欧盟司机将不理睬鲍里斯·约翰逊提出的以英国脱欧签证解决英国汽油危机的呼吁

BurnedRopeTyne and Wear
Bloody foreigners not coming over here and stealing our jobs.

该死的外国人居然不来这里偷走我们的工作了。

twillems15
I hope they don’t come over. Doing so would be letting the government off the hook & giving them an easy way out.

我倒是希望他们不要过来。他们来的话会让政府轻易摆脱困境，给他们一条容易的出路（导致他们不思进取）。

ScaredyCatUK
We need about 100,000 drivers. Allowing 5000 isn't going to fix much.
Why would they want to come back here anyway. We treated them like shit, told them to fuck off back where they came from.
This country needs to suffer before any kind of healing begins.

我们需要大约10万名司机。允许5000人过来也解决不了什么问题。
他们为什么要回来呢。之前我们不把他们当回事，还让他们滚回自己的地盘去。
这个国家就该在任何形式的愈合之前品尝一下痛苦。

DogBotherer
This country needs to suffer before any kind of healing begins.
Problem is that we've been saying that about voting right/neoliberal since the '70s, but this country has still lost about 50% of its potential growth and the bottom 80% have lost orders of magnitude more, and yet there is still no sign that the average voter is any closer to learning their lesson.

“这个国家就该在任何形式的愈合之前品尝一下痛苦”

PeterG92Essex
No matter what amount of suffering though there will be a lot of people who refuse to admit Brexit has been a failure.

不管品尝了多大的痛苦，都会有很多人拒绝承认英国脱欧是失败的。

szymonsta
Brexit is a failure, but the issues we're seeing are not just down to it, it's more to do with the effects of covid, giving people time to reflect on their life and higher wages on the continent.
People came over to the UK as they could make 5x - 10x more than they could make at home, but now, wages in those countries have picked up, and that pull factor has pretty much gone. So there's fewer people that are keen to move, and a whole lot have moved back, Brexit intensified that trend, but it was already in play.
With covid, people had a chance to examine the type of work they wanted to do, and with government payments, they had the time to do it. Many decoded that working shitty hours, for low pay, whilst facing unremunerated danger, and/or shitty customers just isn't worth it, so retrained.
Despite what the cretins that work as 'journalists' will tell you about jobs being 'low skilled' with disdain for people that do them dripping from their utterances, pretty much all jobs are high skilled ones. We've simply run out of people that have those skills.

英国脱欧是失败的，但我们看到的问题不仅仅是因为它，还更多地与新冠肺炎的影响有关，（疫情的封锁）让人们有时间反思自己的生活和欧洲大陆的更高工资。
人们来到英国，是因为他们可以在这里挣到比在家乡5到10倍的钱，但现在，这些国家的工资已经回升，这个拉动因素几乎消失了。因此，越来越少的人愿意过来，很多人都搬回了本国，英国脱欧加剧了这一趋势，但它已经（在脱欧前）开始发挥影响了。
有了新冠疫情（封锁），人们有机会检视自己想干的工作类型，并且有了政府补贴，他们也有时间去做。许多人认为，工作时间糟糕、工资低、面对无报酬的危险和/或糟糕的客户是不值得的，所以重新接受了培训。
尽管那些“记者”会告诉你什么是“低技能”工作，并从他们的话语中流露出对从事这些工作的人的蔑视，但几乎所有的工作都是高技能工作。我们只是跑光了具备这些技能的人了。

twillems15
Completely agree. I’d much rather them stay in the EU & get treated better. Obviously I hope the industry start to buck up their ideas in this country & improve working conditions of our drivers too.

完全赞同。我宁愿他们留在欧盟，得到更好的待遇。显然，我希望这个行业开始在这个国家提振他们的观念，并改善我们司机的工作条件。

0235
I know someone who runs a lorry driving school. They are about to go bankrupt because of all the restrictions the government introduced about 6 months ago, to limit how many people they can take on to instruct.

我认识一个开卡车驾校的人。他们即将破产，因为政府在6个月前推出了限制他们可以招生的人数的限制措施。
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Gloomy-Gazelle-9324
Isn't it companies who to blame here? Not increasing salaries so that local HGV license holders would consider coming back? Providing free HGV training for free to young people? Government has been quite clear with the message that the salaries should meet expectations of the local workforce.
The other thing? Service stations in UK are just disgrace, dirty and faulty showers and toilets. Only food available is KFC at the best. Go to Germany and Poland and compare the levels of service stations there.

这难道不应该怪公司吗？不提高工资，让本地的卡车驾照持有者考虑回来？为年轻人提供免费的卡车驾照培训？政府已经明确表示，工资应当满足当地劳动力的期望。
另一个因素吗？英国的服务站简直就是耻辱、肮脏和有缺陷的淋浴和厕所。最好的食物是肯德基。去德国和波兰比较一下那里加油站的水平吧。

Extreme_Kale_6446
Surprise surprise, people from Eastern Europe can go to Germany without a visa application, visa fee, NHS surcharges etc. Eastern Europe is poor but far too wealthy for this

令人惊讶的是，东欧人去德国不需要签证申请、签证费、NHS附加费等等。东欧虽然贫穷，但免掉这些费用的话，还是绰绰有余的
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R_Jay101Greater Manchester
Yep. Eastern Europe isnt the post-soviet backwater it was 20 years ago. A lot of countries have a quality of life comparable to western Europe.

是的。东欧已经不再是20年前的后苏联时代的一潭死水了。许多国家的生活质量与西欧相当。

Remarkable-Prune-696
I did some basic research on seasonal workers before Brexit and if I remember correctly they were actually having some issues recruiting workers from the EU anyway. The minimum wage in the UK used to be like 10x the minimum wage of Bulgaria and Romania, but the difference has shrunk significantly in recent years. The focus shifted from Poland to the poorest countries in the EU, and even then they had to actively recruit and advertise benefits for workers.

在英国脱欧之前，我对季节性工人做了一些基础研究，如果我没记错的话，他们实际上在从欧盟招募工人方面遇到了一些问题。英国的最低工资曾经是保加利亚和罗马尼亚最低工资的10倍，但近年来二者差距已经显著缩小了。焦点从波兰转移到了欧盟最贫穷的国家，即使在那时，他们也必须积极招聘员工，并为员工的福利做广告。

profesorkind
I have a friend in Poland who’s a truck driver. He works in Germany. He drives there once a week, earns 3 times what he would in Poland and he’s back home every weekend. Why would he come to UK, apply for visa, pay for visa, pay NHS surcharge, queue for hours at the border, explain why he’s going there, be exposed to lack of facilities on the roads and not being able to come back for a weekend at home due to time/costs. That’s why there’s no petrol at the garages now.

我在波兰有个朋友是卡车司机。他在德国工作。他每周开车去一次，赚的钱是在波兰的三倍每个周末都回家。为什么他要来英国呢，申请签证，支付签证，支付NHS附加费，在边境排几个小时的队，给个理由他为什么要去那里，暴露在道路设施缺乏的情况下，由于时间和成本，他不能回家过周末。这就是为什么现在加油站没有汽油了。

0235
The other thing we are forgetting is a lot of migrant workers worked in the UK solely to move money back to their home country, and to their families (money that still stayed in the EU and made its way back to the UK!!!)
They don't want citizenship or free visas if they still have to pay 20%+ on money transfers back home!!!!

我们忘记的另一点是，许多移民工人在英国工作只是为了把钱搬回他们的祖国和家人（这些钱仍然留在欧盟，然后又回到了英国！！！）
如果他们仍然需要支付20%以上的汇款回国手续费，那他们就不会想要公民身份或免费签证！！！！
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maximhar
As a Bulgarian, most of the people working seasonal jobs in Europe/UK are young people from rural areas, often from disenfranchised minorities. Thing is, we have a rapidly aging population - so fewer young people each year, and heavy immigration either to the cities, or to richer EU countries, where they find permanently better quality of life.
So, all in all, the plenitude of cheap unskilled labour was a temporary occurrence because we are a country in economic and demographic transition... it's not something to rely on long term.

我是保加利亚人，在欧洲/英国从事季节性工作的大多数人是来自农村地区的年轻人，往往来自被剥夺权利的少数群体。问题是，我们有一个快速老龄化的人口——所以每年的年轻人越来越少，大量的移民涌入城市或更富裕的欧盟国家，在那里他们发现永久更好的生活质量。
所以，总而言之，大量的廉价非技术劳动力只是暂时现象，因为我们是一个经济和人口转型的国家……这不是可以长期依赖的东西。

CheesusCwitht
Yeah, a lot of the builders I spoke to when I was working in London were making plans to go back home. They were getting fed up of England and the growing hostility towards them. These guys were predominately Romanians and Albanians. The majority of the Polish went home years ago it seems.

是的，我在伦敦工作时交谈过的很多建筑商都在计划回家。他们受够了英国和对他们日益增长的敌意。这些人主要是罗马尼亚人和阿尔巴尼亚人。大多数波兰人似乎在几年前就回家了。

Haruto-KaitoDarlington
'They were getting fed up of England and the growing hostility towards them.'
They don't go home because of hostility, they can go home because of the cultural differences. My family came from Romania 7 years ago and UK seems a different world for many Romanians. Culture makes everything different. Romania is cultural closer to France, Italy, Spain and some Middle Eastern nations. Our political atmosphere is pretty much French and education is French system. Romanian writers and intellectuals of the 20th century were students in Paris or Vienna. We tend to party and gather together like Spaniards or Italians in churches or eachother homes. Romanians' wettest dream was always to live in Paris, Rome or Barcelona. The majority of Romanians came here in the UK for money and after few years they usually move back to Romania or go for retirement in a different European nation.
Someone from Hong Kong, Ghana or India has a higher chance to stay in the UK forever because of the colonial past and similarities in education, politics and language.

“他们受够了英国和对他们日益增长的敌意”
他们回家不是因为敌意，而是因为文化差异。我的家人7年前来自罗马尼亚，对许多罗马尼亚人来说，英国似乎是一个不同的世界。文化让一切变得不同。罗马尼亚在文化上更接近法国、意大利、西班牙和一些中东国家。我们的政治氛围基本上是法国式的，教育也是法国的体制。20世纪的罗马尼亚作家和知识分子都是巴黎或维也纳的留学生。我们喜欢像西班牙人或意大利人一样在教堂或彼此的家里聚会。罗马尼亚人最渴望的梦想一直是生活在巴黎、罗马或巴塞罗那。大多数罗马尼亚人来英国是为了钱，几年后他们通常会搬回罗马尼亚，或者在另一个欧洲国家退休。
来自香港、加纳或印度的人更有可能永远留在英国，因为英国对这些地方有殖民历史，在教育、政治和语言方面也有相似之处。
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CheesusCwitht
They do. I’m going off conversations I had with scaffolders, bricklayers, plumbers, electricians etc. I managed these people for 6 years and the overriding feeling was the UK wasn’t as hospitable a place as it was when they arrived. British builders would be openly racist on site. Loads of anti Eastern European graffiti etc. construction sites can be very hostile places especially. You can’t properly comprehend it until you’ve experienced it

他们敌视了。我和脚手架工人、砖瓦工、水管工、电工等交谈过。我管理这些人6年了，最主要的感觉是英国不像他们刚来的时候那么好客了。英国建筑商会在工地上公开种族歧视。大量的反东欧涂鸦等建筑工地可以是非常敌对的地方。只有亲身经历过，你才能真正理解它

particlegun
I'm sure plenty of them remember being stuck in the UK over xmas on an old airfield and motorways with little in the way of provisions.

我敢肯定，他们中的很多人都记得，圣诞节期间，他们被困在英国的一个旧机场和高速公路上，而且几乎没有食品供应。
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CaptainWanWingLo
This.
I read a post earlier from a retired hgv driver who said that the job was so much worse in the U.K. than in the eu.
In the U.K. there’s few places to park overnight, no clean facilities, crap food etc etc, and that’s apart from the lack of respect they have been getting.
Not sure why there’s no unx for them in the U.K., but at least the pendulum has finally swung the other way and market forces will rule once again.
Maybe conditions got so bad before because the driver’s were mostly from Eastern Europe and therefore nobody cared.

就是这样。
我之前读过一个退休的重型货车司机的帖子，他说英国的工作比欧盟的差多了。
在英国，几乎没有过夜停车的地方，没有干净的设施，垃圾食品等等，这还不包括他们一直得不到尊重。
不知道为什么英国没有他们的工会，但至少钟摆终于转向了另一边，市场力量将再次统治。
也许之前情况变得如此糟糕是因为司机大多来自东欧，所以没人在意。
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Embarrassed_Ant6605
I would like for just one journalist to ask this question to a haulage company,
‘How many drivers have YOU trained in the last 5 years?’
When I say trained I mean paid for training expenses and incentivised going in to the industry with bonuses etc

我想请一位记者向运输公司提问，
“在过去5年里，你们培训了多少司机？”
当我说培训时，我的意思是支付培训费用，并以奖金等方式激励进入这个行业

givememaw2005
Yes valid point but lets sweep that under the carpet as that then brings into question, wheres the profits been going? I say whos been trained in last 15years more over. Been in the game for last 20years, when i started i was the only 20year old driver i come across for years, and i was a tramp driver so i meet alot of other drivers from other firms all over the uk. The firm im at now up till 2 years ago was training their van drivers upto class1. They dont do it anymore yet.

是的，这个观点很有道理，但让我们把它掩盖起来，因为这会带来一个问题：利润都去了哪里？我说的是在过去15年多的时间里。我在这个行业已经20年了，当我开始工作的时候，我是唯一一个20岁的司机，我开了多年，并且我是一个长途司机，所以我遇到了很多来自英国其他公司的其他司机。我现在的公司直到2年前还训练他们的货车司机到class1驾照。但他们现在不再这样做了。

audigexLancashire
Why would you bother uprooting yourself and crossing most of the continent (because let's be honest, they don't mean "EU" drivers, we mean "Eastern European" drivers - this isn't about attracting French and Belgian drivers) for a few months work in a country that doesn't welcome you, delivering goods to the people who just voted specificially to make you unwelcome
And in any case, Eastern Europe has improved a LOT in even the last decade - we're simply not as attractive a destination as we used to be. Why come here when Germany/France are looking for drivers too and pay at least as well but with less hassle?

为什么你要在一个不欢迎你的国家工作几个月（因为老实说，他们说的不是“欧盟”司机，我们说的是“东欧”司机——这个政策不是为了吸引法国和比利时司机），并且横穿整个欧洲大陆去给那些专门投票让你不受欢迎的人送东西呢
不管怎么讲，东欧在过去的十年里已经进步了很多——我们已经不像过去那样有吸引力了。德国和法国也在招司机，至少也付同样的钱，但麻烦更少，所以为什么还要来这里呢？

MachaHack
Picture the scene:
You're a Polish truck driver. You'd been doing the trips from France to the UK and back for a few years and were renting an alright place on one side or the other. Sure you got the occasional racist dickhead to deal with, but you weren't going to uproot your life for that.
Well, you got stuck in the brexit chaos and clearly more people voted they didn't want you there than not. Does that mean more people agree with the dickhead than you thought. Do you have job security and visa security? So for surety you decided to get a job driving between France and Italy instead. No paperwork, no majority voting that the rules were too lax on you. And now you've settled into that. Is pay parity and a 3 month visa really going to convince you to go back?
Especially since given the demographics in the trucking industry and the economic trends of the last 10-15 years, a good number of them have to be considering aging parents and the increased pay back home compared to when they left, too.

描绘一下场景：
你是个波兰卡车司机。几年来，你一直在法国和英国之间往返旅行，并在一边或另一边租了一个不错的地方。当然偶尔会有种族歧视的混蛋需要你处理，但你不会因为这个而改变你的生活。
好吧，现在你陷入了脱欧的混乱，显然更多的人投了他们不希望你去那里的票。这是不是意味着赞同这个白痴的人比你想象的要多。你有工作保障和签证保障吗？所以你决定去找一份在法国和意大利之间开车的工作。没有书面手续，没有多数人投票认为规则对你太宽松了。现在你已经习惯了。所以工资平等和3个月的签证真的能说服你回英国吗？
特别是考虑到卡车运输业的人口结构和过去10-15年的经济趋势，很多人不得不考虑到年迈的父母和与离开时相比已经增加的本地工资。

DaiSuk3
Unemployed, experienced, professional driver from Greece here. I want to leave my beautiful and sunny country permanently because of the high rates of unemployment ( 37,5%) but sadly UK is not an option , Brexit is the reason and a temporary visa can only create feelings of uncertainty . Although I speak English almost fluently (Lower certificate of Cambridge, my teacher is British and my cousin's husband ) and I'd love to work and live in the UK , I'm currently learning the German language...

失业，有经验，从希腊来的专业司机。由于高失业率（37.5%），我想永远离开我美丽而阳光灿烂的国家，但遗憾的是，英国不是一个选择，原因是英国脱欧了，临时签证只会制造不确定性的感觉。虽然我的英语说得很流利（剑桥初级证书，我的老师是英国人，也是我表姐的丈夫），我也喜欢在英国工作和生活，但我目前正在学习德语……

CptSparks
Here in UK we are pretty much presented with a more optimistic news about the Brexit. Not many news portals write about the anger of EU citizens towards the Brits after the Brexit. Brexit was nothing else but f.u. to all the EU but mostly towards the Eastern Europeans. We - the people from the East - are people who like to hold to the grudges. We are poorer that Brits but this changes very fast. Why would we come to UK, pay for visas and NHS only to be reminded on daily basis that we are second class citizens and piss in the bottle while delivering food for the British? We can get similar or better money in Germany and there is no need for any visas... also Germans tolerate us much more that Brits do.
I came to UK from Poland in 2006. Didn't liked it a bit. Small houses. Terrible living conditions. Dirty streets and a lot of crime. Tottenham was my "starter home"... I remember that I was terribly shocked with the living standards in UK at first. Actually, I still am. I'm staying in UK because long time ago I have decide to make it my home and worked hard towards that goal. I'm writing about that only to make you understand that this is my home and I want it to be better. It is important to know it before reading the next sections of this post.
I believe that allowing for these temporary work visas is a wrong thing. Government is being pushed or lobbied by big transport organizations. They do that because they don't want to increase pay or better the work standards for the domestic drivers. I have read multiple articles about it and it seems like there are plenty of people who hold HGV type driving licenses. They just chose not to work in this profession. In my opinion we should confine ourselves to workers from UK only. Give them better work standards and increase their pay. This will resolve the problem. Otherwise over 50% of Brits have had their Brexit but quietly want to operate as if the Brexit never has happened and the work standards and pay in many fundamental professions will never improve.
Finally our approach to trade professionals must change in overall. They are the foundation of our civilization. Without farmers we would run butt naked in the forests looking for berries. Without builders we would live in caves. Without electricians we would sit in the dark. We prize doctors but in reality it is thanks to the plumbers we are less sick than before... don't believe me? Try living in cold and without water for a year. In my opinion we need to respect much more trade professionals (foreign and domestic), pay them better and give them much higher work standards...
... and this is the solution. Not emergency visas.

在英国，我们看到的是关于脱欧的更乐观的消息。没有多少新闻门户网站写过英国脱欧后欧盟公民对英国人的愤怒。英国脱欧对所有欧盟国家来说不过是“fuckU”，但主要是对东欧国家。我们——来自东欧的人——是喜欢记仇的人。我们比英国人穷，但这种情况改变得很快。为什么我们要来到英国，为签证和NHS买单，却每天被提醒我们是二等公民，在给英国人送食物的时候要拿瓶子（在驾驶室里）接尿？我们可以在德国得到类似或更好的工资待遇，还不需要任何签证……而且德国人比英国人更容忍我们。
2006年，我从波兰来到英国。我一点也不喜欢那里。小房子。可怕的生活条件。肮脏的街道和大量的犯罪。托特纳姆区是我的“起步房”……我记得一开始我对英国的生活水平感到非常震惊。事实上，我现在还是。我之所以留在英国，是因为很久以前我就决定把它作为我的家，并为此努力工作。我写这些只是为了让你明白，这是我的家，我希望它变得更好。在阅读这篇文章的下一部分之前了解它是很重要的。
我认为允许这些临时工作签证是错误的。大型运输组织正在推动或游说政府。他们这样做是因为他们不想提高国内司机的工资或提高工作标准。我读过很多关于它的文章，似乎有很多人持有重型货车类型的驾照。他们只是选择不从事这个行业。在我看来，我们应该只雇佣来自英国的工人。给他们更好的工作标准，增加他们的工资。这将解决问题。除此之外，超过50%的英国人已经投票脱欧了，但却悄悄希望，就好像脱欧从来没有发生过，许多基本职业的工作标准和薪酬永远不会提高一样。
最后，我们对待贸易专业人士的方式必须全面改变。它们是我们文明的基础。如果没有农民，我们就会在森林里光着身子跑来跑去找浆果。如果没有建筑者，我们将生活在洞穴里。如果没有电工，我们只能坐在黑暗中。我们重视医生，但实际上，多亏了这些管道工，我们的病比以前少了。不相信我吗？试着在没有水的寒冷环境中生活一年。在我看来，我们需要尊重更多的贸易专业人士（国内外都算），给他们更高的工资，给他们更高的工作标准……
……这才是解决方案。而不是什么紧急签证。

seamustheseagull
For your average British consumer, the future is bleak no matter what happens.
If the driver shortage continues, then scarcity of goods increases the cost of goods = massive inflation.
On the other hand you might break the driver shortage. But there aren't thousands of drivers just waiting to run into the UK. You're going to need big bucks to get them in. Average wages for a regular HGV driver will probably hit £50k, while tanker and other specialisations will probably be able to command £70k+ for a while. It's the only way you'll get people on the road.
And of course, huge increases in transport costs = massive inflation.
I certainly don't envy anyone who had planned to live in Britain for the next five years.

对于普通的英国消费者来说，无论发生什么，未来都是黯淡的。
如果司机短缺持续下去，那么商品的稀缺性就会增加商品的成本 = 大规模的通货膨胀。
另一方面，你可能会打破司机短缺的局面。但并没有成千上万的司机等着进入英国。你需要一大笔钱才能让他们进去。普通载重货车司机的平均工资可能会达到5万英镑每年，而油罐车和其他专业司机的工资可能会在一段时间内达到7万英镑以上。这是你让人们上路的唯一办法。
当然，运输成本的大幅增加 = 巨大的通货膨胀。
我当然不羡慕任何计划在未来五年生活在英国的人。

Mastodon_Solid
Will be interesting to see what happens when they have to put interest rates up to counter spiralling inflation….

当他们不得不提高利率以对抗螺旋式上升的通胀时，看看会发生什么将是很有趣的……