为什么波斯帝国在近800年的时间里不断地与西边的古罗马和希腊交战，却没有与东边的中国各朝各代交战呢?
Why did various Persian empires perpetually fight ancient Rome and Greece to the west for nearly 800 years but didn''t fight giant Chinese kingdoms and empires to their east?
译文简介
波斯并不是一直都在与希腊和罗马作战。
正文翻译
Why did various Persian empires perpetually fight ancient Rome and Greece to the west for nearly 800 years but didn't fight giant Chinese kingdoms and empires to their east?
为什么波斯帝国在近800年的时间里不断地与西边的古罗马和希腊交战，却没有与东边的中国各朝各代交战呢?
为什么波斯帝国在近800年的时间里不断地与西边的古罗马和希腊交战，却没有与东边的中国各朝各代交战呢?
评论翻译
Scott Newman, INTP, Studied Archaeology, visited 70 countries
Firstly - alas - too much of what we know about the various ancient Persian Empires comes from Greek and Roman source - think Herodotus - and so we hear a lot more about Persia’s relationship with Greece and Rome than that with everyone else. We have no idea about large parts of Persian history, and particularly Persia’s history with China.
Next, lets look at a ‘classic’ Persian Empire - it’s basically what is now Iran - projecting power into the neighbours when it’s strong. That means, Iraq, Armenia, Central Asia, Afghanistan, NW India. For the Persians controlling the arc of territory though Central Asia, Afghanistan and NW India was probably something like 80% of their military energy. A classic window onto this is that Alexander took more time and had more trouble stabilising this region under his rule than conquering the core of the Persian Empire itself!!!
So during the ‘good years’ Persian Empires were able to project power into places like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan, Sogdia and Bactria, On the other hand when China was strong it was able to project power into what is now Xinjiang, the Tarim basin land of the ancient Tokharians. The ‘definitive’ section of the Silk Road is between Sogdia/Bactria and the Tarim basin, so I assume the Persians had far more knowledge and contact with the Chinese than some give them credit for.
The mountain passes of the Hindu Kush between Bactria/Sogdia and the Tarim Basin are pretty serious, the land is remote, barely inhabited and has long cold winters. Both these powers were generally at their limits controlling ‘their’ side of the pass. Attempting to gain control of the other side of the pass was a major additional push and always a step too far and from what we know, rarely, rarely attempted. The passes are too high, the summers are too short and the distances without supplies are too long.
As for the east, the Achaemenid Persians did control what is now Pakistan and bits of India, Alexander turned up here to secure rule of this area and tried to push further into India - but fighting elephants was hard and his army had had enough and wanted to go home. The Achaemenid Persian Kings must have had many similar battles here that we know little or nothing about.
Next, under the Parthians this area, and Bactria and the Tarim came under the rule of the “Kushans” - which we know a little but not a lot about. What we do know is that from about 220 AD the Kushans were conquered by the Sassanids and until about 380 the Kushan ‘Shah’ was a client king of Sassanid Persia - perhaps even a relative of the Persian Shah, we don’t know. After that there is no evidence, but the NW Indian and Iranian spheres of influence always clashed in Bactria/Afghanistan.
After that there was often major cultural projection from Iran into Bactria /Afghanistan and occasional political power projection. And then many Afghan rulers established power over Pakistan and NW India - and that’s why the Taj Mahal is such a ‘Persian’ influenced building.
Scott Newman学过考古，拜访过70多个国家
首先，我们对各个古代波斯帝国的了解，太多资料都是来自希腊和罗马，唉，想想希罗多德吧。也因此，我们了解到的波斯与希腊和罗马的关系比与其他国家的关系多得多。我们对波斯的大部分历史都不了解，尤其是波斯与中国的历史。
Firstly - alas - too much of what we know about the various ancient Persian Empires comes from Greek and Roman source - think Herodotus - and so we hear a lot more about Persia’s relationship with Greece and Rome than that with everyone else. We have no idea about large parts of Persian history, and particularly Persia’s history with China.
Next, lets look at a ‘classic’ Persian Empire - it’s basically what is now Iran - projecting power into the neighbours when it’s strong. That means, Iraq, Armenia, Central Asia, Afghanistan, NW India. For the Persians controlling the arc of territory though Central Asia, Afghanistan and NW India was probably something like 80% of their military energy. A classic window onto this is that Alexander took more time and had more trouble stabilising this region under his rule than conquering the core of the Persian Empire itself!!!
So during the ‘good years’ Persian Empires were able to project power into places like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan, Sogdia and Bactria, On the other hand when China was strong it was able to project power into what is now Xinjiang, the Tarim basin land of the ancient Tokharians. The ‘definitive’ section of the Silk Road is between Sogdia/Bactria and the Tarim basin, so I assume the Persians had far more knowledge and contact with the Chinese than some give them credit for.
The mountain passes of the Hindu Kush between Bactria/Sogdia and the Tarim Basin are pretty serious, the land is remote, barely inhabited and has long cold winters. Both these powers were generally at their limits controlling ‘their’ side of the pass. Attempting to gain control of the other side of the pass was a major additional push and always a step too far and from what we know, rarely, rarely attempted. The passes are too high, the summers are too short and the distances without supplies are too long.
As for the east, the Achaemenid Persians did control what is now Pakistan and bits of India, Alexander turned up here to secure rule of this area and tried to push further into India - but fighting elephants was hard and his army had had enough and wanted to go home. The Achaemenid Persian Kings must have had many similar battles here that we know little or nothing about.
Next, under the Parthians this area, and Bactria and the Tarim came under the rule of the “Kushans” - which we know a little but not a lot about. What we do know is that from about 220 AD the Kushans were conquered by the Sassanids and until about 380 the Kushan ‘Shah’ was a client king of Sassanid Persia - perhaps even a relative of the Persian Shah, we don’t know. After that there is no evidence, but the NW Indian and Iranian spheres of influence always clashed in Bactria/Afghanistan.
After that there was often major cultural projection from Iran into Bactria /Afghanistan and occasional political power projection. And then many Afghan rulers established power over Pakistan and NW India - and that’s why the Taj Mahal is such a ‘Persian’ influenced building.
Scott Newman学过考古，拜访过70多个国家
首先，我们对各个古代波斯帝国的了解，太多资料都是来自希腊和罗马，唉，想想希罗多德吧。也因此，我们了解到的波斯与希腊和罗马的关系比与其他国家的关系多得多。我们对波斯的大部分历史都不了解，尤其是波斯与中国的历史。
接下来，让我们看看一个“经典的”波斯帝国，基本上就是现在的伊朗。当它强大时会向邻国投射力量。也就是说，伊拉克，亚美尼亚，中亚，阿富汗，印度西北部。对于波斯人来说，控制着中亚、阿富汗和印度西北的领土大约已占据80%的军事力量。一个典型的例子就是：亚历山大在他的统治下，稳定这个地区比征服波斯帝国的核心本身花费了更多的时间和困难!
所以在“丰年”，波斯帝国能够向乌兹别克斯坦、塔吉克斯坦、阿富汗、索格迪亚和巴克特里亚（译注：中亚古国，位于今天的阿富汗北部）等地投射力量，另一方面，当中国强大时，它能够向现在的新疆投射力量——古代托卡利亚人居住的塔里木盆地。丝绸之路的“决定性”部分在索格迪亚、巴克特里亚和塔里木盆地之间，所以我认为波斯人与中国人的认知和接触要比一些人认为的多得多。
位于巴克特里亚/索格迪亚和塔里木盆地之间的兴都库什山脉非常险峻，土地偏远，几乎没有人居住，而且有漫长的寒冷冬季。这两个大国一般都处于控制“自己的”关口的极限。试图控制山口的另一边需要庞大的额外推力，而且总是离我们太远且知之甚少，很少有去尝试。隘口太高，夏天又太短，无法提供补给的距离又太长。
2015年9月，我抵达海拔3700米的土尔尕特口岸
至于东方，在阿契美尼德治下的波斯曾控制了今天的巴基斯坦和部分印度，亚历山大出现在这里是为了巩固对这一地区的统治，并试图进一步向印度推进——但与大象战斗是艰难的，他的军队受够了，想要回家。阿契美尼德的波斯国王们肯定在这里有过很多类似的战争，但我们对这些战争知之甚少。
后来，这片地区在帕提亚帝国统治之下（译注：又名安息帝国），巴克特里亚和塔里木处在贵霜帝国的统治下（原文如此），我们对贵霜知之甚少。我们所知道的是，大约从公元220年起贵霜被萨珊王朝征服，直到大约380年一位贵霜国王成了萨珊波斯的国王——可能是原波斯国王的亲戚，我们不知道。之后就没有证据了，但是印度西北和伊朗的势力范围总是在巴克特里亚/阿富汗发生冲突。
在那之后，文化主要从伊朗向巴克特里亚/阿富汗投射，偶尔还有政治权力投射。然后，许多阿富汗统治者在巴基斯坦和印度西北部建立了政权。这就是泰姬陵是一座受波斯人明显影响的建筑的原因了。
Jason Almendra, Most Viewed Writer "Ancient Greece" 22Aug20
The Sassanids were actually allies with Tang dynasty China. When Heraclius allied with the Gokturks to attack Persia from the east. The Tang attacked the Gokturks. When the Gokturks were defeated. The Tang border actually got extended all the way to Persia until the Islamic Jihad conquered Persia & pushed back the Tang at the Battle of Talas river in Kyrgyzstan. The Sassanid heir was given asylum in China. He & his son served as generals in the Chinese army.
The Romans & later the Eastern Romans wanted to conquer Persia to monopolize the very profitable Silk Road. The flow of money was eastwards since Roman goods were not in demand. As long as the Persians were in the way. Romans would pay through the nose for Asian goods.
Jason Almendra
萨珊王朝实际上是中国唐朝的盟友。当赫拉克里乌斯（东罗马帝国皇帝）与突厥人结盟从东方进攻波斯时，唐朝进攻了突厥，突厥被打败了。实际上，唐朝的边界一直延伸到了波斯，直到伊斯兰圣战组织征服了波斯，并在吉尔吉斯斯坦的塔拉斯河战役中击退了唐朝。萨珊王朝的继承人在中国获得了庇护。他和他的儿子曾在中国军队担任将军。
罗马人和后来的东罗马人想要征服波斯，垄断利润丰厚的丝绸之路。由于对罗马商品没有需求，资金流向了东方。只要波斯人还在丝绸之路上，罗马人就愿意花大价钱购买亚洲商品。
Qi Chen, Electrical Engineer (2017-present)
This is what it looks roughly like.
To fight China, Persian Empire and the Chinese has to take battle somewhere to around the modern day Kazakhstan region, such is the case of the battle between Tang Dynasty and Abbasid Caliphate.
Battle of Talas - Wikipedia
For both empires, their capitals are more than 1000 miles away from the location (with Abbasid a bit closer at 1000 miles while Tang dynasty capital is about 1500 miles away). Not to mention the gigantic deserts in the way. This is enough to make any logistician cry.
Greece and Rome, on the other hand, are not only physically closer, they are also by mediterranean, which enables sea transportation of troops and supplies.
Qi Chen电气工程其(2017-至今)
这就是大致的样子。
为了与中国作战，波斯帝国和中国人不得不在现代的哈萨克斯坦地区附近的某个地方开战，就像唐朝和阿拔斯王朝之间的战争一样。
对于两个帝国来说，他们的首都都在1000英里以外的地方(阿巴斯首都略近约为1000英里，而唐朝的首都在1500英里之外)。更不用提路上漫无边际的沙漠了。这足以使任何一个后勤专家哭泣。
另一方面，希腊和罗马不仅距离较近，而且还靠近地中海，这使得军队和物资的海上运输成为可能。
Akshay Vasisht
The Persian Empire didn't make it past the Indus river.
波斯帝国也没有越过印度河（译注：今大部分位于巴基斯坦境内）
The Persian Empire didn't make it past the Indus river.
波斯帝国也没有越过印度河（译注：今大部分位于巴基斯坦境内）
Airyana To Iran, Have been doing reserches my whole life on Pre-Islamic Iran
First of all, as of what the Achaemenid Persians knew of the world, their knowledge of the east and of the Chinese kingdoms were inexistent. Which would explain why India was conquered but not China. Their conquestic mindset revolves around conquering the west, the Middle East as a whole. And as far as civilization went in Europe, Greece was the further most reachable civilization at their reach, not that there were any other civilizations past the Greeks in Europe at the time. After the fall of the achaemenid empire and of the quick corruption of Alexander’s empire or of the seulucid empire, the parthians, a semi nomadic Persian/Iranian tribe used the Persians empire’s fragility to conquer it rather than a Chinese empire standing strong on it’s feet. At the time, the Roman Empire had conquered the western part of Persia, so coming in contact was inevitable. A Persian/Roman war had commenced that would later on continue between the Byzantium and the Sassanid Persian empires. Fighting China during the long Persian/Roman war would be asking for a massacre. So rather than a war, China and the Sassanian empire had built a trust worthy relationship meanwhile focusing on retaking the land that was once theirs. Other than coincidence or than a lack of knowledge, the cause of nearly a thousand years of conflict between the Middle East and Europe was the result of a big coincidence.
Airyana To Iran,一直在研究前伊斯兰教的伊朗
首先，就阿契美尼德治下的波斯人对世界的了解而言，他们对东方王国和中国的了解是不存在的。这就解释了为什么印度被征服了，而中国没有。他们的疑惑心态围绕着征服西方和整个中东。
就欧洲而言，希腊是他们所能到达的最远的文明，当时也只能接触到欧洲的希腊文明了。阿契美尼德帝国覆灭后，亚历山大帝国或塞琉古帝国（注：位于今叙利亚附近）迅速堕落，帕提亚人，一个半游牧波斯/伊朗部落，利用波斯帝国的脆弱征服了它，它并非被强大的中国帝国所征服。
当时，罗马帝国已经征服了波斯的西部，所以接触是不可避免的。一场波斯和罗马的战争已经开始，后来在拜占庭和萨珊波斯帝国之间继续。在漫长的波斯和罗马战争中与中国作战就是在要求一场大屠杀。因此，中国和萨珊帝国建立了值得信任的关系，而不是一场战争，同时专注于夺回曾经属于他们的土地。
除了巧合或缺乏知识，中东和欧洲之间近千年的冲突的原因只是一个巨大的巧合。
Tim McClennen, works at Self-Employment
Because India was in the way
But what about fighting against India?
Well, they might well have. But, like so many white English speakers (and other Europeans), I mostly read sources translated from Greek or Latin. I simply don’t have easy access to Indian or Persian sources translated into my language.
But it seems reasonable that the various Persian dynasties would have had approximately equal conflicts on each side of their empire, moderated by terrain.
The other thing to consider is that the boarder between India and Persia is very mountainous. Which makes it harder to have conflict. Not that there aren’t mountains between Persia and Rome, but those are lower and more scattered.
因为印度挡在了路上。怎么对抗印度的？
嗯，他们很有可能攻击过，但是，和许多说英语的白人(以及其他欧洲人)一样，我大多阅读自希腊文或拉丁文翻译过来的资料。我不太容易能找到翻译成我的语言的印度或波斯语资料。
但是，各个波斯王朝在其帝国的每一边都有大致相同的冲突，这是合理的，只是由于地形的不同而有所缓和。另一件需要考虑的事情是，印度和波斯之间的边界是多山的。
这使得冲突更难发生。并不是说波斯和罗马之间没有山脉，而是这些山脉更低，更分散。
Because India was in the way
But what about fighting against India?
Well, they might well have. But, like so many white English speakers (and other Europeans), I mostly read sources translated from Greek or Latin. I simply don’t have easy access to Indian or Persian sources translated into my language.
But it seems reasonable that the various Persian dynasties would have had approximately equal conflicts on each side of their empire, moderated by terrain.
The other thing to consider is that the boarder between India and Persia is very mountainous. Which makes it harder to have conflict. Not that there aren’t mountains between Persia and Rome, but those are lower and more scattered.
因为印度挡在了路上。怎么对抗印度的？
嗯，他们很有可能攻击过，但是，和许多说英语的白人(以及其他欧洲人)一样，我大多阅读自希腊文或拉丁文翻译过来的资料。我不太容易能找到翻译成我的语言的印度或波斯语资料。
但是，各个波斯王朝在其帝国的每一边都有大致相同的冲突，这是合理的，只是由于地形的不同而有所缓和。另一件需要考虑的事情是，印度和波斯之间的边界是多山的。
这使得冲突更难发生。并不是说波斯和罗马之间没有山脉，而是这些山脉更低，更分散。
Bruce Gordon, studied Psychology at Kent State University (1976)
Geography. The Achaemenids, the Parthians, and the Sassanids all bordered directly adjacent to Hellenistic city states and, later, the Roman Empire. But they were physically separated from the Chinese hearth by what is arguably some of the roughest and most inhospitable terrain on earth: the Gobi, Tibet, the Altai Mountains, the Tian Shan Mountains, the Pamir Mountains, and the Kazakh Highlands. China did, in fact, extend a tendril westward through the Gansu Corridor on several occasions, but could not maintain that reach for long. And the wilderness beyond was always occupied by nomadic Khanates of various descxtions that acted as a buffer between Persia and China.
Bruce Gordon, 1976年在肯特州立大学学习心理学
因为地理位置。
阿契美尼德、帕提亚和萨珊王朝都与希腊城邦以及后来的罗马帝国接壤。但在地理上，它们与中国的中心地带被地球上一些最粗糙、最不适宜居住的地形所隔开:戈壁、西藏、阿尔泰山、天山、帕米尔山脉和哈萨克高原。事实上，中国确实有数次向西伸手穿过甘肃走廊，但都维持不了很长时间。而远处的荒野一直被各种各样的游牧汗国所占据，充当着波斯和中国之间的缓冲地带。
Geography. The Achaemenids, the Parthians, and the Sassanids all bordered directly adjacent to Hellenistic city states and, later, the Roman Empire. But they were physically separated from the Chinese hearth by what is arguably some of the roughest and most inhospitable terrain on earth: the Gobi, Tibet, the Altai Mountains, the Tian Shan Mountains, the Pamir Mountains, and the Kazakh Highlands. China did, in fact, extend a tendril westward through the Gansu Corridor on several occasions, but could not maintain that reach for long. And the wilderness beyond was always occupied by nomadic Khanates of various descxtions that acted as a buffer between Persia and China.
Bruce Gordon, 1976年在肯特州立大学学习心理学
因为地理位置。
阿契美尼德、帕提亚和萨珊王朝都与希腊城邦以及后来的罗马帝国接壤。但在地理上，它们与中国的中心地带被地球上一些最粗糙、最不适宜居住的地形所隔开:戈壁、西藏、阿尔泰山、天山、帕米尔山脉和哈萨克高原。事实上，中国确实有数次向西伸手穿过甘肃走廊，但都维持不了很长时间。而远处的荒野一直被各种各样的游牧汗国所占据，充当着波斯和中国之间的缓冲地带。
Robin Levin, works at Writers and Authors (2012-present)
The Persians did trade with the Chinese kingdoms via the silk road, but various high mountain ranges such as the Himalayas and Urals made an effective barrier for China, discouraging efforts of invasion and conquest.
Proximity made Greece a much more inviting target than China.
When China was invaded and conquered the invaders came from the north-Mongols and Manchus.
Robin Levin从事写作工作（2012-至今）
波斯人确实通过丝绸之路与中国王朝进行贸易，但各种高山，如喜马拉雅山和乌拉尔山脉，为中国提供了有效的障碍，阻止了侵略和征服的努力。
而相比于中国，希腊近在咫尺，这使得它成为比中国更有吸引力的目标。当中国被入侵和征服时，入侵者多来自北边的蒙古人和满人。
The Persians did trade with the Chinese kingdoms via the silk road, but various high mountain ranges such as the Himalayas and Urals made an effective barrier for China, discouraging efforts of invasion and conquest.
Proximity made Greece a much more inviting target than China.
When China was invaded and conquered the invaders came from the north-Mongols and Manchus.
Robin Levin从事写作工作（2012-至今）
波斯人确实通过丝绸之路与中国王朝进行贸易，但各种高山，如喜马拉雅山和乌拉尔山脉，为中国提供了有效的障碍，阻止了侵略和征服的努力。
而相比于中国，希腊近在咫尺，这使得它成为比中国更有吸引力的目标。当中国被入侵和征服时，入侵者多来自北边的蒙古人和满人。
Quora User, PhD Fellow Industry Engineering, Texas A&M University (1994)
Because the Himalaya mountain and desert separated South Asia with China, only merchants took the risk to travel along the silk road to make huge money. China has invented silk 3000 BC, and it is luxury and wonder, brought silk from China to Rome and profit was more than 100 times!
匿名
由于喜马拉雅山脉和沙漠将南亚与中国隔开，只有商人冒着风险沿着丝绸之路旅行以赚取巨额财富。中国在公元前3000年就发明了丝绸，这很奢侈和精美，把丝绸从中国带到罗马，利润是原价的100多倍!
Because the Himalaya mountain and desert separated South Asia with China, only merchants took the risk to travel along the silk road to make huge money. China has invented silk 3000 BC, and it is luxury and wonder, brought silk from China to Rome and profit was more than 100 times!
匿名
由于喜马拉雅山脉和沙漠将南亚与中国隔开，只有商人冒着风险沿着丝绸之路旅行以赚取巨额财富。中国在公元前3000年就发明了丝绸，这很奢侈和精美，把丝绸从中国带到罗马，利润是原价的100多倍!
相关链接
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