越南人真的没有从法国殖民统治中获益吗?-网帖翻译-龙腾网

Tim Tran, Vietnamese-born Chinese越南华裔

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It did, culturally, sort of.

从文化上来说，确实如此。

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Painting

绘画

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Pros: Vietnamese art flourished due to finally being able to preserve them in Vietnamese tropical weather. This allowed for spread of artistic culture, creating more arts that still exist to this day. French influence in Vietnamese art during this period was also apparent, and gave this period’s works very distinct and interesting colors, motifs, styles, and canvases.

好处:越南的艺术之所以繁荣昌盛，是因为它们终于能够在越南的热带气候下得以保存。这使得艺术文化得以传播，创造了更多至今仍存在的艺术。在这一时期，法国对越南艺术的影响也很明显，并赋予这一时期的作品非常独特和有趣的色彩、主题、风格和画布。

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Cons: A lot of native Vietnamese art devoid of French influence were destroyed or not preserved. Nguyễn imperial court had very vibrant art culture, but very little survive to this day due to war and thieves, all caused by Western powers. This means a huge chunk of native Vietnamese culture has been erased, and all Vietnamese people think of when they hear Vietnamese art are French-influenced works.

弊端:许多没有法国影响的越南本土艺术被破坏或没有保存下来。越南阮朝有着非常活跃的艺术文化,但由于战争和小偷很少存活到今天,所有这些都是由西方国家造成的。这意味着很大一部分越南本土文化已经被抹去，越南人如今所知晓的越南艺术都是受法国影响的作品。

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Language

语言

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Pros: Latin alphabet spread, allowing Vietnamese to be literate in an extremely fast rate, which also allowed Vietnamese to communicate with each other through writings, a huge factor in defeating foreign powers during this time. Modern Vietnamese are mostly literate through Latin system created and enforced by French and other Western missionaries. Due to this, Vietnamese literature flourished, including Vietnamese poetry, which reached new heights during New Poetry Movement. This also allows them to develop a new calligraphy culture that blends East Asian aesthetics with Latin alphabet.

好处:拉丁字母的传播，使越南人能够以极快的速度识字，这也使越南人能够通过文字书写交流，这在当时是打败外国势力的一个巨大因素。现代越南人大多通过由法国和其他西方传教士创建和实施的拉丁体系识字。越南文学的繁荣，包括越南诗歌，在新诗运动中达到了新的高度。这也让他们发展了一种新的书法文化，融合了东亚美学和拉丁字母。

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Cuisine

烹饪

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Pros: Bánh mì, some elements of Phở, Vietnamese coffee, and many more. They’re tasty. French influence greatly influenced Vietnamese cuisine, making it very dynamic and diverse.

好处:越南法包，越南米粉，越南咖啡，还有许多其他的食物。他们是美味的。法国极大地影响了越南菜，使它非常活跃和多样化。

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Cons: Can’t really think of anything now that isn’t just pure nitpick. The cuisine section is pretty solid.

弊端:现在真的想不出什么不是纯粹的吹毛求疵。对食物的影响都是相当不错的。

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Music

音乐

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Pros: French introduced new music genres from the West, the most influential being Bolero music. New musical instruments and singing techniques were introduced, allowing Vietnamese music to be more dynamic and diverse.

好处:法国从西方引入了新的音乐流派，其中最有影响力的是波莱罗舞曲。新的乐器和演唱技巧被引入，使越南音乐更加生动和多样化。

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Cons: Traditional Vietnamese music and instruments began to fade away, but then again, this is universal.

弊端:传统的越南音乐和乐器开始消失，但话说回来，这是非常普遍的。

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Architecture

建筑风格

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Pros: New architectural designs such as Gothic, Roman, and Baroque influenced Vietnamese architecture. Many East-West mixed architecture emerged, diversifying Vietnamese architectural designs.

好处:新的建筑设计，如哥特式，罗马式和巴洛克式影响了越南建筑。许多东西混合的建筑出现了，使越南的建筑设计更加多样化。

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There are a bunch more, which include a lot of politics, so I’ll stop there.

还有很多其他的影响，但因为涉及到很多政治因素，所以我就讲到这里。

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Giao Vu, had first-hand experience on the subject matter

对这个主题有第一手的经验

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Current-day Vietnam still bears many imprints from the French colonial rule. While I believe that French colonial rule was by a large margin a net negative for Vietnam, the rule did lead to some positives. Other answers have mentioned architecture/arts/language/food. I don’t have much to add on those. I’d like to add a few that I haven’t seen being mentioned:

今天的越南仍然有许多法国殖民统治的印记。虽然我认为法国的殖民统治对越南造成了很大的负面影响，但它也带来了一些正面影响。其他回答提到了建筑/艺术/语言/食物。我没有什么可补充的。我想补充一些我没有看到有人提到的问题:

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Government and Legal Systems:

政府和法律制度:

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For a long time, the goal of the French colonial education system was to educate the many lower-ranked administrators and clerks that were needed to help France run the colony. While the Vietnamese fought hard to end colonial rule, once achieving that they did not outright reject the French form of governing. For a long time, many officials in the governments of both North and South Vietnam were French-educated. Until this day, French influence can still be found in the Vietnamese legal system (a mixture of Napoleonic code with traditional Vietnamese and Communist law) and in its central government’s bureaucracy.

在很长一段时间里，法国殖民教育系统的目标是教育许多低级别的行政人员和文员，他们是帮助法国管理殖民地所需要的。虽然越南人努力结束殖民统治，但他们并没有完全拒绝法国的统治形式。很长一段时间，南越和南越政府的许多官员都接受过法国教育。直到今天，法国的影响仍然存在于越南的法律体系(拿破仑法典与传统越南和共产主义法律的混合体)和中央政府的官僚机构中。

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Language:

语言：

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The Vietnamese language borrowed many French words: ô tô (auto), kem (crème), ga (gare), bê tông (béton), xà lách (salade). The borrowings undeniably enrich the language.

越南语借用了许多法语单词:o to (auto)， kem (creme)， ga (gare)， be tong (beton)， xa lach (salade)。借用无疑丰富了语言。

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Some borrowings were not necessarily for the better: French influence had been stronger in South Vietnam. Back in the 1960s and early 1970s, Southern Vietnamese intellectuals liked to use French terms such as “moi” and “toi” in friendly conversations (instead of the then-disdained “tao” and “mày”). Such use died out after the Communist takeover - perhaps also because the non French-educated generation grew up. “Tao” and “mày” rule despite “I” and “you” making inroads.

有些借用不一定是好的:法国在南越的影响力更大。早在20世纪60年代和70年代初，越南南部的知识分子喜欢在友好的交谈中使用法语词汇，如“moi”和“toi”(而不是当时被鄙视的“tao”和“may”)。越共掌权后，这种使用就消失了——或许也因为非法国教育的一代长大了。“Tao”和“mày”恢复了使用，而“I”和“you”则被抛弃了。

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Saigon/Hanoi:

西贡/河内：

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Da Lat

大叻

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Peter Nguyen, Grew up in Vietnam, speak, read Vietnamese

在越南长大，会说，会读越南语

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Surely by now this sort of question should be settled once and for all.

到现在为止，这类问题应该一劳永逸地解决了。

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A list of countries with no colonial past in Asia: Thailand, Bhutan, Japan. Thailand is several times wealthier than Vietnam, and their Royal is the richest royal in the world; Bhutan is famous as a beautiful country with their own unique ‘Happiness Index’. While Japan, of course, is developed and the 3rd largest economy in the world.

亚洲没有殖民历史的国家:泰国，不丹，日本。泰国比越南富裕几倍，他们的皇室是世界上最富有的皇室;不丹是一个美丽的国家，拥有自己独特的“幸福指数”。当然，日本是发达国家，是世界第三大经济体。

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In conclusion, this question is like saying, without Hong Kong and other foreign concessions, China would not have been able to develop as she did

总之，这个问题就好比说，如果没有香港和其他外国租界，中国就不可能有现在这样的发展。

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Philip Sawyer, M.I.A. International Relations, Columbia University (1987)

哥伦比亚大学，国际关系专业(1987)

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As an additional remark about character vs scxt-based languages, Chinese pinyin forces one to understand everything entirely by context, which is a difficult thing in a language with so many homonyms. And simplified characters also lose so many visual clues to meaning, in addition to losing most of the “cultural” and historical roots of the language.

作为一个关于汉字和基于文字的语言的补充，汉语拼音迫使一个人必须完全通过上下文来理解一切，在一个有这么多同音异义的语言里，这是一个困难的事情。简体字也失去了许多视觉上的意义线索，同时也失去了语言的“文化”和历史根源。

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Vu Dang, Grew up before the country opened up to Coca Cola

在这个国家对可口可乐开放之前长大的

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We absolutely benefited from the French. Off the top of my head I can name the railway system, colonial architecture, the Indochina College of Fine Arts which produced quite a pleasant style, influence on our cuisine etc. They also provided the context and motivation for our people to shake off the traditional Confucianist system and strive for modern values, whether in support of or opposition to France.

我们绝对受益于法国人。在我的脑海中，我能说出铁路系统，殖民时期的建筑，印度支那美术学院的名字，它产生了一种令人愉快的风格，对我们的烹饪产生了影响等等。他们也为我国人民摆脱传统儒家制度，追求现代价值提供了背景和动力，无论是支持法国还是反对法国。

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The real question is whether we could have done better without our past colonial masters, which is hard to quantify by any means. However judging by the widespread opposition to French rule (of which communists were only a part), the resourcefulness of Vietnamese entrepreneurs under French rule, and the performance of Asian countries which managed to self-modernize, the patriot in me is inclined to say yes.

真正的问题是，如果没有过去的殖民主子，我们是否能做得更好，这是很难用任何方法来量化的。然而，从对法国统治的广泛反对(共产主义者只是其中的一部分)、法国统治下的越南企业家的足智多谋，以及设法实现自我现代化的亚洲国家的表现来看，我的爱国心倾向于说是的。

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Tom Vu, Grew up in Viet Nam during VN war

越南战争期间在越南长大

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Steinar Vilnes, studied Political Science & Computer Science at University of Oslo (2004)

2004年在奥斯陆大学学习政治学和计算机科学

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I think one way to answer this is to compare Vietnam to Thailand. Thailand is the country most similar to Vietnam that did not get colonized. Thailand today is over twice as rich and almost three times as rich per capita as Vietnam. Thailand was also able to bring the communist insurgency in their country to a halt by relatively peaceful means, avoiding the devastation that countries like Vietnam had to suffer though. Someone else mentioned culture, and Thailand have one of the most high profile movie industries of Southeastasia, with movies like Ong Bak enjoying a cult following worldwide.

我认为可以将越南和泰国进行比较。泰国是最像越南的没有被殖民的国家。如今泰国的经济总量是越南的两倍多，人均富裕程度几乎是越南的三倍。泰国也能够通过相对和平的方式停止国内的....叛乱，避免了像越南这样的国家不得不遭受的破坏。还有人提到了文化，泰国是东南亚最著名的电影产业之一，像拳霸这样的电影在全世界都有狂热的追随者。

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Chi Do, former Retired State employee at California Department of Public Health (1975-2002)

前加州公共卫生部退休公务员(1975-2002)

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I agree with Steinar Vilnes in his comparison between Thailand and Vietnam.

我同意Steinar Vilnes对泰国和越南的比较。

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I agree with Esteven Cuadrada that colonialism is BAD. Period.

我同意Esteven Cuadrada的观点，殖民主义是不好的。

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I agree with Đức Ngô that the French built mainly the churché (over the land previously occupied by Buddhist pagodas).

我同意Đức Ngô的看法，法国建造的大部分建筑都是教堂(而在此之前是佛教寺庙的用地)。

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About Anthony Grumbrell's comment on the introduction of the Latin alphabet by Christian missionaries, it must be added that this introduction cut the Vietnamese off their cultural past. That was one of the targets of the missionaries to replace the local cultures (in Asia, in Africa, in South America) by Christian culture. On the other hand, the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thailandese, Indian, … kept their writing systems and that didn''''t prevent them to progress, to have contact on an equal basis with Western ideas, culture, arts, …

关于Anthony Grumbrell对基督教传教士引入拉丁字母的评论，必须补充的是，这种引入切断了越南人与他们的文化过去的联系。这是传教士的目标之一，以基督教文化取代当地文化(在亚洲，在非洲，在南美洲都是这样)。另一方面，中国人、日本人、韩国人、泰国人、印度人……保留着他们的书写系统，这并没有妨碍他们的进步，在平等的基础上与西方思想、文化、艺术接触……

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My last comment: It seems the person who asked this question is trying to find some justifications for colonialism. But if you look at the history of Vietnam from the time the first Christian missionaries put their feet on Vietnam''''s soil until the nearly 100 years of French colonial domination, until the French war, until the American war, all you can see are the destruction of the natural environment and the the killing of human lives.

我最后的评论:提出这个问题的人似乎是在试图为殖民主义找一些正当的理由。但如果你看看越南的历史，从第一个基督教传教士踏进越南的土壤，直到近100年的法国殖民统治，直到法国战争，直到美国战争，你所能看到的只有对自然环境的破坏和对人类生命的杀害。

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Anthony Gumbrell, studied Liberal Arts at Palomar College (1967)

1967年在帕洛玛学院学习人文科学

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Eric Mankin, trick is not to center it on europe

诀窍在于不要把焦点放在欧洲

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The French left at least two cultural contributions that remain. One is the alphabetic writing system, based on Latin letters, the chữ Quốc ngữ; which replaced a series of adaptations of Chinese scxt which were difficult to learn and mediocre representations of Vietnamese. Portuguese missionaries began using Latin letters for Vietnanese, including tone markers. When the French took political control they continued developing chữ Quốc ngữ; which they later made compulsory ; it has since been fine-tuned by Vietnamese scholars.

法国至少留下了两种文化贡献。一个是字母书写系统,基于拉丁字母的chữ Quốc ngữ;取代了一系列难以学习的经过改变的中国文字，以及越南文的平庸表现。葡萄牙传教士首先开始使用拉丁字母来替代越南语，包括声调标记。当法国在政治取得控制权，他们继续发展chữQuốc ngữ;他们后来将其定为强制性的;此后，越南学者对它进行了微调。

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Second: bread. A French staple, not widely picked up by other Asian cultures, but now a part of the cuisine: the banh mi.

第二:面包。一种法国主食，并没有被其他亚洲文化广泛采用，但现在它已成为越南美食的一部分:越南法包。

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Đức Ngô
All countries which were invaded by the French in the past were poor, some of them Laos, Cambodia, etc., including Vietnam. France invade countries , they will be poor?? Why?

过去被法国侵略过的国家都很贫穷，包括老挝、柬埔寨等，还有越南。法国入侵的国家，他们会穷??为什么?

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When France invaded another countries, they only built some rubber plantations in there. Then they exploited labor of small country. When they lost the battle and they withdrew their soliders, they would destroy these plantations. In addition, what they built mostly was the church, it could be beautiful but it could not help the nations get out of poverty after war.

当法国入侵其他国家时，他们只在那里建了一些橡胶种植园。然后他们剥削小国家的劳工。当他们输掉了战斗，撤走了士兵，他们就会摧毁这些种植园。此外，他们建造的大部分是教堂，它可以很漂亮，但它不能帮助国家摆脱战后的贫困。

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越南人真的没有从法国殖民统治中获益吗?

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