法国：英国没有支付其承诺的解决移民过境问题的5400万英镑
France: UK has failed to pay £54 million it promised to tackle migrant crossings
译文简介
“如果我只做了一半的工作，我也不会得到一分钱的。”
正文翻译
France: UK has failed to pay £54 million it promised to tackle migrant crossings
-Channel Rescue said in the last two weeks it had spotted, from the cliffs of Dover, Border Force officials practising controversial pushback tactics.
法国：英国没有支付其承诺的解决移民过境问题的5400万英镑
——海峡救援队称，在过去的两周里，他们发现边境部队官员在多佛的悬崖上练习有争议的推搡战术。
-Channel Rescue said in the last two weeks it had spotted, from the cliffs of Dover, Border Force officials practising controversial pushback tactics.
法国：英国没有支付其承诺的解决移民过境问题的5400万英镑
——海峡救援队称，在过去的两周里，他们发现边境部队官员在多佛的悬崖上练习有争议的推搡战术。
(A group of people thought to be migrants are brought in to Dover by Border Force)
（一群被认为是移民的人被边境部队带到多佛）
内容简介：
法国部长敦促英国信守承诺，称英国用于帮助法国解决移民过境问题的5400万英镑承诺没有兑现。
内政部长杰拉尔德·达尔马宁在周六访问敦刻尔克后表示，“（英国）没有支付一欧元”。
尽管夏末气温下降，超过1000人还是乘上小船，在两天内进行了危险的横渡英吉利海峡的旅程。
在由于天气恶劣，船只无法横渡海峡的10天之后，至少40艘船只在周五和周六设法抵达了英国。
今年早些时候，英国政府承诺向法国提供数百万英镑，以支持法国阻止移民过境的努力。
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I don't really understand why thr UK think the French should really care that some people want to leave France and go to the UK. If the tables were turned and stacks of people were trying to get out of the UK and go somewhere else, wouldn't we just wave them off and be happy about it?
我真的不明白为什么英国人认为法国人应该关心一些想离开法国去英国的人。如果情况反过来，一大群人都想离开英国去别的地方，我们难道不应该直接挥手让他们离开，并为此感到开心吗？
Because the alternatives tend to hit French businesses (fines and issues for ferry and haulage operators, shifting routes to the Netherlands etc..). This isn't a case of France being able to just ignore it, there would have to be a UK response and that'd hurt France (And specifically hurt groups that are relatively influential politically). That's why France and the UK have generally found ways to cooperate.
因为其他选择往往会打击法国企业（对轮渡和运输运营商的罚款和问题，转移到荷兰的航线等等）。这不是法国可以忽视的情况，英国必须做出回应，这将伤害法国（特别是伤害在政治上相对有影响力的团体）。这就是为什么法国和英国大体上已经找到了合作的方式。
Tbh it would be piss money away as the French have never done an overly good job at this. I honestly don't think they care and never have.
说实话，这是浪费钱，因为法国人从来没有在这方面做得太好。老实说，我认为他们不在乎，也从来没有在乎过。
Could it be most of the immigrants who come here have some basic English or have friends or family already here? It makes sense if someone's looking for work to go to a country where you know a little of the lingo and have people for support. More people internationally learn English than French or Spanish, cause of the empire and English being the international language.
是不是大多数来这里的移民都有一些基本的英语你能力，或者已经有朋友或家人在这里了？如果有人在找工作，去一个你懂一点行话并且有人提供支持的国家是有道理的。在国际上，学习英语的人比学习法语或西班牙语的人多，原因是“大英帝国”以及英语是国际语言。
To be fair... France haven't exactly held up their side of this either.
公平的说……法国也没有尽到自己的义务。
They prevented a bit less than half of all boat crossings in a year with record numbers of attempted crossings and in return the Tories have apparently paid them £0 of the £54 million they promised. Clearly the Tories want the French authorities to stop any attempts to prevent further crossings in order to manufacture another "crisis" to rally their base around.
他们在一年内阻止了不到一半的船只越境，试图越境的人数创下了记录。作为回报，保守党显然只向他们支付了5400万英镑中的一分钱。显然，保守党希望法国政府拦下任何越境企图，以阻止进一步越境从而制造另一场“危机”来团结他们的根基。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Is there any evidence that France have been this effective other than France saying so?
With record numbers of boats hitting our shores I'm struggling to believe they have put much effort into this at all...
I'm not sure what the motivation is either. France don't want these people after all.
It might be time to learn something from Daddy Trump and threaten france with higher taxes on french imported goods. It did wonders when Trump threatened Mexico with this.
除了法国自己说的，有任何证据表明法国是如此有效的吗？
随着创纪录数量的船只抵达我们的海岸，我很难相信他们在这方面投入了很多精力……
我也不知道动机是什么。法国根本不想要这些人。
也许是时候向特朗普爸爸学习，对法国的进口商品征收更高的税了。当特朗普用这个办法威胁墨西哥时，它确实很神奇。
Is there any evidence that France have been this effective other than France saying so?
It's in the article you're replying to if you read it.
It might be time to learn something from Daddy Trump and threaten france with higher taxes on french imported goods. It did wonders when Trump threatened Mexico with this.
The UK is not the US and France is not Mexico, plus the UK is really not in a position to be able to start a trade war right now.
“除了法国自己说的，有任何证据表明法国是如此有效的吗？”
如果你读了，会发现答案就在你回复的报道里。
“也许是时候向特朗普爸爸学习，对法国的进口商品征收更高的税了。当特朗普用这个办法威胁墨西哥时，它确实很神奇”
英国不是美国，法国也不是墨西哥，而且英国现在真的不具备发动贸易战的条件。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The UK is literally about to start a trade war with the entire EU, mate. You not been following the NI protocol debacle as of late?
老兄，英国真的要和整个欧盟打贸易战了。你最近没有跟踪北爱尔兰的协议吗？
It's in the article you're replying to if you read it.
It says there's been 65 arrests and 13500 stopped crossings, but "stopped" probably just means delayed in real terms. These people are not being arrested, there's nothing stopping them trying again and again until they get through.
The UK is not the US and France is not Mexico, plus the UK is really not in a position to be able to start a trade war right now.
We absolutely are in that position. Stick a tax on their wine, their cheese, their cars... It would be game over in 2 weeks.
“如果你读了，会发现答案就在你回复的报道里”
他们说，已经有65人被捕，13500人被拦阻过境，但“拦阻”可能只是实际意义上的延误。这些人没有被逮捕，没有什么能阻止他们一次又一次地尝试，直到他们成功穿越海峡。
“英国不是美国，法国也不是墨西哥，而且英国现在真的不具备发动贸易战的条件”
我们绝对有这个能力。只要对他们的酒、奶酪、汽车征税……比赛将在两周内分出胜负。
It says there's been 65 arrests and 13500 stopped crossings, but "stopped" probably just means delayed in real terms.
I mean stopped means stopped. And if you compare the number of stopped crossings with the number of successful crossings it's clearly just a bit less than half, not bad considering how much coast they have to cover.
These people are not being arrested, there's nothing stopping them trying again and again until they get through.
That's because the only people committing a crime here are the people traffickers. It's not illegal for asylum seekers to either leave France or to attempt to enter the UK, not under either British, French or international law.
We absolutely are in that position. Stick a tax on their wine, their cheese, their cars... It would be game over in 2 weeks.
Okay sure mate.
“他们说，已经有65人被捕，13500人被拦阻过境，但‘拦阻’可能只是实际意义上的延误”
我想说是拦阻就是拦阻。如果你比较一下拦阻穿越的次数和成功穿越的次数，前者显然不到一半，考虑到这些穿越要覆盖多少海岸，这和成果已经不错了。
“这些人没有被逮捕，没有什么能阻止他们一次又一次地尝试，直到他们成功穿越海峡”
那是因为在这里犯罪的只有蛇头。无论根据英国法律、法国法律还是国际法，寻求庇护者离开法国或试图进入英国都不违法（所以你不好抓他们）。
“我们绝对有这个能力。只要对他们的酒、奶酪、汽车征税……比赛将在两周内分出胜负”
好吧，肯定能分出胜负的，小哥。
Sure, we're not a position to do it at all and if they actually follow through it's going to be fucking disastrous for the UK. This guy is arguing that Britain can just scare France into submission by wielding the threat of our economic might and obliterating their cheese exports or something.
当然，我们根本没资格这么做，如果他们真的这么做了，那对英国来说将是tmd灾难性的。这家伙是在说：英国可以通过将我们的经济实力当成威胁来恐吓法国，让法国屈服，消灭他们的奶酪出口之类的。
Bitch, u already can't keep the shelves full in the supermarkets. U proposing tariffs on French imports. Ur deluded.
碧池，超市里的货架已经空缺了。你还在提议对法国进口商品征收关税。你真是大聪明。
This guy would rather make enemies out of our closest allies than have us lift a fucking finger to solve the problems we've literally created ourselves.
这家伙宁愿把我们最亲密的盟友成为敌人也不愿让我们动手解决我们自己制造的问题。
What a pathetically arrogant comment this is. We aren’t the US. France aren’t Mexico, their economy is essentially the same size as ours is and not only that, they have the entirety of the EU behind them. If we did that, the EU would slap us back with so many tariffs our heads would spin.
Taking a lesson from your, ‘daddy trump’ when he tried to bully the EU, an entity of a similar size and development and not Mexico, it didn’t work nearly as well.
Stop learning all of your politics from Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson YouTube videos.
这是多么可悲的傲慢评论啊。我们不是美国。法国不是墨西哥，他们的经济规模基本上和我们一样，不仅如此，他们还有整个欧盟在背后支持他们。如果我们这么做了，欧盟会以高得让我们头晕目眩的关税回击我们。
从你的“特朗普爸爸”那里吸取教训吧，当他试图欺负欧盟时——欧盟是一个规模和发展水平相似的实体，而不是墨西哥，它没有起到同样的作用。
不要再从本·夏皮罗和乔丹·彼得森的YouTube视频中学习你的政治观点了。
They want the money when the number of crossings have soared this year. The money is contingent on the French cracking down.
他们在今年的越境人数激增的时候想要钱。这笔钱取决于法国的打击行动。
£54m is peanuts in the scheme of things, if France has to choose between stopping boat crossings for free or waving the boats off and wishing them good luck in the UK which do you think they're going to go for?
对于这些议程，5400万英镑是微不足道的，如果法国必须在拦阻移民过海峡和让船只在英国停靠并祝他们好运之间做出选择，你认为他们会选择哪一个？
They weren’t stopping them when they believed they were going to be paid. If I hire a neighbour to mow my lawn and the grass is higher than it’s ever been, I don’t give a toss if it’s been sunny. They didn’t do the job, they don’t get the money.
当他们相信他们会得到报酬时，他们并没有阻止那些移民。如果我雇了一个邻居来给我修剪草坪，但草长得比以前更高了，那我也不会在乎是不是晴天。他们没完成任务，所以就拿不到钱。
If I only did half of my job I wouldn't be paid a penny too.
如果我只做了一半的工作，我也不会得到一分钱的。
France wasn't stopping any boat crossings? That's a hell of a claim, presumably you can prove that claim right?
法国没有阻止任何船只过境？这是一个该死的主张，想必你可以证明这个主张，对吗？
Not the guy you quoted, and "any" isn't something I think anyone could prove but, with things like this constantly being shown, well yeah, I wouldn't pay them either.
不是你引用的那个人，我认为“任何”也不是任何人能证明的东西，但是，像这样的情况不断出现，好吧，是的，我也不会给他们钱的。
The article you yourself posted includes this quote from the Home Office:
"Joint co-operation with the French has led to nearly 300 arrests, 65 convictions and prevented more than 13,500 crossings."
Whereas the chart in the article puts the number of successful crossings at 17,805. A rough estimate then is that they managed to prevent around 43% of crossings which isn't exactly nothing, hard to see France continuing to put any effort into stopping crossings if it looks like the UK isn't going to send any of the funding that was promised.
你自己转载的文章中引用了内政部的话：
“与法国的联合合作已经导致近300人被捕，65人被定罪，阻止了超过13500人越境。”
而文章中的图表显示成功穿越的数量为17805。粗略估计，他们成功阻止了大约43%的越境船只，这并不是什么大不了的事，如果英国不打算提供承诺的资金，那么就很难看到法国继续努力阻止越境行为。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
If I recall, 1000 migrants left from France in the last 2 days alone...
Ignoring the UK entirely here, Frances treatment of migrants has been appalling for years, and they've been willing to fuck up their own towns because of it, they just don't care, so I'm not putting any stock in what they say they will do, until they've done it.
The claim you're pointing to also specifically states "joint efforts" so no way to know how much France has done, and it's been shown time and again since at least 2016 they look the other way and have even pushed them across our side.
Lastly, the article also states
Mr Rycroft was also unable to tell the Commons Home Affairs Committee when, or if, the policy – instigated in a bid to tackle the number of crossings to the UK – would be put into practice.
I don't for one minute claim our government do a good job, constantly claiming the opposite, but France does not or ever prove themselves and barely act as an ally at times. If it was any other of our neighbours I'd be more forgiving and have more confidence. The problem with our incompetent government means we get a lot of people putting all of the blame everytime on them excusing other countries, when in reality, it's not always ours.
如果我没记错的话，仅过去两天就有1000名移民从法国出发了…
在这里先完全抛开英国不谈，多年来法国对待移民的方式令人震惊，他们愿意为此把自己的城镇搞得一团糟，他们根本不在乎，所以我不相信他们说的他们会做什么，除非他们真的做了。
你所指的声明还明确表示“共同努力”，所以没有办法知道法国做了多少，至少从2016年以来，这一次又一次显示，他们对移民过境视而不见，甚至还主动把他们推到我们这边。
最后，文章还指出：
“莱克罗夫特也无法告诉下议院内政事务委员会，这项旨在解决入境英国人数问题的政策何时或是否会付诸实施。”
我从来没有哪怕一分钟说过我们的政府做得很好，一直在说相反的话，但法国没有或者从来没有证明过自己，有时也几乎不充当盟友。如果换成是我们的其他邻居，我会更宽容，更有信心。我们无能的政府的问题在于，我们让很多人每次都把所有的责任都推到他们身上，并为其他国家开脱，而实际上，这并不总是我们的责任。
I'm well aware of France's track record when it comes to the mistreatment of migrants and asylum seekers and I'm not trying to argue that they're blameless in all of this but I think it's absurd to try to justify withholding all of the £54 million funding that was promised on the basis that they didn't manage to stop every crossing when clearly serious efforts have been made that resulted in nearly half of all crossings being stopped in a year when the number of overall attempts is at a record high.
The reality is that if we break our promise here France will be incentivized to actively ignore all crossings, something the Tories are fully aware of. It really seems like they're trying to manufacture a "crisis" to rally their base.
我很清楚法国在虐待移民和寻求庇护者方面的记录，并且我并不是说他们在这一切中是无可指责的，但我认为，试图以他们并没有设法阻止每一起越境（但显然他们已经做出了认真的努力，这导致在尝试过境的总次数达到了创纪录的水平的一年中近一半的越境都被阻止了）为理由证明拒绝承诺的所有5400万英镑资金是合理的，是荒谬的。
现实情况是，如果我们在这里食言了，那么将被鼓励积极忽略所有越境行为，这一点保守党完全清楚。看起来他们真的在试图制造一场“危机”来团结他们的政治基础。
I'd argue that they haven't stopped even 43% given it's reasonable to assume many of the 13.5k stopped tried again and are in the 17.8k successful.
我认为他们甚至没有组止43%，因为有合理的假设：这被拦下的1.35万移民中的很多人又进行了第二次尝试，然后成功了，被算进了那1.78万成功越境的人中了。
I mean you can try to argue that if it makes you feel better but in reality they stopped 43% of attempted crossings in a year with a record number of crossing attempts, which strongly refutes the argument that they're doing nothing. And at any rate what do you expect them to do to prevent people from trying to cross again? They can't lock people up for attempting to leave France.
我的意思是，如果这能让你感觉更好，你可以试着去争辩。但事实上，他们在尝试穿越的次数创下了记录的一年中阻止了43%的试图穿越的人，这有力地反驳了“他们什么都没做”的说法。不管怎么讲，你希望他们做些什么来阻止人们再次试图穿越呢？他们不能因为只是想离开法国就把人关起来。
They can ask them to claim asylum or deport them if they refuse. These people entered Schengen illegally after all. They don't have visas to be there legally.
If all of those 13.5k (and lets face it some of those will be repeat attempts) eventually made it to UK then the French attempts to stop them amounted to fuck all. Might as well just let them go on the first attempt if they are going to get away on the second or third anyway.
他们可以要求这些人申请庇护，如果他们拒绝，也可以将他们驱逐出境。毕竟这些人是非法进入申根区的。他们没有合法居留的签证。
如果所有的1.35万人（让我们面对现实，其中一些将会重复尝试）最终到达了英国，那么法国试图阻止他们的尝试就等于tmd无效。如果他们在第二次或第三次尝试中都能逃脱，那么不妨让他们第一次尝试就成功好了。
I can't speak for France but in the UK the courts have ruled that asylum seekers also have the legal right to enter a country without permission in order to pass through it on the way to a specific destination, I can find the ruling if you'd like. Now clearly this ruling doesn't apply to France but presumably they've either ruled the same or they haven't specifically ruled against it, unless you know of a specific ruling I'm unaware of? If not then clearly France has no legal obligation to lock up and deport asylum seekers passing through their country if they choose not to. And why would they go to the cost and effort of locking all these people up and deporting them just to secure UK borders for us? Especially since we've just left the EU and have a government that is actively hostile to both France and the EU in general, not to mention the fact that we're refusing to pay them the paltry sum we promised to subsidize those border control efforts which in of itself would be only a fraction of the cost of what you're calling for. What you're talking about is just not remotely realistic.
我不能代表法国发言，但英国法院裁定，寻求庇护者也有合法权利在没有许可的情况下进入一个国家，以便在前往特定目的地的途中通过该国家，如果你愿意，我可以找到那个裁决。现在很明显这个裁决并不适用于法国，但是他们可能做出了相同的裁决或者他们没有做出反对的裁决，除非你知道一个我不知道的裁决？如果没有，那么显然法国没有法律义务去关押和驱逐那些选择不去他们国家的寻求庇护者。为什么他们要花这么多钱和精力把这些人关起来，然后把他们驱逐出境，就为了保护我们的英国边境？尤其是我们刚刚离开欧盟，有一个对法国和欧盟都怀有敌意的政府，更不用说，我们拒绝支付我们承诺的补贴边境控制努力的微不足道的金额，这本身只是你们要求的成本的一小部分。你说的根本不现实。
They're not obliged to do any sort of job, asylum seekers crossing from France into the UK is not a crime.
他们没有义务做任何工作，寻求庇护者从法国越境进入英国又不是犯罪行为。
They are if they want the 54 million they are complaining about not getting.
如果他们想要他们抱怨得不到的5400万，那么他们就有义务。
A task that the UK wants the French to do. Trying to play hardball over this just gives France zero incentive to continue. We've seen the quality of the British government's negotiation skills aplenty, I'm not optimistic that anything useful with happen here.
这是英国希望法国来完成的任务。试图在这一问题上采取强硬态度只会让法国没有继续做下去的动力。我们已经见识过英国政府的谈判技巧了，我并不乐观，不会有什么有用的事情发生的。
I would've thought they could pay that off with the 50 million they cut out of international aid every month
我本以为他们可以用他们每个月从国际援助中削减的五千万来偿还的
France are going to force the UK into summoning the Kraken.
This won't end well.
法国将迫使英国召唤北海巨妖。
这不会有好结果的。
This kills two birds with one stone for the Tories, they can blame France for the boat crossings and drum up more anti-EU sentiment and then they can use the increased number of boat crossings to drum up more anti-immigrant sentiment. It rallies their base and let's them manufacture more issues for them to pretend to solve. Seems like they're burning every available bridge in exchange for short term gains in public support.
这对保守党来说是一石二鸟，他们可以把越境甩锅给法国，激起更多的反欧盟情绪，然后他们可以利用越境船只的增加来激起更多的反移民情绪。这聚集了他们的基础，让他们制造了更多假装解决了的问题。看起来他们为了获得短期的公众支持而绝了所有的前途。
France has an election in Spring, just so you know.
法国将在春天举行大选，所以你懂的。
Which will change nothing since Le Pen has no chance.
这不会改变什么，因为勒庞已经没有机会了。
But if you want to get the nationalists on your side then beating up the Brits is always a winner. The Tories are milking Brexit for all it's worth so why shouldn't they.
但如果你想让民族主义者站在你这边，那么“打败英国人”永远是赢家。保守党正在充分利用英国脱欧的好处，所以他们为什么不这么干呢？
I don't get it are you implying that they're lying about not receiving the £54 million? Seems like an easily disproven lie if so.
我不明白你是在暗示他们没有收到5400万英镑是在撒谎吗？如果是这样的话，这似乎是一个很容易被推翻的谎言。
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How much did we pay for Ronaldo? And he can’t even drive a truck.
我们花了多少钱给罗纳尔多开工资？他连卡车都开不了。
Maybe this is not his job to drive a truck, what do you think of that? Same as truck drivers don’t get paid to play football.
也许开卡车不是他的工作，你觉得呢？就像卡车司机踢足球也是拿不到钱的。
Granted, So 54m seems a fair price for what we are getting in return.
当然，5400万美元对于我们所得到的回报来说似乎是一个合理的价格。
But what percentage of truck drivers do you think yell at the screen telling the multimillion pound players they don't know what they're doing and the ref is ruining their team. Then wake up in the morning and complain how their team lost unfairly etc.
但你认为有多少卡车司机会对着屏幕大喊，告诉身价数百万英镑的球员他们不知道自己在做什么，裁判正在毁掉他们的球队。然后早上醒来，抱怨他们的球队是如何不公平地输掉比赛的等等。
What is your point? Are lorry drivers not allowed to be football fans?
你想表达什么？卡车司机不能成为球迷吗？
To me personally, football is a most overpriced dog shit. No wonder why in UK every kid wants to be a footballer. Easy money.
对我个人来说，足球是最昂贵的狗屎。难怪在英国，每个孩子都想成为足球运动员。他们的钱来得太容易了。
If it’s so easy I presume you’re a Premier League striker?
They also pay 50% tax on their wages so they’re a huge boost to the economy.
What an odd thing to get pissed about. 1/3 of kids in the U.K. live in poverty, watching their parents break their backs for minimum wage, so I’m not exactly surprised that they dream of a well paying job doing something that they enjoy.
如果真这么容易，我猜你是一个英超前锋？
这些球员还支付50%的工资税呢，所以他们对经济有巨大的推动作用。
有什么好生气的。在英国，三分之一的孩子生活在贫困中，看着他们的父母为了最低的工资而辛苦劳作，所以我对他们梦想着做自己喜欢的高薪工作（当足球明星）并不感到惊讶。