亚和罗马尼亚?
根据最近的人口普查，在英国有101,000名罗马尼亚人(106,000名中国人)和57,000名保加利亚人。相比之下，德国人有30.4万，美国人有21.7万，南非人有20.9万，印度人最多，有74.9万。在前两次人口普查期间，14万爱尔兰移民离开英国，略低于抵达英国的保加利亚人和罗马尼亚人的总人数。
问题二：
这与英国移民相比如何?
76.1万英国人居住在西班牙。英国广播公司估计，550万英国人生活在国外，不到总人口的10%，而外来移民总数达到总人口的11.9%，其中224万出生于欧盟，占总人口的3.6%。

Question 3;
What effect do EU migrants have on the British economy? Specifically are they a burden by making use of the benefit system and public services?
Immigrants from the new EU countries from 2004 make a net contribution of 5 billion to the treasury, use of public services and state benefits included,the total net figure for all EU immigrants being 20 billion. This contribution compares very favourably to non EU immigration, and to native Britons as well, who both cost the treasury to a greater or leser extent. (see report below for details).
Conclusion;
Highlighting the number of Rumanian and Bulgarian migrants does not conform with the results of the last census.
The net financial contribution of people from EU countries, including those from Eastern Europe, is very positive, unlike native born Britons and non-EU migrants, who are a net cost to the treasury.
Rather than putting a strain on our public services and benefit system, EU migrants help us pay for them.
As to benefit tourism from the EU, there is no factual basis for holding such a view. It is in fact a non-issue.

问题三：
欧盟移民对英国经济有什么影响?具体来说，他们是福利制度和公共服务的负担吗?
从2004年开始，来自新欧盟国家的移民对财政的净贡献为50亿英镑，其中包括公共服务和国家福利的使用，所有欧盟移民的净贡献总数为200亿英镑。与非欧盟移民和本土英国人相比，这一贡献非常有利，非欧盟移民和英国人或多或少地花了国库的钱。
总结：
强调罗马尼亚和保加利亚移徙者的人数不符合上次人口普查的结果。来自欧盟国家(包括东欧国家)的人的净财政贡献是非常积极的，不像英国本土出生的人和非欧盟移民，他们是财政的净成本。
欧盟移民并没有给我们的公共服务和福利体系带来压力，而是帮助我们支付这些费用。
至于欧盟对旅游业的好处，这种观点是没有事实根据的。事实上，这不是一个问题。

Charles Stuart
I vote Conservative but I'm not really too concerned about immigration. Yes, there are a lot of immigrants in the UK but they generate much more wealth than they consume. I can understand concerns about too many people coming here with cultural values that are too far removed from the native inhabitants'. However, I think that immigrant population usually get assimilated and in a hundred years' time they'll be as British as the rest of us.
It's hard to stop immigration. It's happened many times throughout history. The simple fact is that people migrate to where they think life is going to be better. In my opinion, the best approach is one of accommodation, rather than one of trying to isolate the country from a worldwide phenomenon. I think that immigration is an issue for the ordinary person because of fear of the unknown. However, I think that the right political approach would be to try and calm these fears rather than to try and prevent something that can't be prevented.

我投票给保守党，但我真的不太关心移民问题。是的，英国有很多移民，但他们创造的财富远远多于他们消费的财富。我能理解很多人的担忧，他们带来到这里的文化价值观与当地居民的文化价值观相差太远。然而，我认为移民人口通常会被同化，一百年后他们会和我们一样成为英国人。
阻止移民是很难的。这在历史上发生过很多次。一个简单的事实是，人们会迁移到他们认为生活将会更好的地方。在我看来，最好的办法是适应，而不是试图把这个国家从这个世界现象中孤立出来。我认为移民是一个普通人都会在意的议题，因为对未知的恐惧。然而，我认为正确的方法应该是试图平息这些恐惧，而不是试图阻止无法阻止的事情发生。

Gavin Ruddy
Rather than repeat some of the excellent answers to this question, I'll just add a quick point from a slightly different perspective; actually, I'd quite like my kids to have wider horizons and grow up in a less restricted world than I did. I'd like them to be free to get an education or to live and work in other (hopefully) peaceful, civilised and prosperous EU countries if that's what they want to do. This is the freedom on the flip side of the "uncontrolled immigration" we're hearing so much about.

我不会重复这个问题的一些优秀答案，我只是从一个稍微不同的角度添加一个观点;事实上，我非常希望我的孩子有更广阔的视野，在一个比我更少限制的世界中成长。我希望他们能够自由接受教育，或者在其他和平、文明和繁荣的欧盟国家生活和工作，如果这是他们想要的话。这是我们经常听到的“不受控制的移民”的另一面的自由。

Shanky Shah
I dont know about xenophobia. But I find sometimes the EU policies are pretty xenophobic itself. I mean why do you allow europeans to freely enter in UK while do not allow others? Just because europeans are whites and others like asians and africans are black?? Isn't that racist itself??
Being immigrnt from outside EU, I had seen some worst examples. Now the open door policy had put a cap on immigration from outside EU.
I had seen that some asians and african immigrants, with skillset being turned down by UK to work in UK. While, from EU even people with no skill whatsoever can enter UK without any trouble. Although, with the open market of these days. I guess, if you are skilled person , you can find some other countries can welcome you with open arms. But for UK, it will be hurting.
I think, the policy where all immigrants in UK are treated equally will be beneficial to all.

我不了解仇外心理。但我发现，有时候欧盟政策本身就相当排外。我的意思是，为什么你们允许欧洲人自由进入英国，而不允许其他人进入?仅仅因为欧洲人是白人，而亚洲人和非洲人是黑人?这本身不就是种族歧视吗?作为来自欧盟以外的移民，我曾见过一些最糟糕的例子。现在，开放政策对来自欧盟以外的移民设置了上限。我看到一些有技能的亚洲和非洲移民被拒绝在英国工作。而没有任何技能的欧盟人却可以毫无困难地进入英国。不过，现在市场开放了。我想，如果你是技术人员，你会发现其他一些国家会张开双臂欢迎你。但对英国来说，这将是一种伤害。我认为，英国所有移民都被平等对待的政策将使所有人受益。

Profile photo for Paul M Calvert
It's good for the gene pool, fills skills gaps and can help with an ageing population.
Uncontrolled immigration, definitely not a good thing. Drives down wages and work opportunities for the low skilled, puts pressure on social services, hospitals, schools, infrastructure etc.

移民对基因库有好处，可以填补技能缺口，还可以帮助解决人口老龄化问题。
但不受控制的移民，绝对不是一件好事。他们压低了低技能工人的工资和工作机会，对社会服务、医院、学校、基础设施等造成压力。

Bob Gartside
The really interesting question is why immigration into Britain constantly increases while the apparent prosperity of the country goes down;

真正有趣的问题是，为什么移民到英国的人数不断增加，而这个国家的表面繁荣却在下降。

Mark Errington
It is not an issue at all. There are strict immigration controls for those outside the EU, and have been for decades. We have never signed up to the Schengen Agreement, so people coming from outside the EU who have managed to get into a Schengen country have no entitlement to come here.
Without immigration from the EU the NHS and care systems would cease to function overnight, and no-one in London could find a plumber. They also contribute massively more than they cost the country.
If anyone starts making speeches or writing leader articles about uncontrolled immigration you should ask what they are trying to gain from making fallacious statements that are inherently xenophobic and are solely intended to worry the gullible masses into voting for what is an extreme right wing position.
There is no ‘genuine concern’ about this, only rabble rousing political opportunists like Nigel Farage and neo-fascist newspaper editors, like Paul Dacre.
We have many problems of our own making, such as an incredibly unbalanced economy and a housing crisis, that have nothing to do with immigration. Lets deal with those problems and forget about immigration. It really is not a problem.

这根本不是问题。我们对于欧盟以外的国家，几十年来都有严格的移民控制。我们从未签署过申根协议（译注：一项取消欧盟国家之间边境检查的协议），所以来自欧盟以外国家的人，如果成功进入申根国家，也没有权利来到这里。如果没有来自欧盟的移民，英国国家医疗服务体系和医疗保健系统将在一夜之间停止运转，伦敦也没有人能找到水管工。他们的贡献也大大超过了国家在他们身上的花费。如果有人开始发表演讲或撰写有关不受控制的移民的文章，你应该问问他们，他们试图从这些本质上排外的谬论中获得什么，这些谬论只是为了让容易上当的大众担心，让他们投票支持极端右翼的立场。

James C Stanley
We, the British are NOT against immigration! Historically, we have welcomed the men of many Nations into our Navy. For generations our shores have been a safe haven for those suffering persecution, religious, political or cultural, and Brexit will not change this. We welcome overseas students into our Universities to learn. Post war it was said that London Transport was saved by immigration from the Bahamas, indeed, I understand that this was the reason for the Windrush Generation coming here, so, we are not against immigration. what we are against are the freeloaders, those who come here, not to work, and be a part of our society, but who wish to live off the fat of our land. Why else would there be such an influx of illegal immigrants, except to take advantage of our generous nature? Once here, even the legal incomers will take advantage, and seek to bring their family here, not just their parents, wife and kids, but everyone to their third cousin twice removed and their family as well!

我们英国人并不反对移民!历史上，我们欢迎许多国家的人加入我们的海军。几代人以来，我们的海岸一直是那些遭受宗教、政治或文化迫害的人的避风港，英国脱欧不会改变这一点。我们欢迎海外学生来我们的大学学习。二战后，据说巴哈马移民拯救了伦敦交通，的确，我知道这就是“疾风世代”来到这里的原因，所以，我们并不反对移民。我们反对的是那些吃白食的人，他们来这里不是为了工作，而是为了成为我们社会的一部分，希望靠我们肥沃的土地过活。为什么会有这么多非法移民涌入，除了会利用我们慷慨的天性还会啥?即使是合法的移民也会利用这一点，他们一旦来到这里，就试图把他们的家人带到这里，不仅是他们的父母、妻子和孩子，而且每个人都要把他们的三表哥及其家人带到这里!

Mark Gee
Britain wants immigration, but not uncontrolled immigration. Britain should have the right to dictate who enters and who shouldn't. Skilled workers, professional, innovators. . All these contribute immensely.
Those who contribute to society and not leech off the system that they have never contributed to, we have enough of our own home grown leeches .
Bring your own culture and traditions but do not try to impose them on Britain. Don't expect Britain to change its ways and customs just to accommodate yours.

英国想要移民，但不是不受控制的移民。英国应该有权决定谁能进来，谁不能进来。熟练工人，专业人士，创新者，所有这些移民都做出了巨大的贡献。要那些对社会有贡献的人，而不是要从来没有贡献过的体制中榨取的人，我们自己的寄生虫已经够多了。你可以带上你自己的文化和传统，但不要把它们强加给英国。别指望英国会为了适应你而改变自己的方式和习俗。

Joseph Hall
Lots of non-white immigrants from the Caribbean and South Asia settled in the UK in the 1950s and 60s. But the electorate were starting to complain to the government, so the government stopped immigration from the Caribbean in 1962. Asians were then stopped in 1968 or there abouts.
Then following the crisis in Uganda in 1971/72 the UK was obliged to take the Ugandan Asians that wanted to move to the UK, under International Law. But South Asians were still trickling in because it were their custom to marry people from their village back home. So the government made things difficult for these Asian brides at Heathrow Airport before allowing them to enter the country. They had to undergo “virginity tests" at the airport before being allowed into the UK. Those tests stopped in about 1979 following protests from the Indian government.
The next major wave of non-white immigrants were refugees in the early 1990s from Somalia and Eritrea from the wars in the horn of Africa. Then when Tony Blair won the 1997 General Election he relaxed the 1962 and 1968 immigration laws. This resulted in 3.2 million immigrants arriving in the UK from Africa, East Asia, South Asia, South America and Eastern European countries. So in reaction to all the fuss the International student post-study work Visa was scrapped, and immigrants who wanted a work Visa needed to study minimum salary requirements to get a work Visa, plus find an employer willing to sponsor them. Teressa May also made life difficult for Caribbeans not born in the UK who had come here as school children. She had destroyed documents held by the government detailing the date they arrived in the UK. So those of them that had not taken out a British passport could no longer prove they arrived in the UK before 1973. So some of them were deported though thrychad the right to live in the UK. Since then the UK has left the EU.
Boris Johnson is now Prime Minister and has in place new immigration rules from 2021. Such as the reduction of the minimum salary needed to qualify for a work Visa. Also from 2021 International students can stay on for 2 years after graduation going any job they can find.

上世纪五六十年代，许多来自加勒比海和南亚的非白人移民在英国定居。但是选民开始向政府抱怨，所以政府在1962年阻止了来自加勒比海的移民。亚洲人则在1968年左右被禁止进入。然后，在1971/72年乌干达危机之后，根据国际法，英国被迫接收希望移居英国的乌干达亚裔移民。但南亚人仍在逐渐涌入，因为他们的习俗是与家乡村子里的人通婚。所以，在允许这些亚洲新娘入境之前，英国人在希思罗机场给她们制造了麻烦。在获准进入英国之前，她们必须在机场接受“处女测试”。在印度政府的抗议下，这些测试于1979年左右停止。下一波非白人移民主要是1990年代初来自索马里和厄立特里亚的难民，他们来自非洲之角的战争。1997年布莱尔赢得大选后，他放宽了1962年和1968年的移民法。这导致320万来自非洲、东亚、南亚、南美和东欧国家的移民来到英国。因此，作为对这些混乱的反应，国际学生的毕业工作签证被取消，想要工作签证的移民需要完成最低工资要求的学习来获得工作签证，并找到愿意为他们提供担保的雇主。特蕾莎梅也让那些不是在英国出生、在上学时就来到英国的加勒比海人的生活变得艰难。她销毁了政府持有的文件，这些文件详细记录了他们抵达英国的日期。因此，那些没有拿出英国护照的人，再也无法证明他们在1973年之前到达了英国。所以他们中的一些人被驱逐出境，被剥夺了在英国居住的权利。自那以后，英国退出了欧盟。鲍里斯·约翰逊现在是英国首相，他从2021年起颁布了新的移民规定。比如降低获得工作签证所需的最低工资。此外，从2021年开始，国际学生可以在毕业后继续工作2年，他们可以找到任何工作。
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Profile photo for Chris Allen
We’re are not against immigration (Personally, I don’t care about what religion or race an immigrant is, I only care whether the immigrant coming is fully respectful of British values, and people in general. If you can’t respect people because of their race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc, then I consider you unwelcome). We just simply want to control who comes in and how many. You see some people are deliberately ignoring several key problems that the UK is facing, these problems include:
NHS under intense pressure from ageing population.
Lots of schools facing extreme shortages of placements for children.
Lack of house-building.
Public services are being crippled with austerity cuts.
Emergency Services are under extreme pressure
Police numbers have been cut, and operational capability compromised.
Simply put, we can’t continue the level of immigration into the country. I have on several occasions been labelled racist by self-righteous remainers, just for stating my support for an Australian-like immigration system, yet I bet these same people wouldn’t go to Australia and shout their mouths off to everybody there and start accusing them for being completely racist for not opening up Australia to an influx of low-skilled migrants who will drag down wages, increase crime and pay little to no taxation whatsoever. These same people also seem to refuse to answer my queries about if they, themselves, would fully pay the cost of fixing the problems above, unsurprising really.

我们并不反对移民(就我个人而言，我不关心移民的宗教或种族，我只关心来的移民是否完全尊重英国的价值观和普通人，如果你因为人们的种族、宗教、性别、性取向等原因而不尊重他们，那么我认为你是不受欢迎的)。：我们只是想控制进来的人数。你可以看到，有些人故意忽略了英国面临的几个关键问题，这些问题包括:
国民保健服务面临人口老龄化的巨大压力
许多学校面临着儿童安置的极端短缺
没有房子
公共服务因紧缩政策受到削弱
紧急服务处于极度压力之下
警察人数减少,作战能力下降
简单地说,我们不能让移民继续涌入这个国家。我曾多次被自以为是的留欧派贴上种族主义者的标签，就因为我表示支持类似澳大利亚的移民制度，我敢打赌，这些人不会去澳大利亚，向那里的每个人大喊大叫，指责他们完全是种族主义者，因为他们澳大利亚没有向大量涌入的低技能移民开放，认为这些移民会拉低工资，增加犯罪，而且几乎不纳税。这些人似乎也拒绝回答我的问题，即他们自己是否愿意为解决上述问题支付全部费用，这并不奇怪。

Stuart Beesley
We are not anti-migrants. We are against a massive invasion of migrants who just want to jump the queue. You do the British people a great disservice my suggesting that we are in someway racist. We are one of the most accepting peoples in the world.

我们不是反移民者。我们反对只是想插队的大规模移民入侵。你说英国人在某种程度上是种族主义者，这对英国人是极大的伤害。我们是世界上最能接受移民的民族之一。