QA提问：日本人和韩国人能读懂文言文版的维基百科吗

Ko Inagaki
OK… Challenge accepted! I’ll try to read the first part of this article. Just to note, I have gone through a regular curriculum in a Japanese high school, and was taught to read kanbun(Classical Chinese) for around 2 or 3 hours a week. I haven’t read much since I graduated high school, but I occasionally try to read some in my spare time, just for fun.
Actually, I speak barely any modern Mandarin, nor I never formally studied classical Chinese outside of the mandatory high school lessons. So don’t think this is the correct translation of the article, but I’ll try anyway, just to give you a hint how a Japanese might be able to “read” classical Chinese. So these are the first two sentences I tried to translate without using references.

Original Text:文言者，古東亞人書其言以述志表情者也。先民言語傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。

My (probably nonsensical) Kakikudashibun;
文言は古の東亜人が其の言を書きて以て志表情を述べるもの也。先民言語は口耳により伝わり、縄を結ぶを以て記すに至っては、贅を日々に事ひ(?)、是縄を結ぶこれ足らず、諸絵図求め、絵図猶(??)、而して字を創り文を製し、金石、竹帛に之を載せ、劉漢より諸紙に書く。
Attempted translation:
Classical Chinese is what ancient East-Asians used to write their words in order to describe their feelings and expressions. Languages of the ancients were communicated orally, and tying ropes were used to record the language, which was used everyday excessively, and as a result the ropes were not enough. (People) searched for pictures, but pictures were still (??), and thus they created characters and composed sentences, and marked on golden stones and on bamboo strips, then after the Han dynasty period, they wrote it down on paper.

There were no characters I couldn’t recognize except 逾 and 帛, although even for the ones I was able to recognize, I am not sure the meanings are precisely correct. I guessed that the 竹帛 is something you can inscribe on, so I translated it as a bamboo strip.

It was a fun attempt but an exhausting one at the same time. If you have some of the basic high school kanbun knowledge, I think you can kind of get what is going on, but don’t fully understand it into the details.

好吧，接受挑战。我将尝试阅读本文的第一部分。请注意，我在一所日本高中上过常规课程，每周有2到3个小时的时间学习阅读汉文（文言文）。高中毕业后我没怎么读汉文，但我偶尔会在业余时间读一些，只是因为兴趣。
事实上，我几乎不会说任何现代汉语，除了必修的高中课程外，我也从未正式学习过文言文。所以不要认为这是这篇文章的正确翻译，但我还是会尝试，只是想给你一个提示，日本人可能会如何“阅读”文言文。这是我在没有进行查阅的情况下试图翻译这篇文章的前两句话。
原文是:文言者，古東亞人書其言以述志表情者也。先民言語傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。
我的（可能错漏百出）汉文直译体（译注：把汉文改写为带假名的现代日文）：

文言は古の東亜人が其の言を書きて以て志表情を述べるもの也。先民言語は口耳により伝わり、縄を結ぶを以て記すに至っては、贅を日々に事ひ(?)、是縄を結ぶこれ足らず、諸絵図求め、絵図猶(??)、而して字を創り文を製し、金石、竹帛に之を載せ、劉漢より諸紙に書く。

尝试翻译：
文言文是古代东亚人用来书写以描述他们情感和表述的文字。古人的语言是口头交流的，并用绳子记录，每天都会用掉很多绳子，结果绳子不够用。（人们）寻找图片，但图片仍然（？？），因此他们创造了文字，组成了句子，并标记在黄金石头和竹条上，到了汉代以后，他们将其写在纸上。
除了“逾”和“帛”之外,没有一个字是我不认识的。 即使是那些我认识的字，我也不确定这些意思是否准确。我猜“竹帛”是一种你可以在上面雕刻的东西，所以我把它翻译成了竹条。
这是一次有趣的尝试，但同时也是一次令人筋疲力尽的尝试。如果你有一些基本的高中汉文知识，我认为你可以了解文章正在讲述的事情，但不能完全理解细节。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

Young-Min Kang
Well, I am 47 year old Korean who majored computer science. I am a kind of Hangul (Korean alphabet) only generation who was not intensively taught Chinese characters in school.
But I was interested in learning Chinese characters in middle school and high school, and I still try to learn them for fun.
I will try to translate the Classical Chinese sentences in a letter by letter basis. My translation may have many errors.
*** this cannot be a “translation.” I think this should be called “a guess.”
The original text was slighted modified and added as follows:

文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越。

The classic Chinese was used for old Chineses and the neighbors to describe their will and express their feeling. People first spoke and communicated with ear and mouth, then they made knots to record, but things became so complex that the knots were not enough. Therefore, they first requested drawing, but the drawing became also insufficient. They then created characters and made sentences and wrote them on metals, stones, bamboo, and silk cloth. Since Liu’s Han dynasty, they have written on paper. During the Tang and Song Dynasty, writers respected the old styles and looked down on the contemporary styles. They repected the old writings, rules, and ??? of Chin dynasty and thought them as ideal models. Therefore, although speaking and listening have been changed for hundreds and thousands of years, the writing and reading could be still understood through three dynasties. Although the Classical Chinese was not created suddenly, ????? , it may be originated from Yan and Yue kingdoms.

我是47岁的韩国人，主修计算机科学。我是一个只学谚文（韩语字母）的一代人，在学校里没有集中学习过汉字。
但是我在中学和高中时对学习汉字很感兴趣，我仍然试着根据兴趣去学习汉字
我将尝试逐字翻译文言文句子。我的翻译可能有很多错误。
***这不是“翻译”，我认为这应该被称为“猜测”
对原文略作修改和补充，内容如下：
文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越。
古代中国人和邻国用文言文来描述他们的意愿和表达他们的情感。人们首先用耳朵和嘴来说话和交流，然后以打结来记录，但事情变得如此复杂，仅仅打结是不够的。因此，他们首先使用图画，但图画也变得不够用。然后，他们创造文字，组成句子，并把它们写在金属、石头、竹子和丝绸上。从刘汉代开始，他们就在纸上写字。在唐宋时期，文人们敬仰旧时风格而轻视当代的风格。他们敬仰旧时秦朝的文字、规则和？？？认为它们是理想的模式。因此，虽然听和说的方式已经改变了成百上千年，但读和写仍然可以贯穿三个朝代而被理解。虽然文言文不是突然之间产生的，？？？？？，但是，它可能起源于燕国和越国。

Sean Wong
wow, that is impressive. A couple of points though.

first ???? means they created rules and styles in the model of old texts. 先秦 here would mean entire classical China, Shang, Zhou, Qin and sometimes Han.

The gist of the sentence means formal classical Chinese was formed in Tang, Song dynasty in the style of older writer rather than contemporary. Hence having classical Chinese literary Chinese and differs from vernacular Chinese even during those ancient times.

燕越 while literally does mean Yan and Yue kingdoms, in this context, it simply means far away. Same with 三代 means many many generations and dynasties rather just exactly three. 莫衷一是 mean having different opinions, not of the same thing.
Thus 唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越. would translate to

[Classical Chinese can still be understood] even though they are written in different eras, different styles; very different from each other and from a long long time ago.
The last two phrases is really just a restating of previous two sentences. While annoying and verbose, it was the style back then.

哇，令人印象深刻。不过有两点需要注意
第一个？？？？意思是他们以旧文本为模板创建了规则和样式。“先秦”这里指的是整个古典中国时期，商周秦汉。
这句话的主旨是正式的文言文是在唐宋时期以旧时文人的风格而不是当代文人的风格形成的。因此，即使在古代，文言文也与白话文不同。
虽然“燕越”意思确实是燕国和越国，但在本文中，它仅仅意味着遥远。“三代”也是同样，意思是很多很多代以及朝代，而不是指确切的三。“莫衷一是”意思是有许多不同的观点，而非一致。
所以，“唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越”可以翻译为
虽然以不同风格书写于不同的时期，相互之间差别巨大，年代久远，（但文言文依然可以被看懂）。
最后两个短语实际上只是前两句话的重述。虽然烦人且冗长，但这是当时的风格。

Misako Fukuda

as Japanese, we can ready 漢文 by meaning. It's not perfectly but I can guess what they are writing about. Japanese Kanji and Chinese are pretty similar meaning. I can communicate with my Chinese friends by Kanji and Chinese. (not perfectly) We learn 漢文、古文 in high school.
作为日本人，我们能读懂汉文的意思。并不能完全看懂，但我能猜出他们在写什么。日本汉字和中国汉字的意思非常相似。我可以用汉字和汉语与我的中国朋友交流（不完美）。在高中，我们学习汉文、古文。

Scottlyn Blānk
This is a challenging question, and still I will go as far to give my best answer with any applicable upxes. I posit the answer is somewhat of a 'yes' to varying degrees, yet it is challenging to parse for some at least initially.

文言文 or "Classical Chinese" is fascinating in how it works and compares to other languages alongside more common and colloquial forms of Chinese. This form of language tends to be highly expressive and formal while also being very brief. This language looks very abbreviated in terms of how many characters it takes to convey a given idea compared to others that even includes General Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. Each character in and of itself is able to abstractly represent a 'noun' as well as a 'verb', sometimes almost simultaneously. As with Chinese, there appears to be some amount of fuzzy logic present in textual form, though it may be quite abstract and necessitate multidimensional thinking.
Since a lix is given, I will give my effort to translate it as well (in a general way), although I intend to focus on portions of the article which are not as frequently translated by others. 文言文 is included below:
『文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越。』

Classical Chinese is an ancient language with origins that even appear to predate the Qin Dynasty. It first began with oral tradition, then moving to records kept by cords, then drawings, then writing on metal, stone, bamboo, and fabric (silk) all around similar times, until paper alongside books were used by the Han Dynasty (by Liu). Through the T'ang and Song dynasties, scholars kept to older and more formal traditions of Chinese. Before the Qin Dynasty, rules were kept on patterned rope, the well-rounded patterns thus defined. Ergo, speakers and listeners drastically changed hundreds to thousands of years, literati transpired, these matters could be tracked over many [stacked] generations. While all who created classical language as it is known did not create it all in an instant, it is thought to originate from the times between the Yan and Yue kingdoms.

(The character used for "many [stacked]" now looks like "三" also known as 'three' in common usage, yet variation in stroke length could produce a similar yet perhaps functionally distinct Sinograph; its usage appears similar to abstract uses of 王, which is in characters like 琴.)

Another passage from the same article is the following:
『文言，興於漢，又云漢文，外交朝鮮、東胡、匈奴、西域、南越等諸國，其戎狄之民，惟用言而無文，故受漢文，曰漢文云，書同文，言文異。朝鮮，曰漢文（한문）。日本曰漢文（かんぶん）。南越，亦曰漢文（Hán Văn）。』

Classical language, fascinating Sino[graphs], like Chinese of the sky (clouds), found exchanged use among Koreans (朝鲜 /저성/: Jeosong), Eastern peoples (Hu), Xiong-nu, Western [bordering] domains, Vietnam, and so on. Aside from military personnel, it was essentially used by those without much of their own writing traditions, with speaking, writing, and some variations. Koreans call it "Hanmun", Japanese "Kanbūn", Vietnamese "Hán Vǎn".
As formal education on the classics is present in Japan and Korea, there are materials and classes dealing with 文言文, particularly in Japan. The Japanese term which designates Classical Chinese [studies] is 漢文 /kan-būn/ or 'Han Writing'. Typically, this begins around High/Secondary School, although in some cases (such as with gifted students) it could be learned earlier on. In Korea, students might typically learn Classical Chinese a little later than their Chinese and Japanese peers, likely late in Secondary School or quite likely in College. Education in Korea tends to highlight Hangul (itself an impressive writing system), and still it is important that students learn at least some 한자 (漢字: Hanja) by around middle school.
Japanese and Korean students are usually prompted to learn upwards of 2000~3000 characters, though most Sinographs (characters) are made up of the same essential lines (strokes) on an atomic level and other components going up in complexity. The more or less 'molecular' level of Sinographic composition could be considering as being general ‘radicles’ not including basic strokes (approximation: 一丨丿丶乛乚乙 ……). The number of radicles varies to some extent not only in Chinese but between countries, yet the number largely comes out as being between around one hundred to more than two hundred (some radicle systems even have three hundred or more, though these are often likely variations of the basic radicle set).
There are some number of places and resources online that discuss 文言文. Interestingly, I some comparisons and ideas that suggest 文言文 can be viewed through the lens of programming [language]. One such lix I found that does this is a lecture from YouTube titled "The Programming Language Called Classical Chinese" by David Branner. Still, fairly educated people from China and surrounding countries will be able to at least read some 文言文 and have at least a basic idea (perhaps akin to a summary of important points) of the meaning in a given passage.
这是一个具有挑战性的问题，我仍然会尽可能给出我的最佳答案，并提供合适的更新。我认为答案在不同程度上都是肯定的，但至少在最初阶段，对文言文作出解析对一些人来说是一个挑战。
文言文或者说“古典汉语”，与其它语言以及更常见的汉语口语比起来，它的运作方式是很吸引人的。这种语言形式非常具有表现力，非常正式，同时也非常简短。与其他语言（甚至包括一般的中文、日文和韩文）相比，这种语言在表达一个特定想法所需的字数非常少。每个字本身都能抽象地表示一个“名词”或一个“动词”，有时几乎同时表示名词和动词。作为汉语，文本形式中似乎存在一些模糊逻辑，尽管它可能相当抽象，需要多维思维。
既然已经给出了链接，我也会尽力翻译它（以通常的方式），尽管我打算把重点放在文章中其他人不经常翻译的部分。
文言文内容如下：
『文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越。』
文言文是一种起源于先秦时期的古老语言。它首先以口述的方式开始，然后发展到用绳子记录，然后是绘画，然后是在金属、石头、竹子和织物（丝绸）上书写，这些都出现于相近的时代，直到汉代（刘）使用纸和书来书写。在唐宋时期，学者们保持着更古老、更正式的中文传统。在秦朝以前，结成图案的绳子是有规则的，于是就定下了图案的样式。因此，说话者和听众在数百到数千年之间发生了巨大的变化，文人们发现，这些事物可以在许多代人的时间里得以被追溯。虽然所有创造文言文的人并不是在一瞬间将它创造出来的，但它被认为起源于燕越两国之间的时代。
（用来表示“许多[成堆]”的这个字现在看起来像“三“通常也被作为“三”，但笔画长度的变化可能会产生一种类似但意思上可能不同的汉字；它的用法似乎类似于汉字“王”的抽象用法, 就比如在“琴”这个字里面)
同一篇文章的另一段内容如下：

『文言，興於漢，又云漢文，外交朝鮮、東胡、匈奴、西域、南越等諸國，其戎狄之民，惟用言而無文，故受漢文，曰漢文云，書同文，言文異。朝鮮，曰漢文（한문）。日本曰漢文（かんぶん）。南越，亦曰漢文（Hán Văn）。』

文言文，迷人的汉字[图形]，就像汉语里的天（云），在与朝鲜、东胡、匈奴、西域、越南等国交流中使用。除了军事人员外，它基本上是由那些没有太多自己的书写传统的人使用的，包括口语、书写和一些变体。朝鲜人称之为“汉文”（Hanmun），日本人称之为“汉文”（Kanbūn），越南人也称之为“汉文”（Hán Văn）。
由于日本和韩国都有关于文言文的正规教育，因此也有文言文的教材和课程，尤其是在日本。日语中用来指代文言文[研究]的术语是“汉文”或“汉文书写”。通常情况下，文言文学习始于高中左右，尽管在某些情况下（比如有天赋的学生）可以更早地学习。在韩国，学生学习文言文的时间通常比他们的中国和日本同龄人晚一点，可能是在中学后期，也很可能是在大学。韩国的教育倾向于强调谚文（谚文本身就是一种令人印象深刻的书写体系），但学生在中学左右至少学习一些汉字，这很重要。
日本和韩国学生通常被要求学习2000~3000个汉字，尽管大多数汉字在原子层级上是由相同的基本线条（笔划）和其它部分组成并变得复杂起来的。汉字构成的分子层面可以认为是一般的字根，不包括基本笔划（比如：一丨丿丶乛乚乙 ……)除了汉语，在不同国家的语言之间，字根的数量在某种程度上也有所不同，但数量在很大程度上介于一百到二百多个之间（一些字根系统甚至有三百个或更多，尽管这些通常可能是基础字根的变体）。
网上有一些讨论文言文的地方和资源。有趣的是，我看到一些比较，以及一些表明文言文可以通过编程[语言]的视角来观察的想法。我发现的一个网址就是油管上David Branner的一篇题为“被称为文言文的编程语言”的演讲。尽管如此，来自中国和周边国家的受过良好教育的人至少有能力阅读一些文言文，并且至少对给定段落的意思有一个基本的了解（可能类似于对要点的总结）。
Steven Lee (李揚靈)
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

It depends, short answer is the vast majority of them can’t.
An average Japanese person at most recognizes 2000 Kanji, a Korean knows much less than that. It generally requires around 5000 or above Kanji/Hanja to read Classical Chinese articles. Most people can read a few words but can’t grasp the full picture of a comprehensive article due to the lack of enough vocabulary.
But both counties have a large number of Sinologists who can read and write Classical Chinese. I don’t know much about Korea but Japan has a lot of Chinese study institutions, the most prestigious domains are Chinese history, Tunhuangology, Tibetan and Yangmingism. Other than that, some Japanese writers have a profound understanding of Chinese history and language. Here are some famous Japanese writers that I know belong to this club.

夏目漱石 (Natsume Sōseki )
森秀樹 (漫画家) (Hideki Mori )
司馬遼太郎 (Ryōtarō_Shiba )
井上靖 (Yasushi Inoue)
田中芳樹 (Yoshiki Tanaka)

…

这要看情况，简短的回答是绝大多数人不能。
一个普通的日本人最多能认识2000个汉字，而一个韩国人认识的要少得多。阅读文言文一般需要认识5000或以上的汉字。大多数人只会读几个词语，但由于缺乏足够的词汇，无法掌握一篇综合性文章的全貌。
但两国都有大量能读写文言文的汉学家。我对韩国了解不多，但日本有很多中国研究机构，最著名的领域是中国历史、敦煌学、藏学和阳明学。除此之外，一些日本作家对中国历史和语言有着深刻的理解。这里有一些我知道属于这个范畴的日本著名作家。
夏目漱石 (Natsume Sōseki )
森秀树 (漫画家) (Hideki Mori )
司马辽太郎 (Ryōtarō_Shiba )
井上靖 (Yasushi Inoue)
田中芳树 (Yoshiki Tanaka)

……
Tom Karlsson
That's not true that a Japanese person at most recognises 2,000 kanji. 2,000 is the minimum required when graduating high school, but the vast majority of Japanese know a lot more, usually 3,000-4,000 and sometimes even more.

你说日本人最多只能认识2000个汉字，这说法不对。2000个是高中毕业的最低要求，但绝大多数日本人知道的要多得多，通常是3000-4000，有时甚至更多。

Sophia Shin
I’m a Korean. And the answer is close to no.
We do have classical Chinese character classes since we are in elementary school up until high school in many cases, although it’s like, one hour a week. We get to know the basics, and not knowing the basic characters could be a drawback in everyday lives in some circumstances or when reading the newspaper.
But no, that doesn’t mean that we can read almost everything, nor does it mean that we can read full sentences at once fluently. And we forget the hard ones as we age, mostly.
Yes, many of the Korean words are made from classical Chinese, but they are almost always written down by the Korean alphabet Hangeul. It would be practical to know some classical Chinese in order to guess the meaning of some unfamiliar Korean words but otherwise, it’s simply unpractical when Korean alphabet exists.

我是韩国人。答案几乎是否定的。
从小学到高中，很多时候我们都有文言文课，虽然比如，每周一小时。我们只知道一些基本的汉字，在日常生活中的某些情况下或阅读报纸时，不了解基本汉字可能会成为一个缺陷。
但是，不，这并不意味着我们可以阅读几乎所有的东西，也不意味着我们可以流利地一次性阅读完整的句子。随着年龄的增长，我们通常会忘记那些比较难的汉字。
是的，很多韩语单词都是从文言文中来的，但它们几乎都是用韩语字母谚文书写的。为了猜测一些不熟悉的韩语单词的意思，了解一些文言文是可行的，但如果有韩语字母存在的话，读懂文言文是不现实的。