美国人真的生活在“月光”之中吗？

greatteachermichael
Washingtonian in Korea
paycheck to paycheck doesn't necessarily mean people don't have good incomes. It just means that people aren't saving. Now, some people might not save because they have poorly paying jobs. On the other hand, you could earn $100,000 a year and still spend all your money every week on expensive junk you don't need and live paycheck to paycheck.
The problem is, when you live in a wealth country like the US, your expectations are higher. In fact, our average poor person earns above the average global wage, even after adjusting for a higher cost of living. However, that person is still poor by American standards. It's really hard to save in a country when you're expected to have internet, a cell phone, a TV, an education, a computer, a car, car insurance, live on your own and not in multigenerational housing, etc. etc. As incomes go up, the potential to save also goes up, but so does people's expectations so they spend their new disposable incomes on better/higher quality/more stuff. I remember reading an article about how making $400,000/year for a family of 4 shouldn't make people think all their problems were solved and then they broke down someone's budget. It had things like a "cheap" $80,000 car for the mom, $400/month piano lessons for each kid, $2,000/month on food, $2,500/month (every month!) on clothing... it was really really BS.
So in a way, it isn't as bad as it sounds, but at the same time, it is.

（华盛顿人在韩国）
靠工资维持生计并不一定意味着人们没有一个好的收入。它只是意味着人们没有储蓄。有些人可能因为他们的工作收入很低而没有储蓄。另一方面，你也可以每年赚10万美元，但仍然每周把所有的钱花在你不需要的昂贵的垃圾上，过着靠下个月工资维持生计的生活。
问题是，当你生活在像美国这样的富裕国家时，你的期望值会更高。事实上，我们的普通穷人的收入高于全球平均工资，即使在经过较高的生活成本的调整之后依然如此。然而，按照美国的标准，这个人仍然是穷人。在一个国家，当你被期望拥有互联网、手机、电视、教育、电脑、汽车、汽车保险、自己住而不是多代同堂的住房时，真的很难储蓄。随着收入的增加，储蓄的潜力也在增加，但人们对生活质量的期望也在增加，所以他们把新的可支配收入花在更好/更高质量/更多的东西上。我记得读过一篇文章，说一个四口之家每年赚40万美元，不应该让人们认为他们所有的问题都解决了，然后他们分析了其中某人的预算，里面包括一些东西，如妈妈的8万美元的"廉价"汽车，每个孩子400美元/月的钢琴课，2000美元/月的食品，2500美元/月（每个月！）的衣服......这真的是非常扯淡。
所以在某种程度上，它并不像听起来那么糟糕，但同时，它也是事实。

PatrickRsGhost
Georgia
This. So much this. The economic psychology of most Americans is "spend, spend, spend" when they have the income to "spend, spend, spend". Even if you're making minimum wage, the mindset is to spend, spend, spend.
Some people do save money, but deep down they hate doing it. They want to buy new clothes, new electronics, new furniture, and everything else RIGHT NOW. They'll pay the necessary bills and debts, buy the necessities like food and personal hygiene products, but if there's even a single penny left over, they'll find ways to spend it.
And this is one of the major reasons as to why so many Americans are in debt. They don't save the money necessary to buy some things they may need on down the road, or for "a rainy day". Some don't even budget properly. They only budget for what they know they have to pay/purchase; things that are relevant or evident. They'll budget for rent/mortgage, utilities, groceries, gas, and other bills (car payment, credit card payment, etc.). But they don't budget for car repairs, for medical expenses (including prescxtions), or other routine-but-not-as-routine-as-the-other-stuff expenses. This dangerous way of thinking is one of the main causes to such a high amount of debt in this country. "Unexpected" expenses such as routine car maintenance or major repairs, medical expenses, and the like are put on the credit card rather than paid for in cash or debit card.

（乔治亚州）
就是这样。太多这样的事了。大多数美国人的经济心理是"花钱、花钱、花钱"，当他们有收入可以"花钱、花钱、花钱"时。即使你挣的是最低工资，心态也是花钱，花钱，花钱。
有些人确实在省钱，但在内心深处他们讨厌这样做。他们想现在就买新衣服，新电子产品，新家具，以及其他一切。他们会确保能支付必要的账单和债务，购买食品和个人卫生用品等必需品，但如果有哪怕是一分钱的剩余，他们都会想办法花掉。
这就是为什么这么多美国人负债的主要原因之一。他们没有存下必要的钱来购买一些他们可能以后需要的东西，或者为了"未雨绸缪"而存钱。有些人甚至没有正确的预算。他们只为他们知道必须支付/购买的东西做预算；与之相关或明显的东西。他们会为房租/抵押贷款、水电、杂货、汽油和其他账单（汽车付款、信用卡付款等）做预算。但他们不会为修车、医疗费用（包括处方）或其他常规但不像其他东西那样常规的费用做预算。这种危险的思维方式是造成这个国家如此高额债务的主要原因之一。例行的汽车保养或大修、医疗费用等"意外"支出被记入信用卡，而不是用现金或借记卡支付。

3AM_Dreaming
Got it.
You know, most of the comments are negative here regarding the current US economy but and all I've got is that the average life in the US is pretty much the same as in Serbia. Except that you guys can maybe occasionally afford tech, vacation or whatever toys you want or occasionally travel. So that's a big plus for the US.
Due to NATO bombing and sanctions economy here in 2021 is kinda bad so the average salary is around 500$. With that money, you cover bills with let's say 200-250$ and you spend 50-100$ for food. And you have about 150$ at most just for yourself if you ain't paying a house/apartment. That means treating yourself with vacations, Playstation, iPhone, an amazing car, or whatever is out of the reach for an averige Serbian. That kinda bothers me as a 28-year-old man. I LOVE this country but I guess I gotta leave somewhere If I wanna experience nicer things in life as an average worker.But then again you guys do not have healthcare and that's a big plus for Serbia.
Overall: I guess life is not perfect anywhere and that there is the truth to the "paycheck to paycheck" I see on the internet but that it MIGHT be a bit overblown. Things are rough for many. Things could be worse for others.

我懂了。
你知道，这里的大多数评论都是关于当前美国经济的负面评论，但我所得到的信息是，美国的平均生活与塞尔维亚的基本相同。除了你们也许偶尔能买得起科技产品、度假或任何你们想要的玩具，或者偶尔能旅行。所以这对美国来说是一个很大的好处。
由于北约的轰炸和制裁，2021年这里的经济有点糟糕，所以平均工资是500美元左右。有了这些钱，你可以用200-250美元来支付账单，你可以花50-100美元购买食物。如果你不支付房子/公寓，你最多有150美元给自己。这意味着用假期、PS游戏机、苹果手机、漂亮的汽车或其他什么东西来犒劳自己，对于一个普通的塞尔维亚人来说是遥不可及的。作为一个28岁的男人，这让我有点困扰。我喜欢这个国家，但我想如果我想作为一个普通工人体验生活中更美好的东西，我必须离开某个地方。
总的来说：我想生活在任何地方都不是完美的，我在网上看到的"从这个月工资到下个月工资"的说法是有道理的，但可能有点夸大了。对许多人来说，事情很艰难。对其他人来说，情况可能更糟。

ggill1313
Texan in MA/RI
all I've got is that the average life in the US is pretty much the same as in Serbia. Except that you guys can maybe occasionally afford tech, vacation or whatever toys you want or occasionally travel. So that's a big plus for the US.
I'm not sure I'd agree with this.
Most people, yes, do go to work to make a living. They have bills to pay and budgets to watch, and perform some calculus to know if they can afford to do XYZ with the money they have "left over." But when reading this:
That means treating yourself with vacations, Playstation, iPhone, an amazing car, or whatever is out of the reach for an averige Serbian.
It seems to me that maybe you're not understanding some of the nuance.
A lot of people here are living "paycheck to paycheck" precisely because they've indulged in not just one, but all of these things. They take that vacation, they buy the Playstation, the iPhone, the car they want, etc. It's not a thought of, "Well maybe I can get one of these." It's, "I'm going to get all of these" even if it means having "no money" "left over" at the end of the pay period.
My brother has a house, a new Xbox, a new iPhone, car, etc., but splits these bills with his wife. They can afford these things, and he's making far less than I am.
I guess the difference is that the majority of us have something else we're working for other than mere subsistence. Some people are about to buy that new console, or an iPad, or a new couch or whatever. Most people have their eye on that next something.
If the Internet has convinced you that the average American is living like the average Serb, then I'm not sure you've yet gathered the correct picture.
And I have healthcare. I pay $400 a month for it for a max out-of-pocket cost of $1,000 for the year.

（在马萨诸塞州/罗得岛州的德克萨斯人）
“我所知道的是，美国的平均生活与塞尔维亚的基本相同。 除了你们也许偶尔能买得起科技产品、度假或任何你们想要的玩具，或者偶尔能旅行。所以这对美国来说是一个很大的好处。”
我不确定我是否同意你这个观点。
大多数人，是的，确实依靠每个月的工资生活。他们有账单要付，有预算要看，并进行一些计算，以了解他们是否能用"剩余"的钱做XYZ。但是当读到这里时：
“这意味着用假期、PS游戏机、苹果手机、漂亮的汽车或其他什么东西来犒劳自己，对于一个普通的塞尔维亚人来说是遥不可及的。”
在我看来，也许你没有理解其中的一些细微差别。
这里的很多人"靠下个月工资生活"，正是因为他们不只是沉迷于其中一个，而是所有这些东西。他们去度假，买PS游戏机，买苹果手机，买他们想要的车，等等。这不是一个"好吧，也许我可以得到其中的一个"的想法。而是"我要得到所有这些"，即使这意味着在下个月发工资之前"没有钱"会"剩下"。
我哥哥有一栋房子，一个最新的Xbox，一个最新的苹果手机，汽车，等等，但与他的妻子分担这些费用。他们能负担得起这些东西，而他的收入却远远低于我。
我想区别在于，我们中的大多数人除了单纯的生存之外，还有其他的为之工作的目标。有些人即将购买新的console游戏机，或iPad，或新的沙发或其他东西。大多数人都在关注下一个东西。
如果互联网让你相信，普通美国人的生活就像普通塞尔维亚人一样，那么我不确定你是否真的理解了这件事。
而且我有医疗保健。我每月支付400美元，一年的最高自付费用为1000美元。

GreatLookingGuy
you don’t have healthcare
We have healthcare lol. I’m sorry I actually laughed out loud when I read that. We have some problems with access to healthcare for some people. Millions of people. But the country consists of about 350M people most of whom have plenty of healthcare.
In fact, as a legal immigrant, if you come to a major city, NYC for example, you will almost certainly get free healthcare immediately. If you continue to earn below a certain salary, you will continue to receive free healthcare. If you find a higher paying job, your healthcare will stop being free and youll need to pay for insurance. Every employer I’ve worked for has provided it. But your experience may vary.

“你没有医疗保健”
我们有医疗保健服务，笑。对不起，当我读到这句话时，我真的笑出声来了。我们有一些人在获得医疗保健方面存在一些问题。可能数以百万计的人在这方面有问题。但这个国家由大约3.5亿人组成，其中大多数人有大量的医疗保健。
事实上，作为一个合法移民，如果你来到一个大城市，例如纽约市，你几乎肯定会立即得到免费医疗。如果你的收入继续低于一定的工资，你将继续获得免费医疗服务。如果你找到一份更高薪的工作，你的医疗保健将不再是免费的，你将需要支付保险。我工作过的每一个雇主都提供这种服务。但你的经验可能有所不同。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

3AM_Dreaming
Yes, I know that I just worded that horribly :D Apologies.

是的，我知道我犯了个大错:D 在此道歉。

Listlesslix
What we don't have is access to affordable healthcare. 2/3 of personal bankruptcy is now due to medical debt

我们没有的是获得负担得起的医疗保健。现在2/3的个人破产是由于医疗债务造成的

myopicdreams
It depends greatly on your standards for healthcare. If you have state insurance your quality of healthcare is far lower than when you have decent health insurance.
If you want a pediatrician who is gentle and kind and you can get your kid in for care that day if they are feeling bad and don’t want to have to wait for hours in a crowded waiting room you need good health coverage.
If you want a pediatric dentist who offers nitrous for procedures instead of strapping them down and traumatizing them while they do drilling you need good insurance.
Same with childcare. I have 2 toddlers who couldn’t tell me if they were being mistreated so I pay 20$ an hour for a sitter instead of less for an in home daycare because I live next to a daycare center and hear kids crying and screaming all day long— I can’t imagine having to put my kids into a place like that but I know many people don’t have a choice. Hell, I don’t make enough money to afford much childcare and am constantly exhausted because I would rather stay home with them and know they aren’t being abused/neglected. It’s a crappy situation for people who don’t have a high salary but don’t want their kids to be subject to trauma.

这在很大程度上取决于你对医疗保健的标准。如果你有的是国家保险，那么你的医疗质量就远远低于你有体面的健康保险时。
如果你想要一个温柔善良的儿科医生，如果你的孩子感觉不舒服，你可以在当天就去看病，而且不想在拥挤的候诊室里等上几个小时，你就需要良好的健康保险。
如果你想要一个能为手术提供氮气的儿科牙医，而不是在他们打洞的时候把他们绑起来给他们造成创伤，你需要良好的保险。
儿童保育也是如此。我有两个蹒跚学步的孩子，他们无法告诉我他们是否受到了虐待，所以我花20美元一小时请保姆，而不是花更少的钱在家里做日托，因为我住在一个日托中心旁边，整天听到孩子们的哭声和尖叫声，我无法想象必须把我的孩子放在那样的地方，但我知道许多人没得选。该死的，我赚的钱不够多，负担不起托儿所的费用，而且一直很累，因为我宁愿呆在家里陪他们，知道他们没有被虐待/忽视。对于那些没有高薪但又不希望自己的孩子受到创伤的人来说，这是一个糟糕的情况。

Kingsolomanhere
Indiana
My son is a supervisor at a manufacturing facility and can't believe how many people working there do not have savings accounts. One woman who has worked there for 20 years recently had a 2000 dollar financial problem. She makes 35 dollars an hour (over 70,000 a year, but with overtime most there make at least 85,000) and has nothing saved. In one part of the plant, skilled operators are making 150,000 a year, they don't tend to save either. They just buy expensive trucks and blow their money on toys

（印第安纳州）
我的儿子是一家制造厂的主管，在那里工作的而人没有储蓄账户的人多到让他难以置信。一位在那里工作了20年的妇女最近出现了2000美元的财务问题。她每小时赚35美元（一年超过7万，但加上加班费，那里的大多数人至少赚8.5万），却没有任何存款。在工厂的一个地方，熟练的操作员一年赚15万，他们也不倾向于储蓄。他们购买昂贵的卡车，把钱花在各种玩意儿上。

ChopperJones10
South Carolina
That is insanity

（南卡罗来纳州）
这太疯狂了

Kingsolomanhere
Indiana
Most people can't see that all good things come to an end. When you're in the midst of the party you don't think about the hangover

（印第安纳州）
大多数人看不到所有美好的事物都会有一个结束。当你沉浸在聚会中时，你不会想起宿醉的问题。

redline380
Minnesota
This will hold true for someone making $15/hr or $50/hr. The issue isnt income but rather living within your means.

（明尼苏达州）
这对一个挣15美元/小时或50美元/小时的人来说都挺正常的。问题不在于收入，而在于是否量入为出。

AshamedofMyFarts
No, that is not the issue Jeusus fucking Christ. That's what everyone who doesn't understand or hasn't experienced it for themselves tells themselves to make themselves feel better and not have to take any action. The issue is mainly predatory buisness practices, full stop.

不，完全提莫的不是这个问题。这么说的都是那些不了解或没有亲身经历过这种事然后这么跟自己说，以使自己感觉更好，而不必对现实采取任何行动的人。这里面的问题主要是掠夺性商业行为，句号。

naliedel
Michigan
This! 100% this.

（密歇根州）
没错！百分之八正确。

AshamedofMyFarts
Unfortunately the smooth brains are committed to putting it all on individuals and have convinced themselves it's the only issue. You don't have to take action, feel guilty, or do anything to change how society is run if you convince yourself that every person who didn't make it just simply did it to themselves. Like, "they were lazy and didn't work hard enough" or "they just don't know how to save or live within their means." These statements tell me that these people cannot relate with the one's going through hardships. They do not understand, nor do they care when they just dump it all on individuals and say "pErsOnAl aCcOuntAbIlity"! It's disgusting frankly. I can only assume they're spoiled people who's success can primarily be attributed to their parents striking it big during a time when people could.

不幸的是，那些没有皱褶的大脑致力于将这一切归咎于个人，并使自己相信这是唯一的问题。如果你说服自己，每一个没有成功的人都只是简单的自作自受，那么你就不必采取行动，感到内疚，或者做任何事情来改变社会的运行方式。比如，"他们很懒，工作不够努力"或"他们只是不知道如何储蓄或量入为出"。这些说法让我明白，这些人无法与正在经历困难的人产生共鸣。他们不理解，也不关心，他们只是把一切都归咎于个人，并说"自身问题"！坦率地说，这很恶心。我只能假设他们是被宠坏的人，他们的成功主要归功于他们的父母在人们可以成功的时候大展身手。

redline380
Minnesota
Ah yes, everyone else's fault but your own?
Use some self accountability.

（明尼苏达州）
是的，全都是别人的错，除了你自己没有错？
请有一点自省精神。

AshamedofMyFarts
Bro, I make six figures. Try having a conversation instead of doing exactly what I called you out for, and that was dismissing the problem by putting it all on individuals.

兄弟，我赚的是六位数。并试着与社会对话，而不是像我所说的那样，把问题全部归咎于个人，从而否定真正存在的问题。

Ihateregistering6
GA-VA-OK-WA-Germany-CA-TX-CO-NC
I hate to say this because it's going to come across as extremely classist, but I do think that culturally there is sort of this mindset in a lot of the US where people are often encouraged to spend money they get on expensive (and ultimately frivolous) things. And I think this is REALLY prent among the lower class.
When I was in the Army, I used to see it all the time with Soldiers who just got huge signing bonuses (we're talking $40-$50K), and instead of saving or investing it they would immediately go out and buy a new expensive car. And I'm not even necessarily talking about the 19 year old guys; even older guys in their late 20s-early 30s who re-upped would do similar things.
I have a good friend who grew up dirt poor and has done an amazing job of breaking the poverty cycle. He's single with no kids (by choice) and makes plenty of money, yet he never has very much money because he's constantly buying expensive toys (sometimes it seems like he has a new car every year).
I don't know if it's 'keeping up with the Joneses" or what, but I've seen it often.

我不想这么说，因为这会让人觉得很阶级偏见，但我确实认为，在美国的很多地方，文化上有这样一种心态，人们经常被鼓励把得到的钱花在昂贵（最终是轻浮）的东西上。我认为这在下层阶级中是非常普遍的。
当我在军队时，我经常看到那些刚拿到巨额签约奖金（我们在这里说的是4-5万美元）的士兵，他们没有储蓄或投资，而是立即出去买一辆新的昂贵的汽车。我甚至不一定是在谈论19岁的人；即使是20多岁至30多岁的老兵在重新加入时也会做类似的事情。
我有一个好朋友，他从小就很穷，在打破贫困循环方面做得很好。他是单身，没有孩子（自己选择的），赚了很多钱，但他的钱从来都不多，因为他一直在买昂贵的玩意儿（有时看起来他每年都有一辆新车）。
我不知道这是否是"跟风"还是什么，但我经常看到这种情况。

Kingsolomanhere
Indiana
I don't think it's a bad take, some people just are spendthrifts and others think you can buy happiness and self worth. I had one friend who used to eat out fast food every meal and buy pop and snacks at convenience stores and vending machines. When he finally really looked at prices and how much money was going out the door he stopped doing it. He lives a lot better than before

（印第安纳州）
我不认为这是件坏事，有些人只是单纯的花钱大手大脚，有些人则认为你可以买到幸福和自我价值。我有一个朋友，以前每餐都在外面吃快餐，在便利店和自动售货机上买汽水和零食。当他最终真正看清价格和花了多少冤枉钱时，他就不再这样做了。然后他的生活比以前好多了

AshamedofMyFarts
they don't tend to save either. They just buy expensive trucks and blow their money on toys
I want to push back on this a bit. Because your statement frxs the problem as being on each individual not saving rather than seeing the common denominator effecting the whole sequence. Inflation, price gouging, product manipulation, planned obsolescence in manufacturing and design, etc., etc. It's a world of businesses seeing other businesses being cut throat and getting away with it. They say "I want more money too!!" And they start scheming ways to make more money on the same products they're already selling. That slowly squeezes the middle and lower classes out of their money.

“他们也不倾向于储蓄。他们只是买昂贵的卡车，把钱花在各种玩意儿上。”
我想对这个问题做一些反驳。因为你的陈述将问题归结为每个人不进行储蓄，而不是看到影响所有这些事情的共同点：通货膨胀、价格欺诈、产品操纵、制造和设计中的计划性淘汰等等。这是一个企业看到其他企业被割喉并能顺利逃脱的世界。于是他们说："我也想要更多的钱！"然后他们开始想办法在他们已经销售的相同产品上赚更多的钱。这就慢慢地把中产阶级和下层阶级的钱榨干了。

M8asonmiller
Phx to Salem, Oregon
Marx wrote about six hundred billion pages about this. It's tempting to say he predicted the future but the fact is he simply realized all this shit was happening in his time and wondered how these dynamics develop, propagate, evolve, and ultimately collapse. Working-class people in 1871 were also feeling trapped between falling wages and rising rents. This isn't a bug, it's a feature.
Also I just want to say that if you're some kind of employer who's speculating on why your employees don't seem to be able to save their money, the answer is inside yourself.

（从凤凰城到俄勒冈州塞勒姆）
马克思写了大约数不清的关于这个的文章。说他预测了未来很吸引人，但事实是他只是意识到所有这些狗屎在他的时代正在发生，并想知道这些动态如何发展、传播、演变和最终崩溃。1871年的工人阶级也感到被困于工资下降和租金上涨之间。这不是一个错误，而是一个特点。
另外，我只想说，如果你是某种雇主，正在猜测为什么你的员工似乎不能存钱，答案就在你自己身上。
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MDB642
Arizona
I have a cousin that makes about 75k a year his wife also works. he has one kid and lives in a low cost state and still lives paycheck to paycheck.it’s because he is terrible with money, but he’s got a lot of cool toys.

（亚利桑那州）
我有一个表弟，年薪约7.5万，他的妻子也在工作。他有一个孩子，住在一个低生活成本的州，仍然过着从这个月工资到下个月工资的生活。这是因为他对钱的使用很糟糕，但他有很多很酷的玩意儿。

mycatisamonsterbaby
Alaska
54% of Americans make less than 75K annually. With taxes, that comes to around 4K a month. Which is probably fine for a single person. But a family in my area would need - approximately $1000/month for homeowners insurance and property tax, $350/car payment, $1600+ mortgage payment for a three bedroom, health insurance ($500 for a family), student loans (variable), food (Snap pays $850 for a family of four, so let's use that), clothing, school trips, gasoline, car insurance, utilities, and then the stuff that rich people think is optional for poors, like entertainment and leisure time, household goods like toilet paper and cleaning products, copays on medication, hygiene products, and phone/internet.

（阿拉斯加州）
54%的美国人年收入低于7.5万。加上税收，每月约为4K。这对一个单身人士来说可能还不错。但在我所在的地区，一个家庭需要--大约1000美元/月的房主保险和房产税，350美元/车贷，1600美元以上的三居室按揭付款，医疗保险（一个家庭500美元），学生贷款（不固定），食品（Snap为一个四口之家支付850美元，所以让我们用这个数字）。服装、学校旅行、汽油、汽车保险、水电，然后是富人认为穷人可以选择的东西，如娱乐和休闲时间、卫生纸和清洁用品等家庭用品、药物、卫生用品和手机/互联网各种乱七八糟的东西的费用。